URGENT-Signed off sick with stress-employer wants me to attend a meeting tomorrow???!

[Brachetthecub]

Hello all,

 

I've been with my present employer since end of November. I am still in probation (6 months). I've recently had to take 2 short periods ( one of 3 days & one of 5 days) off work to care for my partner who has had mental health issues. I began feeling unwell (couldn't sleep, stressed, anxious, not eating) during the 2nd time off to car for my partner (who is now fully recovered and back at work) & went to the G.P. After asking me some questions he signed me off sick for 2 weeks with 'acute stress reaction'. I sent this straight away to my employer recorded delivery (this illness followed straight on from the 5 day period caring for my partner-I asked for a sicknote from day 1 -even though company policy is to self-certify for the sick pay scheme-I thought they may well have asked for a note for the 1st 7 days so asked for a sick note straight away) & have followed to the letter the correct procedure regarding calling in etc. I am also within my rights to 'take time off for dependents' as I had done (this is unpaid).

 

I received an e-mail from my employer asking me to attend a 'probation review' with my line manager & someone from HR. E-mail received Tuesday pm (they have apparently put this in writing-I'll receive this today)-to attend Thursday am-on the same floor as my work collegues (not even in a different office!).

 

Now looking at the company employment book I am now over the 'trigger point' for illness. At this point it can be reviewed & a plan to monitor further abscence can be put in place.

 

This is sending my stress levels through the roof & I feel its completely wrong. I phoned our employee advice line & was told it was completely reasonable to request the meeting was moved forward to when I was back at work & fit & well. I'll be contacting my G.P this am & feel sure they will give me a covering letter to this effect.

 

I know as I've been in work under a year & am still in probation my rights are not great. I also feel that my employer may be discrimanating against my time off to care for my partner (who is classed as disabled I've been told & I am her carer).

 

HELP! Has anyone got any ideas???

 

Just to clarify I've been signed off for 2 weeks from last Friday.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Brachetthecub
Forgot something

[padja]

Nothing they can do when you are signed off sick you are unfit for work, so can not enter the workplace. They can ask you to attend medicals to assess your health.They should arrange the meeting for when you return to work and it may be that its nothing to worry about they may be just trying to make sure that when you return to work that they have done everything to reduce any stress. If you are in a union then contact them.

[Brachetthecub]

Thanks for the prompt reply Padja. Do you think if i get a note from my G.P. saying I'm unfit to attend this will help?

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I'm not sure about getting extra information from your GP, as you already have a 'sick note'.

 

I agree with Padja that they should postpone the meeting until you are fit again. I would ask for that first and only ask for a letter from your GP if you need it in addition to the medical certificate. A caring employer should understand that a meeting at this stage will only aggravate your stress.

 

My best, HB

[Brachetthecub]

Again HB thanks for the prompt reply. Beleive it or not I work for a charity (!)...but the way they are being does not seem at all 'caring'. If my G.P. will type a letter stressing I'm unfit to attend surely this will help matters? Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[honeybee13]

Hi there. I wouldn't go for further letters unless they don't want to postpone the meeting.

 

I'm not that surprised that a charity is behaving this way. I would have been before I joined this forum, but we've seen it before.

 

Are you going to contact your employer today, do you think?

 

My best, HB

[Brachetthecub]

Yes I will do later. I need to also see whats in the letter they've sent which I need to collect from the sorting office.

[elpulpo]

Contact them and say you're not well enough to attend. Don't phone, email.

Charities. Humbug.

[honeybee13]

Contact them and say you're not well enough to attend. Don't phone, email.

Charities. Humbug.

 

Pithily expressed as ever, my cephalopod friend .

 

I agree with Pulpo, don't ring. It's too tough on you and you never know what they might say.

 

My best, HB

[padja]

I wouldn't ask for a letter from doctor, unless they insist on meeting, sometimes a phone call from Doctor direct to employers stops it dead, (our doc had to ring G/F's work when she had stress work suddenly couldn't do enough). unfortunately some charities forget they have to abide by employment law when they employ people (I speak as a former trustee of charity). Just get yourself better, and dont be afraid to go to GP and tell them what work is doing the GP may contact the employer on your behalf and actually sort it out. I agree with elpupo email them you then have a record of what happened

[whitecraig_wizard]

I would email them, advising them that you are unable to attend due to present illness. Under no account telephone them

 

Rules change today it is now a FIT note ! In theory your GP is supposed to be able to advise what kinds of support you may need to be able to return to work.

 

You could also ask for any Disability/equalities policy in place to be sent to you prior to any meeting aong with any witness statements to be relied upon.

 

Check out equalities.go.uk look for carers section. I would suggest that you are indeed protected by EA, but make sure it is relevant to your person circumstances, bring this to the attention of the union, most in my experience know even less than the employer about disability issues.

 

You have to differentiate between illness and disability. Lots of business, etc, use an automated scoring system for absence managment; all to often it fails too consider a disability, which can be discrimination in and of itself !

 

No harm in contact the gp and explaining what is happening and how it is having a detrimental effect upon you, remember if OH contacts your GP this information would be passed over ! Most OH are more aware of stress, DDA etc and its implications than HR.

 

 

Good luck

[Brachetthecub]

Thanks whitecraig. I now have the letter. The 'review hearing' is to do with my present illness & overall concerns about my attendence. My 'time off for dependents' was reported correctly. My partner is in receipt of disability living allowence so is classed as disabled. One of the points raised in the summary about the concerns for my abscence IS the 2 times I've taken off (unpaid) to look after her. Surely as a 'carer' this has some impact? I must stress my partner is now fit & well & back at work. Whats worrying me is that 'if i do not attend this hearing, it may be held in your abscence & you will be informed in writing of the decision taken'. Surely if a GP can confirm in writing that I am unfit to attend it's reasonable for them to re-schedule the meeting to when I'm fit & well?

[whitecraig_wizard]

First apologies, it's equalities.gov.uk.

 

It gives a clear example of a similar situation, it may well be worthwhile printing it off, copy for yourself, the union and some for the employer too. You should phone and seek advice.

 

You may have to remind them very politely, that if you are absent from work for a reason relating to illness, you are not covered by the employers Public Liability Insurance.

 

Also as you are unaware of what documentation that is intended to be relied upon and to enable you to seek advice from your union you ask that the meeting be adjorned until such time as you have had this opportunity.

 

Further, that you are someone protected by the EA and will seek a reasonable adjustment.

 

HR should be aware that you don't have a period of employment for Discrimination claims, it can be on day one, so you can go to an employment tribunal should you choose that option.

 

I would try to be positive, some don't understand what being a carer means, you just need to remind them of the protection you have.

 

How would this charity like defending an ET with all the possible publicity ?

 

Let the union do the talking, but don't expect them to know anything about equalities.

 

I am sure that there are lots of people here who can help and advise you.

[Brachetthecub]

Thanks....unfortunately I'm not in a union & the fact that I'm in probation does not help. My G.P has faxed through (which I feel is needed)-a good letter. I still fear I'll be sacked though & they'll have the meeting in my absence. Thanks all for your help....will let you know what happens. Not gone into the equalities side of things yet-will see what is said.

[whitecraig_wizard]

Whilst you are still within a probationary period and your employment rights are less, due to the length of service. NORMALLY

 

However, you arn't normal your a carer !!!!!!

 

Being tongue in cheek there.

 

 

The point is that it will never have occured to them that you are protected by EA as you care for someone disabled.

 

Normally, you would be unable to go to an ET however for discrimination cases there is no time barrier so you could if you choose go to an ET. You need to tell them this from the outset, it affects the way you are see and treated by the employer but also the impact that their actions could have externally.

 

You really need to differentiate between illness for yourself, which quite rightly they can discuss and disability matters relating to your caring role, which is a separate issue

 

I do know how tiring it is and it is one more thing you can do without, try to get someone to go with you to the meeting, have you approached a local carers centre for support/advice quite often they can have tie-ins with local solicitors.

 

Good luck, you could consider covertly recording the meeting, so that there is a record of who said what, a mobile phone ?

[Brachetthecub]

Hi....have already said that due to G.P's advice I won't attend tomorrow-asking for the meeting to be postponed until I'm fit (as G.P. said in the fax they sent him). Have already mentioned (& this was copied in to H.R.) that I do feel a bit discriminated against as the 'time of for dependants' was listed with the 'areas of concern'. We'll see what happens...! Again-thanks & will keep you updated.

[whitecraig_wizard]

Good, you do need to make sure that they understand that you are more than willing to attend a meeting once your GP has approved your return to work.

 

Ask for the information be sent to you now as it will help towards a positive and inclusive meeting !

 

 

If you do need to send further sicklines get your GP to mentioned work related stress.

 

It maybe if there is a charity related to YOH disability they may have a tie in with the Disability Law centre in London, check with CAB. Equalities and Human Rights Commission would be useful as should be able to help.

 

However, first and foremost needs to be your own health and well being,

 

Take care of yourself.

 

alan

[Brachetthecub]

Ok....G.P'S letter stating I'm not fit to attend the meeting faxed through day before meeting. As far as I'm aware the meeting has been put on hold but they have asked if it's OK for a member of their Occupational Health department to call me 'to understand more about what is going on'. I also mentioned briefly in the letter that I did feel a little discriminated against as the time I had to take off work to look after my GF was 'a cause for concern'. I mentioned that I felt discriminated against in my role as a carer. I have agreed to the Occupational Health team calling me.

 

So....looks like the probationary meeting is I hope on hold until I'm back at work!

 

Anyone any idea how to deal with the occ. health people? A bit concerned as they're obviously paid by my employer.

[elpulpo]

OH can email you. You're not well enough to be having phone interviews.

[whitecraig_wizard]

I would agree about emailing, unless you advise up front that you will be recording phone call, I would emphasis the stress that this is causing you, that you feel that it is unjustified because you were absent for a reason which is protected by the EA.

 

That your managment aren't being as supportive as you would have expected as they are aware of your circumstances.

 

Personally, I have found most OH very supportive, yes they are contracted by your employer, however they are still a Dr who owes YOU a duty of care, they ususally have a far better understanding of DDA than most HR staff. There sole concern should be enabling your return to work.

 

They will also liase with your own GP, perhaps you can let your GP know how you are protected by EA, as they will pass this on.

[Brachetthecub]

Thanks both! Whitecraig....the 'concerns' about my absence included one x 1 day off for sickness, my present 14 day signed off perion AND the 2 periods off looking after my GF.....so they are looking at all the absences. I think the fact that I went straight off ill after a 5 day period looking after my G/F is what they may be concerned about...but i did mention to them before I was signed off that looking after my G/F was making me anxious, not able to sleep & stressed. Sorry...can someone explain what DDA is?

 

Also....I've agreed by e-mail (& on a phone call to manager) that i'll speak to OH. Would I not appear to be 'uncooperative' if I changed this stance? Remember I'm still in probation.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Brachetthecub

[whitecraig_wizard]

DDA = Disability Discrimination Act.

 

This became replaced by the Equalities Act or EA, you can either go to Carers UK or try this adviceguide.org.uk/index/equalities_act_2010_carer.pdf. it is the official leaflet from the Goverment.

 

 

You are being treated less favourably because of you caring responsibilities.

 

If you weren't caring you wouldn't have been absent, therefore you wouldn't be having the meeting as you don't trigger the protocol. Most forget that disability and illness are NOT the same thing. We can all get the Flu BUT if you have MS you are more susceptable to getting the infection and also take longer to recover due to your disability, so if the average person was absent for 10 days but the person with MS is off for 60 days then a reasonable adjustment is required, you cannot treat them as having been ill with flu for that time.

 

It was called the BUT FOR test, but for you having this, would you have been absent. I submit in your circumstances BUT FOR you caring for your partner, a disabled person, you would not have been absent from work.

 

Sadly, sometimes you do have to very politely point out the error of their ways, it is done out of ignorance and stupidity, rarely malice, not that it makes you feel any better.

 

Hope that makes it as clear as mud ! Take care and find time to enjoy the nice weather

 

alan

[whitecraig_wizard]

You can call OH and ask if they don't mind, emailing stuff back and forwards as it is easier for you.

[Brachetthecub]

Thanks guys! Alan....unfortunately the 2 times I've been off ill DO go over the companys 'trigger' point. However....as mentioned earlier the 2 times off to care for G/F were mentioned as a 'cause for concern' so the obviously got that wrong. I must say my G.P. has been great about this-very supportive. I still feel they're being a bit 'quick off the mark' calling in OH-after all the G.P had signed me off. Oh well...will keep you all posted. Thanks again!

 

Whitecraig.....I suppose the 'BUT FOR' could be applied to why I'm off ill now. If it wasn't for the extreme stress/pressure of looking after my partner maybe I wouldn't have been off ill now?? Who knows....but if I wasn't off ill now then I wouldn't have been over the 'trigger figure' for absence. We'll see what happens...

[whitecraig_wizard]

I have found that having OH at meetings is a positive, they are more than able to reign in any excess by managment, they are there to help support you back to work, it is an extremely stupid manager who would choose not to follow their advice.

 

I would guess that it is a standard procedure that is being followed, OH will talk with your GP and in conjunction with them will work out the best way to support you at work.