Suspended for gross misconduct Pls help

[stueyxx]

Without goin into to much detail I have been off work ill with a mental illness for past 5 month , all of which was supported by both my GP and the company's designated dr.

 

On my return to work I went through a phased return as advised by the company dr.

 

When I returned to work I clearly expressed my concern about missing so much training both on plant applications and h+s training as I know how fast things move forward on both accounts.

 

My line management agreed to this and before I returned to my normal position my line manager stated on my return to work interview form that I was to be brought up to speed with h+s changes and to refresh my knowledge of h+s .

Through a health + Safety refresher course

During my phased return to work my line manager stated that on the 2nd week I was to be trained in h+s as this is by company policy meant to be done periodically .

 

This was not forthcoming and left me with a distinct disadvantage on my return to my normal duties after 4 days I got suspended for serious breach of h+s causing damage to company property.

 

Basically I was driving a JCB loader shovel and whilst in operation the back axle snapped and subsequently broke the loading shovel.

 

I followed company reporting procedure by informing my line manager, he then took the lead in the incident and arranged for the shovel to be repaired.

 

The company are alleging that I breached H+S by me clearing up debris with the loading shovel which are outside my normal duties therefore I should have filled in a permit to work form. I have done this task on numerous occasions in previous years and have never had to fill out a permit to work so obviously the policy had changed during my time off.

 

I feel that if I had been able to update my existing skills on H+S as requested by myself due to been off ill for such a lengthy period that the mistake would not have happened.

 

There is a lot more about my illness that I could go into I.E I am currently under going physciactric therapy to assist and help me in my recovery, which the company as directed by there own designated dr. are meant to be assisting me in . My illness just doesn't get understood by alot of people and most people think it's just an excuse to have time off. I feel this is what the management team feel but can assure you that it is a living hell.

 

Just not sure how I should approach the inevitable disciplinary hearing ..being off work for so long and due to lack of training and the companys failure to stick to the return to work agreement that both me and my employer signed as what will happen over the weeks of my phased return.

 

Also due to my illness as with all mental illnesses you become extremely forgetful and the side effects of my medication clearly state that loss of memory can occur..

 

Maybe the blame should lie with management for not doing a risk assessment on me and maybe that after 6 months of not doing any work to allow me to run a plant where I am responsible for my own and other peoples health and safety that they have abused there duty of care

[rebel11]

Hi st

 

Welcome to CAG

The guys will advise as soon as they are available. Thread moved.

[stueyxx]

Ok thanks I have my fact finding interview this afternoon I am going to base my case on the company not being forthcoming in the refresher training I was promised . I know that my managers want me out but surely they must have offered me a re fresher course especially after being off for such a lengthy period. Its no coincidence that on my first day back on normal duties that I get suspended.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I am wondering whether your condition is considered a disability under the relevant legislation, and thus your employer should have made reasonable adjustments.

[stueyxx]

They will deem they have made reasonable adjustments by allowing me to do a phased return to work . As week 1 I was based in office working half contracted hours. Week 2 based at a local plant closer to home still on reduced hours.

Week 3 back at my normal plant but with no responsibilities

 

Then week 4 I began my normal duties albeit for just a few hours before I got suspended.

 

It's like they agreed to my phased return that got advised by there own designated doctor and aftr I had completed this phased return that they assumed I had some how miraculously recovered . Even the last doctors report advised that I should continue to receive management support for a further 3 month period.

[stueyxx]

......

Edited April 27, 2011 by stueyxx

[Atlas01]

hmn

 

moving away from the sickness part, if your company can show you undertook a role you were not trained or permitted to undertake which resulted in a "serious" H&S breach your in very hot water

 

Why i'm not concerned over the sickness part at the moment is because this could possibly also happen with someone who had not been off sick, the key is you refer to a "permit to work", please explain this more

 

If your going to defend this you will need to show that not only was it common place/normal before your sickness for you to operate machinery in the fashion you did and the employer was aware of this but that anything they built into this while you were off should have been made clear on your return

 

can you expalin more of the "permit to work" and also why you felt it was fine to operate the jcb?

[stueyxx]

hmn

 

 

 

moving away from the sickness part, if your company can show you undertook a role you were not trained or permitted to undertake which resulted in a "serious" H&S breach your in very hot water

 

 

 

Why i'm not concerned over the sickness part at the moment is because this could possibly also happen with someone who had not been off sick, the key is you refer to a "permit to work", please explain this more

 

 

 

If your going to defend this you will need to show that not only was it common place/normal before your sickness for you to operate machinery in the fashion you did and the employer was aware of this but that anything they built into this while you were off should have been made clear on your return

 

 

 

can you expalin more of the "permit to work" and also why you felt it was fine to operate the jcb?

 

 

 

[stueyxx]

Hi thanks for reply.

 

A permit to work is a legal document that you must sign and complete before doing any duties outside your normal every day duties to protect yourself from injury. Basically you document down any specific dangers that may occur during the task.

 

I have now had my fact finding interview and although I answered the questions as honestly as possible I really struggled with some to remember certain H & S ones.

 

Apparently where I drove tge JCB there was 240v cables exposed under some bushes.

 

They questioned me as to why I did not look at the electrical cable diagram that should be on the notice board.

 

Maybe a saving grace was that this diagram was missing off the notice board so how was I possibly going to be made aware of these cables. And also why was 240v cables just lying in undergrowth and not buried?

 

I know that if I had been given the re fresher course training then potentially this could have been avoided.

 

Having said that even the most experienced guy could have made this mistake because the underground electrical cable diagram was missing from the notice board where it is meant to be displayed.

[Atlas01]

Ah so it's some form of risk assessment, the notice board or lack of is also a good thing for you

 

To be honest i find it hard to advise further at the moment, whether i'm having a blonde moment or not i'm not sure but i can't get my head around how this is being operated, therefore i'll await the outcome of the fact finding hearing

 

keep us updated

[stueyxx]

Ok I will get back at some point next week. There just seems to be to many failings in this matter for me to be dismissed.

 

I openly discussed my intentions and we both planned to improve the area in question so was I write in assuming that this was permission to do the job?

 

The failure to have the underground electricalservice plan displayed on the safety notice board that would have shown underground services.

 

The fact that a 240v live cable was allowed to just nestle in the brambles and not be buried underground to meet the safety requirements also shows a major failing to keep employees safe.

 

As I have already submitted the fact that as documented and I have in writing that I should take in H&S training before resuming my normal duties.

 

The failings to go through the updates of the health and safety notices/ rules.

 

I don't know if it's just me being biassed but taking all this into account surely they will not be able to dismiss me

[stueyxx]

**sorry I openly discussed my intentions to clear the area with my line supervisor it doesn't say that in previos reply

[postggj]

Who told you to drive the loader

 

was it a manager

[stueyxx]

Who told you to drive the loader

 

was it a manager

 

Driving the loader is just part of my everyday duties and because of the size of the area there would have been no other option but to use the front end bucket. Yes during the discussion between myself and senior supervisor I informed him that I would be using the shovel.

[postggj]

HAS THE SUPERVISOR CONFIRMED THIS IN A STATEMENT

 

during the discussion between myself and senior supervisor I informed him that I would be using the shovel.

[stueyxx]

HAS THE SUPERVISOR CONFIRMED THIS IN A STATEMENT

 

during the discussion between myself and senior supervisor I informed him that I would be using the shovel.

 

Not to my knowledge he hasn't but if he is not being misled by senior management I do not see a reason why he wouldn't confirm this

[stueyxx]

Not to my knowledge he hasn't but if he is not being misled by senior management I do not see a reason why he wouldn't confirm this

 

It's now been 3 weeks and I still have not heard anything, this whole episode has made me very ill again , I have had to increase my medication, have more intense phyciactric help even if no action gets taken I will not be able to attend work.

Could I ask for a compromise agreement or would that be an admission of guilt on my behalf?

[stueyxx]

Well after 6 hrs today spent in disciplinary hearing there is still no decision . I am amazed that the company was stupid enough to falsify Health & Safety training certificates to try and prove I had training before the incident which was used as evidence against me. I called 2 witnesses that have demonstrated that as they was with me on days specified on my certificate of attendance training certificates , that have now proved that these training certificates to be falsified , as this allegation by me was made and the fact I have witnesses collaborating my allegation . I was amazed how the hearing wasn't adjourned whilst these allegations was investigated.

[papasmurf1cx]

Have you put a grievance in on all this? (I have only scanned previous post so forgive me if this is repeated) On your illness, have you had this for many years or is it a recent thing? The Equality Act 2010 protects people that have disabilities that have lasted 12 months, likely to last 12 months. The disability must affect the activities of daily living eg concentration memory, an ability to work. The fact that the employer has made you see their doctor who recommended a phesed return seems to suggect that they have discrimination issues at the back of their decision making.

 

You seem pessimistic about your chances of remaining in work. It seems to me that in these circumstances you should raise a grievance and allege discrimination, failing to make reasonable adjustments and indeed failing to observe their own policies. By raising a grievance in this manner you increase the anti by alleging discrimination (this is assuming you are covered by the Equality Act) If they then sack you whilst you have raised the grievance and discrimination then that is a detriment and potentially another act of discrimination ie Victimisation.

 

Have you union cover or Legal Protection Insurance for employment disputes? (check home contents where they often are included) If so then definitely get that grievance in. One word of warning, grieving about management normally ends up with the victim losing their jobs, it is very stressful and can lead to more illness, trust me we have been there. So think carefully what you want to do and whether it is worth the trouble.

[stueyxx]

Have you put a grievance in on all this? (I have only scanned previous post so forgive me if this is repeated) On your illness, have you had this for many years or is it a recent thing? The Equality Act 2010 protects people that have disabilities that have lasted 12 months, likely to last 12 months. The disability must affect the activities of daily living eg concentration memory, an ability to work. The fact that the employer has made you see their doctor who recommended a phesed return seems to suggect that they have discrimination issues at the back of their decision making.

 

You seem pessimistic about your chances of remaining in work. It seems to me that in these circumstances you should raise a grievance and allege discrimination, failing to make reasonable adjustments and indeed failing to observe their own policies. By raising a grievance in this manner you increase the anti by alleging discrimination (this is assuming you are covered by the Equality Act) If they then sack you whilst you have raised the grievance and discrimination then that is a detriment and potentially another act of discrimination ie Victimisation.

 

Have you union cover or Legal Protection Insurance for employment disputes? (check home contents where they often are included) If so then definitely get that grievance in. One word of warning, grieving about management normally ends up with the victim losing their jobs, it is very stressful and can lead to more illness, trust me we have been there. So think carefully what you want to do and whether it is worth the trouble.

 

Hi thanks for reply , I know this may sound strange after some of my earlier posts but it's now been 4 weeks and in this time I have been evaluating a lot of things and have come to the conclusion that I never want to work for these horrible people , they don't deserve my loyalty and commitment I have shown for past 8 years. As I am not looking to settle a dispute is it worth putting a grievance in ? Or is it something I should bring up at a later date ? I really do not see how they can dismiss me now for breach of health + safety , when the company have breached the H+S standards them selves by falsifying certificates to try and prove I had this training . So if they do not dismiss me I will resign and go for constructive dismissal, also if they are found to be neglectful in that they have abused there duty of care in failing to protect an employees mental health and a court deems it could have been avoided then they best start to worry as there is no limit to the compensation I can receive.

 

If it is summary dismissal, I will have 3 H+S training certificates with 1 witness statement and another included in minutes of meeting proving the company have falsified evidence and also certificates. Which I feel the health and safety executive will be interested to see.

[papasmurf1cx]

If you have mentally had it with this firm and you leave and then go for CD your chances of winning are much less. if you have resolved to take them to ET and endure the stress, more illness and possibly financial perils it would be much better to put in a grievavce and allege discrimination as I said, along with anything else you can think of eg the breach of H & S, falsifying documents (which if you could prove it against any one person is a criminal offence) . CD is notorious for being hard to prove because you are the one that left. Better for the employer to take the horrible actions.

[stueyxx]

Well it's now been 6 weeks from tge date I was suspended, 1 week on from disciplinary hearing and still no closer to any solution .

 

I have since found new employment and start on Monday but I am still going to fight to clear my name. If the company had not falsified evidence against me and my senior supervisor had not lied so much on his statements I would probably just let it go and move on.

 

I am determined to out these liars and if I can't do it I will go to HSE to investigate the fact that they have falsified training certificates.

 

I am now in no need to resign I will just let the company make the decision, then go for a compromised agreement.

 

Does anyone think I should wait or just go straight in for a compromised agreement before I know the outcome of disciplinary meeting. It's clear to see that the company have got themselves in a right mess.

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I'm not sure you can ask for a compromise agreement, can you? Has the company suggested that to you, because my understanding is that they have to offer? Sorry if it's in your thread somewhere, I was off the interweb for some time and am not up to speed with all the threads.

 

I expect someone will correct me if I'm wrong about the CA.

 

My best, HB

[stueyxx]

I have been CAB and the employment lawyer there has mentioned that a CA is an option but it will let them off the hook in respect to health + safety documents. As I said I have found employment so this is not about getting my job back or to some extent money , it's about proving that people have broken the law, and are in breach of my contract as it states in my terms that I must sign and date any training i have done and as I ain't done the training I won't have signed for these. Am just so proud of myself for refusing to lie down and take this, although my psychiatrist has helped me alot through this process and have had some great advice from you guys on here I am still proud that I had the balls to stand up to these lying bastardos and present my case so well .

 

I would love a letter of apology off them that would be the icing on the cake

[stueyxx]

I have been CAB and the employment lawyer there has mentioned that a CA is an option but it will let them off the hook in respect to health + safety documents. As I said I have found employment so this is not about getting my job back or to some extent money , it's about proving that people have broken the law, and are in breach of my contract as it states in my terms that I must sign and date any training i have done and as I ain't done the training I won't have signed for these. Am just so proud of myself for refusing to lie down and take this, although my psychiatrist has helped me alot through this process and have had some great advice from you guys on here I am still proud that I had the balls to stand up to these lying bastardos and present my case so well .

 

Today I got a phone call off work stating that they have come to the decision to give me a verbal warning ha ha are these guys for real? I have been suspended on full pay for gross misconduct and they give me a verbal warning .. Honestly you wouldn't think I worked for a global company.

 

They asked me to report for duty at 9am Monday morning , I will have to see my solicitor tomorrow and see what my options are as I will never be able to work with these people again