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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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loan payments to cover bank charges


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Please help

 

Due to costly bank charges my finances were in tatters, I got called into my local branch for an account review. My spirits were down and my head all over the place due to my money problems, the banks advisor persuaded me to get a loan to sort myself out.

 

Now I've found out I can claim the excessive charges back I'm delighted but still annoyed that I've been paying loan repayments to the bank to cover the cost of there original charges!

 

Is there any way to claim part of the loan back as if the charges were not so high either the loan wouldn't exist or would have been smaller>

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Someone on the Lloyds forum claimed exactly that - the charges plus the loan. It was a while back but I will see if I can find the thread for you.

Please note that I am not a legal expert and all advice given is without prejudice and is purely my opinion only.

 

** Nationwide - £1821.15-PAID IN FULL - Aug 06 **

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Lloyds TSB - MCOL issued 09/03/07 - £2953 + costs - ON HOLD....

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Keep this updated as the same happened to me :x and i am plan to claim back the interest and the payment protection they talked me in to getting, obviously without their charges we wouldnt have needed the loan in the first place! i would be interested to hear what happens. good luck!:D

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If the loan is still outstanding, you should be able to claim for the entire amount required to settle the loan. While this includes part of the money you legitimately owe, you have a burden as a result of the charges that you would not otherwise have taken on. Beware that you might need to reject early offers of settlement if you want to try this though, as you will have to take it right to the wire to force that money out of them.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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I have rejected 2 settlement figures from Natwest and I have now completed my Money claim Online form and submitted.

 

I am still claiming for the interest on the loan as indeed without the Banks charges I wouldn't have needed the loan.

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I have 2 calims in where I am claiming back the interest that relates to the charges - cobbetts are arguing over the loan interest, must be due contact from them soon as I last refused 2 weeks ago.

 

Spoke to Cobbetts today and they are sending cheque for amount less the loan interest and applying for summary judgement for that part of the claim to be struck out. Guess it'll be off to court then!

 

Has anybody been paid this interest back - I can't find it anywhere.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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  • 1 month later...

Have received a letter from Cobbetts today, inside was a defence letter and also the famous CPR part 18. I will be sending them a letter back stating that these are intimidating tatics and also stating that I've sent the court a copy of the letter and CPR part 18 request.

 

I look forward to the next couple of days, I should receive my AQ from the courts.

 

I also find it poor that they are asking for a schedule of charges, considering I must have sent it at least 3 times to Natwest. I feel like being cheeky and telling them to contact Stuart Higley for them but I wont.

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Yes I claimed for the loan interest, I'm that annoyed that I have been paying a loan for the last 4 years, that in reality I wouldn't have needed to take out if the excessive bank charges were never placed on my account.

 

In some ways I would love the loan payments paid back to me as well plus the payment protection that I am sure was mis-sold to me! This maybe a bit tricky though and I cant see too many threads with people claiming money back from loans taken out to clear debt due to the banks charges.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Have received a copy of the allocation questionnaire that cobbetts have submitted to the courts. it reads.

 

Case Management directions cannot be proposed until the claimant serves a reply to the request for further information which was due on 22 December 2006. In light of this, the defendant may amend Defence or apply to strike out.

 

Had already sent cobbetts a letter stating I wont be filling the cpr part 18 request. Natwest already have 3 copies of my spreadsheet with list of charges.

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Usual scenario, don't panic your cheque wont be far away!!

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Yes I claimed for the loan interest, I'm that annoyed that I have been paying a loan for the last 4 years, that in reality I wouldn't have needed to take out if the excessive bank charges were never placed on my account.

 

In some ways I would love the loan payments paid back to me as well plus the payment protection that I am sure was mis-sold to me! This maybe a bit tricky though and I cant see too many threads with people claiming money back from loans taken out to clear debt due to the banks charges.

 

 

this is what i want to do... i was sold pp when i wasv a student with no real income..... and i want the intrest on my payments too, like you said if it wasnt for the charges...

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm getting a bit confused which maybe is no surprise considering cobblers are involved.

 

The court has issued a hearing date of the 5th March, but have asked that I do reply to the defendants request for further information. Looking back at what Cobblers have sent to me in the past, they have asked for a list of charges and the CPR part 18.

 

Last week I sent them another copy of the charges and explained I had sent Natwest a copy of these at least 3 times in the past, I also sent the court a copy.

 

I am now worried as do the court want me to answer the CPR Part 18, if so is it best that I do this but also send Cobblers a Part 18 request of my own asking for further information regards the charges?

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Hi

 

I have just stumbled across this and discovered the same has happened to me - being forced to take a consolidation loan to cover £100's charges in one month? Has ther een an update as to if you can claim the loan & interest? Cheers

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I'm getting a bit confused which maybe is no surprise considering cobblers are involved.

 

The court has issued a hearing date of the 5th March, but have asked that I do reply to the defendants request for further information. Looking back at what Cobblers have sent to me in the past, they have asked for a list of charges and the CPR part 18.

 

Last week I sent them another copy of the charges and explained I had sent NatWest a copy of these at least 3 times in the past, I also sent the court a copy.

 

I am now worried as do the court want me to answer the CPR Part 18, if so is it best that I do this but also send Cobblers a Part 18 request of my own asking for further information regards the charges?

 

Have a read here there is info on how to reply - is this the same court by any chance?

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Hi

 

I have just stumbled across this and discovered the same has happened to me - being forced to take a consolidation loan to cover £100's charges in one month? Has ther een an update as to if you can claim the loan & interest? Cheers

 

You could only claim the interest that related to the charges that were rolled over into a loan, and then they fight it every step of the way have a read here of where I ma up to may help.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/11431-nat-west-3-claims.html

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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My case is being held at Durham Court, I sent the court a letter last week asking if I was expected to answer the CPR Part 18. Have not had a response yet. Maybe I need to ring the court.

 

What exactly do I need to send to the court and cobbetts regards in preparation for the case on the 5th March? IE: Disclosure of documents.

 

When filing my POC on Money Claim was I meant to put my costs in or is that decided by the courts?

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The letter from the court says the following

 

1, The hearing of the claim will take place on the 5th March and should take no longer than 1 hour.

 

2, The claimant do file and serve a reply to the defendant request for information by 25th January 2007.

 

3, Disclosure of any documents by 8th February 2006.

 

The parties must file at the court and serve on the other party not later than 14 days before the hearing the following:

a, copies of all documents upon which they wish to rely.

b, statements of all witnesses, including the parties, upon whose evidence they wish to rely.

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HELP!!

 

Spoke to a woman at the court today as I was trying to find out if I needed to send the CPR Part 18, she told me she couldn't help as I was speaking to a court and not a legal team!!

 

I told her all I was after was an explanation to the correspondance the court had sent me, and what further information they wanted me to send to cobblers!

 

Do I give in to Cobblers request and send the CPR Part 18 back to them, I see there is a thread with the majority of the answers. does anyone have the answers to Cobblers CPR Part 18 4.1 & 4.3,

4.1 please specify the clause(s) pursuant to which the charges were applied:

4.3 please identify in each case the particular breach of contract (by ref to appropriate term(s) of the contract that the charge related to.

 

Also do I send Cobblers my own CPR Part 18 for them to answer?

Deadline given by the court fast approaching - 25th Jan!!!

 

Any help much appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

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