FCC Train fine..

[ABC12]

3 months ago i brought a ticket to go to my where i wanted to go i thought i brought a off-peak return but i brought a off-peak day return and came back the next day i was stopped and i didnt relieze what i have done untill the inspector said i had the wrong ticket in no way was i trying to do wrong and he said i made an easy misstake he offered me to pay for the right ticket but i did not have any money on me at the time i gave him my details and he noted in his book i did have a ticket but made the mistake of buyign the wrong one and the difference in price is only £3.50 he told me the letter would come in 2 weeks but took 3 months and i appealed my case but the case is still going to be going on i feel like im being bullied into paying a large amount of money for making a easy misstake i always have learning difficulitys and im only 18 i didnt understand what really going on i need help is there anything i can do about it i had no intension of doing wrong and they are making me feel like a criminal...

[Wriggler7]

Have you offered to pay the fare and a reasonable amount to cover the railway's costs?

[Old-CodJA]

3 months ago i brought a ticket to go to my where i wanted to go i thought i brought a off-peak return but i brought a off-peak day return and came back the next day i was stopped and i didnt relieze what i have done untill the inspector said i had the wrong ticket in no way was i trying to do wrong and he said i made an easy misstake he offered me to pay for the right ticket but i did not have any money on me at the time i gave him my details and he noted in his book i did have a ticket but made the mistake of buyign the wrong one and the difference in price is only £3.50 he told me the letter would come in 2 weeks but took 3 months and i appealed my case but the case is still going to be going on i feel like im being bullied into paying a large amount of money for making a easy misstake i always have learning difficulitys and im only 18 i didnt understand what really going on i need help is there anything i can do about it i had no intension of doing wrong and they are making me feel like a criminal...

 

This appears to be another example of failing to read what is printed on your ticket

 

A 'Day' return will say exactly that on it. If you had read and checked your ticket when you purchased it, you would have been able to query that and may have been able to change it or pay the correct excess fare at the first opportunity so as to make it valid. It is the traveller's responsibility to ensure that they have purchased what they thought they had,

 

The fact remains that when checked, you didn't have a valid ticket and did not have the means to pay the fare due. In those circumstances a traveller has no automatic right to travel on a train.

 

As has been made clear on other threads, a Magistrates Court will only look at the evidence to decide whether or not an offence was comitted as alleged by the TOC.

 

I suggest you do as Wriggler7 has suggested if you have not already done so. Harsh as it may seem to you, offering to pay the fare and reasonable costs incurred by FCC looks to me as though it will be a much cheaper option than taking the risk of a conviction, fine, costs and compensation if they proceed to issue a Summons.

[Stigy]

Don't get bogged down with the maximum sentences of a £1,000 fine and 3-months in prison, as this will never happen, certainly not in your case!

 

The outcome should it go to court depends on the offences being charged. If they are using the railway Byelaws (18.1 in this case), then the fine will be less than if they are using the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (section 5.3(a) RRA). The latter will atract a typical fine of around £350 depending on means, plus costs etc (this is the only offence whereby the MAXIMUM penalty if £1,000 or 3-months in clink, but it'll never happen). Unfortunately this conviction is also recordable on the Police National Computer. Byelaws attract a lesser fine (usually about £150 ish) and are non-recordable, although all cases will mean a criminal conviction if found guilty I'm afraid.

 

Given that you had not enough money to pay the fare at the time, it would be all too easy to charge the RRA 1889 offence, although it might be eaier to charge the byelaw as, although you didn't have money on you, I'm fairly sure it wasn't your intention to avoid payment, and you woukld have made this clear when questioned no doubt. The Revenue Protection Inspector should have seized the ticket you produced really, and presented it as evidence.

 

Good Luck!

[ABC12]

i have been given a letter that Frist captial connect are going to carring on my case i have rung them up to inform them that due to my learning difficulitys i misread the ticket of a machine a purcase the wrong ticket a off peak day return i brought insead of a off peak return and the inspector was ok with me paying the price diffence of £3 but i had no money on me t the time the women on the phone said i can provide a letter to prove my diffculitys witch i did from the dislyexic co-corditor at my college and wrote posted a copy of the letter and the details of what happen is it lucky that they will dismiss this case or carrying on with the case?

[dx100uk]

have you posted on this here before then?

 

if not

 

i would advise writing a grovel letter to them

offer to make all resonable cost payments and the fines payment.

 

before it gets to court

 

see the other threads in this forum

 

dx

[SRPO]

If you have learning difficulties, the authorised collectors had discretion not to charge a penalty fare but instead to charge the full single fare.

 

When the railway companies implement a penalty fare scheme they have to agree to operate according to a set of rules. I haven't (yet) managed to get hold of FCC's rules but they are based closely on the model rules published by the Strategic Rail Authority and available as Appendix D to the Penalty Fares Policy document on the Department for Transport's website (www2.dft.gov.uk\pgr\rail\legislation\pf\penaltyfarespolicyb.pdf).

 

Rule 8.5 of the Model Penalty Fare Scheme Rules states:

 

8.5 Authorised collectors will be given the discretion not to charge a penalty fare, and either

charge the full single fare in line with National Rail Conditions of Carriage or charge any

relevant discounted fare as appropriate under the circumstances. The instructions will set out

clear guidelines for using this discretion, which will be used towards:

...

• passengers who are not aware of the scheme because they are blind or partially sighted, are

foreign visitors who live abroad, do not speak English very well, or have learning difficulties;

...

Get someone at your college to write to FCC explaining that you have learning difficulties, ask for the guidelines which have been issued to staff as to how they are meant to deal with people with learning difficulties and ask them to reconsider your case in the light of your learning difficulties.

 

 

I dont think the OP has been issued with a Penalty Fare so your advice is irrelevant unfortunately.

[Old-CodJA]

Yes, it is clear from the OP that no Penalty Fare Notice was issued. The PF rules have no relevance where a prosecution for breach of Byelaw or statutory legislation are concerned. A Penalty Fare is a civil remedy. Prosecution for breach of Byelaw or other legislation is not.

 

Nonetheless, there are reasonable tests that should be considered in respect of the company Prosecution Policy. Grotesque's suggestion is a valid example.

 

It's always best to look at the correct set of rules before considering what might be done in any given case.

[Grotesque]

Exactly, I think discussion of Penalty Fares has been proved by now to be 'irrelevant'... it won't help the OP if they proceed with a prosecution will it....? And we don't help the OP with his case (which IMO deserves help) if we keep distracting / complicating / confusing the issue with PF BS.

[Old-CodJA]

Yes, exactly so.

 

Enchiridion's suggestion that representation in respect of learning difficulties might help in this case is a good one, but it is being given for the wrong reasons.

 

It has nothing to do with Penalty Fares Rules, but it is a consideration of the reasonableness tests that form a part of the general Prosecution Policy.

 

If the OP starts quoting the Penalty Fares Rules, FCC will be likely to reply saying 'This is not a penalty fare matter'. It is necessary to get the confusion out of the way.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Old-CodJA

[dx100uk]

the 'non-discussion' thread is located here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?311281-special-needs-discussion-thread-re-fcc-fines

 

dx

siteam

[ABC12]

the story is basically i got on a train with a ticket of for off peak day return i made a genuine mistake as i was ment to buy a off peak return i had no idea untill the next day when i was stopped i read the ticket wrong of the machine i purcased it off i thought i had the correct ticket, i had no intention of skiping the fair i only reliezed i had the incorrect ticket when i was stopped then he issued me with slip. after months whent bye i got letter from ffc to pled my case witch i did and after ringing them up explaining due to my learning difficultys i made this misstake the women told me to write another letter with proof doctors note or trained person which i did, i got proof from my dyslexia co-ordinator at my college after sending that off with sorry i didnt reiceve nothing back untill i got a letter through the court and the witness statment is wrong as the insepector (the witness) did not fill out the form at the time of stopping and made me sign a blank slip witch i didnt know what it was and he did not tell me and i could not read it and now the evience he is giving is a filled out note witch was never filled out when i signed it?

what shall i do plead guity as i didnt have the ticket yet still write a letter to the clerk to explain tht the evience was wrong and that i did make a genuine mistake and had no intention of skiping fair?

[Grotesque]

Hi Bruv! Sorry for your troubles.

 

FIRST THINGS FIRST: DO NOT PLEAD GUILTY UNLESS YOU THINK YOU ARE! Seriously.

 

Just to clarify, I take it you meant you had a day rturn but used iit the next day?

 

Welcome to the CAG bro!

[ABC12]

i think i may be guilty as i did have the wrong ticket it was just a mistake as i didnt have any intention in skipping the fair and it is correct i had a day return and came back the next day as i was ment to purchase a off peak return.

[SRPO]

I think there is more to this & therefore do not feel qualified to give an opinion, the only thing I will say is that byelaw 18 is a strict liability offence to which there is a very limited defence.

[ABC12]

thats the silly things there nothing more to this it just seems like there bulling me into paying alot of money and dont have any remorse for my sitution

[SRPO]

Its not for them to have any remorse.

[dx100uk]

three treads merged

 

please keep to one thread per issue

for the sake of past advice already given

 

dx

[Old-CodJA]

I think there is more to this & therefore do not feel qualified to give an opinion, the only thing I will say is that byelaw 18 is a strict liability offence to which there is a very limited defence.

 

One question stands out in my mind given that this is an FCC journey.

 

ABC12, where were you travelling from and to?

 

.

[ABC12]

it was too kings lynn from sandy via cambridge

[Enchiridion]

ABC12,

 

A couple of questions:

 

1. Was there someone selling tickets from a window at the ticket office when you bought your ticket or did you have to buy it from a machine?

 

2. What happened at Kings Lynn before you got on the train? Did you show your ticket to anybody?

[honeybee13]

Hello again Ench. You wouldn't be a friend of Draconian would you?

 

My best, HB

[ABC12]

i brought the ticket from the machine thast why i made the mistake of purcasing the wrong ticket as the ticket office was closed at the time

 

i mis read it and brought the wrong ticket without realising at this point

 

AT kings lynn i got on the train

 

the FCC stopped me - then i realised my ticket was wrong

 

i didnt have any extra money to cover the cost as i stayed the night around my girlfriends etc etc and thought id have no problems coming home untill he stopped me

 

i had no intention of skipping the fare and thats the evidence which is going to court which the FFC is using against me

 

he got me to sign a piece of papper i didnt know what it was

i was panicking and it was blank when i signed it

on the evidence it is filled out and under the section which says

" did you have any intention of skipping your fare today" he wrote Yes-

 

i had no money but thoses where not my words and he did not write that when i signed it

and i am denying this evidence

 

currently writing a letter to the clerk

 

where if feel it problaly best to plead guity as i did have the wrong ticket

and then with the sitution i have a chance of them dismissing the case...

 

my evidence is i had no intention of skipping the fair

i brought it from a machine misread it due to my learning difficulties

 

with evidence from my dylsic co-ordinator at my college

also the false evidence the ffc are providing and the fact that becuase i thought i had the right ticket

i had no money on me as i thought it was going to be a smooth trip home..

 

either ill get a fine or dismissle but i am not going to court as im pleading guilty

and it will just cost me an extra £25 to get there

 

so im trying to do the cheapest option do you think this is for the best?

Edited July 1, 2011 by dx100uk
edited for clarity - dx siteteam

[Enchiridion]

ABC12,

 

It appears to me that you have been unlucky. The ticket office was closed so you had to buy your ticket from a machine. You bought the wrong one. The first person to find out was the inspector. FCC have chosen to prosecute. I suspect that most other train companies would not. Given the way that the law has been written to help the train companies, I do not think that you have a defence. But you can ask the court to be kind to you (a plea of mitigation). That is where you can say:

 

 

1. You have learning difficulties.
   
2. The ticket office was closed so you had to buy your ticket from a machine. This is harder for you than telling the ticket clerk where you want to go and letting him sell you the correct ticket.
   
3. If you had been able to buy your ticket from a person, there wouldn't have been a problem.
   
4. You used up all your money in Kings Lynn because you didn't think you would need any on your return journey as you already had your ticket.
   
5. The ticket inspector asked you for the difference in fares, which was £3.50. If you had had £3.50 you would not have been prosecuted.
   
6. The witness statement is wrong. You signed a blank statement because the ticket inspector asked you to and you were panicking. He filled it in afterwards. You never intended to skip your fare. You made a mistake because you had to use the ticket machine.
   

The ticket inspector should have filled out the complete witness statement before giving it to you to sign. It's bad practice to fill it out afterwards but just about OK if it represents what happened accurately. But if it is wrong, it is false evidence. Submitting false evidence to the courts is a very serious matter, much more serious than not having the right ticket. If you are sure that it is wrong, you can go to the police and ask them to investigate (it's called "attempting to pervert the course of justice"). But think hard before you do this: do you want to get involved with the police?

 

Best wishes

[ABC12]

dose this mean i'll plea guilty and then after conviction they read out any following satements where the case could get dismissed or they come to there conclusion for the penltaly is that where i write i plea for mitigation in the court with the following points as i only have two options for conviction either guilty or not guilty and i will add the wrong evience from the FFC in may stament to the court but will not make it a police matter.