Npower Unauthorised Direct Debit

[keithp]

I recently had a direct debit taken from one of my accounts by Npower. I have never had an account with this company so was understandably concerned as to how this company was able to take money from my Halifax account.

 

I have written to both organisations concerned who have effectively blamed each other without adequately explaining what happened and how. Npower have offered to repay the amount but have ignored my request for a consolatory payment (made via Energywatch). I requested such a payment due to the undue worry caused as a result of what I consider a breach of confidentiality and ultimately a 'theft' from my account. I also spent 20 minutes reporting the problem to Npower all at my cost having done nothing myself to instigate the problem.

 

Can anyone advise as to what action I might be able to take against either organisation? Should I close the account as I am now concerned that my account/personal details have been compromised?

 

Has anyone else experienced a similar instance?

[Guest HUSBANDKHAN]

this was taken without your permission and also breaks the direct debit gaurantee. your bank should refund this immediately. if they do not tell the bank you want to file a fraud claim. this will soon get them on your side. you should recieve a set of forms which you should fill in and send back . give them 5-7 days. if you recieved any charges these will be refunded to.

[keithp]

Thanks for the response, was beginning to think i'd raised a 'taboo' subject!

 

Yes they did refund the money but I remain concerned about how easy it was for the organisation concerned to get money from my account. Have written to Halifax and Npower and they basically blame each other.

 

I'm simply looking for an explanation, someone to accept responsibilty, an apology, assurance that similar mistakes will not occur in futrure and possibly some kind of compensatory/consolatary payment for the worry caused as a result of their actions! Not much to ask for is it?!!! Well actually i guess it is! :o

 

Was considering runing my complaint past the financial ombudsman if both organisations continue to pass the buck. My only concern here is that I have been to them before regarding another matter and found them to be pretty ineffective and to be honest downright unhelpful.

 

Any other suggestions? This must has happened to other people or am I the only one who is concerned about such breaches in confidentiality in these current times of ID theft etc.

[dw190]

Yes they did refund the money but I remain concerned about how easy it was for the organisation concerned to get money from my account. Have written to Halifax and Npower and they basically blame each other.

 

If you have not set up a DD for npower responsibility must lie with your Bank.

 

At the very least they have been negligent in allowing access to your account without your express written authority.

 

Write and ask them to make a payment to compensate you for your time and out of pocket expenses. Suggest a figure double the amount you feel is reasonable as they are sure half any amount you suggest.

 

Send it to your branch and copy it to the CE at their Head Office.

[buzby]

For info - how did the utility know your banking details? How were they aware of these details to take the money in the first place?

[ozzywizard]

My opinion is its Npowers fault.

 

They made the request to your bank for the DD order. The bank did not just send them the money.

 

See any company can now set up a DD over the phone, they do not need your signature but they must by law read out the direct debit guarantee.

 

So Npower either correctly or at fault asked for monies from your account. The bank assumes they have followed the set procedures.

However if in dispute the bank must give an imediete refund.

 

 

Direct Debit Guarantee

 

In future if there is a change to the date, amount or frequency of your direct debit, we will always give you at least 7 working days notice in advance of your account being debited. In the event of any error, you are entitled to an immediate refund from your bank or building society. You have the right to cancel at any time and this guarantee is offered by all the banks & building societies that take part in the direct debit scheme. A copy of the safeguards under the direct debit guarantee will be sent to you with the confirmation letter

[buzby]

My opinion is its Npowers fault. .

 

How can that be if the OP doesn't have an account with them? What's preventing any utility saying 'Mr X has an account with us and pay us the money' because we want you to, to your bank? That's money by deception, and far stronger than this laughable DD 'Guarantee'.

[ozzywizard]

Yes it is money by deception and is refundable straight away by the bank. But the deception os that of N powers side for taking it without the acc holders permission. Probably due to an advisor setting up DD on an account and entering a digit incorrectly.

 

What's preventing any utility saying 'Mr X has an account with us and pay us the money' because we want you to

 

Thats the problem, not enough to stop it happening but it does and can.

[keithp]

How did they get my account details? That's a good question! Don't know - when I phoned to query they eventually confirmed that I did not and never have had an account with them. Interestingly though they did at first ask if I had lived at a certain another address (interestingly, in my town) which I confirmed had not been the case. It sounded to me like they had an account in arrears from a customer who shared my surname. When raising this issue in a letter again both the bank and Npower denied knowledge of this. This makes me think that there perhaps was some liaison between Npower and Halifax and that it wasn't just an automated process where perhaps someone had pressed the wrong button and requested a payment from my account.

 

Both organisations have refunded the monies taken but I remain concerned about what I still consider a breach of confidentiality - proving it is I guess the difficulty here!

[buzby]

Yes - it could have been a coincidence, but it's one heck of a long shot. My view is that it is your bank that is playing fast and loose with your money, and irrespective of the fact they've refunded, I'd want an explanation as to how sugh an unauthorised debit could EVER be taken from your bank account without authority. The more noise you make, the more likely an honest explanation might be provided.

[keithp]

Thanks Okonski I think I'll take your advice and write another 'robust' letter along with the correspondence received from Npower and see what explanation they come back with.

 

Frankly I'm pretty amazed that a) banks can do this and b) it seems that there is little that can be done about what I feel is a massive breach of confidentiality in, as I said before 'an age of identity theft' etc. I really feel that such a breach should be worth a great deal more than the small amount they paid out from my account without my knowledge.

 

Thanks for the pointers anyway guys.

[buzby]

Don't forget to keep this thread updated so we know what's happening! The days of when they was mutual loyalty between banks and account holders has long gone. With the T&Cs rewritten so that they can disclose your banking details to CRA's was the final straw for me. The matress looks more secure than some of the 'products' they offer in the marketplace. And with head offices in Hong Kong, Shanhai and Spain - its little wonder we're hacked off!

[jdene]

Had the same thing with a false direct debit for car insurance from provident we did not recognise the reason for the direct debit so cancled it the following month it was set up again and Halifax allowed it so we got the details from Halifax for which company was setting up the direct debit found out then that it was provident and the car being insured was in west sussex where i have no relations or any dealings Halifax repaid the debits that had been paid but had put charges on my account for insufficient funds to pay this direct debit and even when these were proven to be fraudulent Halifax refused payment saying it was down to provident to pay them we contacted provident who said fine we will pay them back please provide details from Halifax Halifax refused to co-operate and provide the details Halifax also infrmed us that they could do nothing to prevent this happening again we requested a change of account details and were refused luckily we found this forum and took them for every charge ever applied but Halifax do not give a fig for thier customers if you are defrauded they blame you as buzby said its no wonder we get hacked off

they even told us it was £5 per sheet for statements or letters.

[buzby]

Haliufax BoS are in a world of their own - if jdene's situation happened to me I'd never enter into correspondence with Provident, simply advise the Bank that they owed me £XXX in incorrect charges caused by a fraudulent debit - and send a LBA to show I'm not taking this lying down!

[Mark_Blackpool]

I have had this happen three times over the years, e.g. direct debits being set up without my approval, sometimes more than once.

 

The Bank makes no checks as to whether the mandate they're being asked to set up is authorised by the customer.

 

It's basically the same as if they abandoned the need for you to key in your PIN number at the checkout, told all retailers to scrap that part, and just assume that the card is being presented by the card holder and is authorised.

 

I've recently moved to the Halifax and have already written to them once to ask them to guarantee me that no DDs will ever be permitted on my account because I never use them. They have not replied so I'm about to follow it up with a second letter by recorded delivery.

 

I don't see why you need to contact NPower. The Bank are in breach of duty of care here and you simply need to a) have them refund it immediately and b) guarantee you they won't do something so silly as to allow themselves to be defrauded next time.

 

Then leave the ball in their court. If they allow it again, you warned them: it isn't your money that's being paid out here.

[jimbetch]

Hi all, I had the same thing happen to me

 

From reading this thread it looks like setting up an unauthorized Direct Debit is a contrevention of the Theft Act Section 15A. Obtaining a money transfer by deception.

 

If this is the case, how is it covered in the Fraud act after the abolition of the deception offences in schedule 1.

 

In my case, the original offence took place in Sept 2006 and is therefore covered by the Theft act. I was alerted to it in Oct, but decided to leave the DDM in place as I was disputing the debt owed to the company which set it up and I didn't want to affect my credit rating or acrue any other charges if I was found to be in debt to the company.

 

So, an amount has been taken each month since, the last at the beginning of March. Are the debits Sept - Jan covered by the theft act, and Feb - Mar by the Fraud act, or do all debits obtained from an unauthorized DDM fall under the auspices of the act under which they were originally commited.

 

In effect is each debit a separate offence, or was there one offence (the fraudulent application to my bank for the DDM to be set up).

 

Is there any precedent for banks being tried in a criminal court for un-authorized DDMs. Under the Theft Act there is a maximun 10 year sentence for Obtaining a Money Transfer by Deception.

 

Quite interested in this one because a particularly nasty lender may have shot themselves in the foot.

[buzby]

I tried this 4 years ago, and it doesn't work! The type of money transfer the act specifically refers to is the typee that banks charge £25+ for, not the more mundane BACS. The police took the view that the it was a civil offence as the customer either authorised the DD originally, or could sue the merchant in the courts for the return of the funds.

[JonCris]

The police ALWAYS take the view it's a civil matter but they are wrong to say so (& they know it). To remove money from a persons bank account 'without their consent' is theft. Unfortunatley it's a sad fact that an ordinary member of the public making such a complaint is going to get the bums rush as the police can't be bothered.

[Guest louis wu]

Have just come across this thread and I'm gobsmacked.

 

Just when you think you have a grip of exactly how sloppy/crafty/incompetant the banks are, something else come along a plunges them to new depths.

 

Makes my blood boil. Cant wait for the whistleblow program, I'm convinced that far more 'depths' are going to be shown up.

 

Kieth, hope your still subscribed, as I am very curious if you got any kind of positive responce.

 

Louis

[ScarletPimpernel]

This has happened to me twice. On the first occasion, the RAC took well over £100 for membership; I was not a member. They refused to refund unless I proved I had not asked for the DD to be set up, despite the fact that membership was not in another name and the address was hundreds of miles away. The bank refunded under the DD gtee and subsequently the RAC wrote and apologised, citing a salesman's error in writing the account number. Quite how he also got the sort code and account name wrong too, and why the bank didn't check the signature was not explained.

 

On the second occasion I had a fixed monthly DD of £8 to London Electric (now Electricite de Frog or somesuch), which was for gas at my house (which I rarely get to, hence the low amount). I was on ops in Iraq, and received a letter saying that LE had taken, via DD, over £350 as an 'annual adjustment. I immediately wrote to both my bank and LE. LE clearly failed to read my letter, simply sending a standard 'phone our 0800 number' response. The bank refunded the amount under the DD gtee. I cancelled my DDs to LE, and told them I'd pay by cheque in future. They tried to set up new DDs many times over the next few weeks, which is apparently a common practice.

[buzby]

The other worry these days, is they don;t even NEED a signature, or to send your bank anything to prove their arrangement with you. They can 'assert' that you gave permission (even verbally) and the bank will accept that the name, account and sort code is enough proof that the DD can be set up. Incredible loss of control for consumers, but they still believe the mantra that it is somehow 'better' for their lifestyle.

[ghr265]

Direct debits are set up between the originator (eg npower) and the customer. The bank take on face value that the customer has given authority. The direct debit guarantee should refund you almost straight away but you might have to insist that the bank does it for you. In this case NPower are at fault but Halifax should have helped you out much quicker. Not surprised with these companies as I expect that neither are good at looking after their customers