HSBC d&G taking me to court with no CCA **Discontinued***

[TWW]

Any further tips Andy?

[AndyOrch]

Get to know the cases Waksman http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?272988-Waksman-ruling-and-how-to-defend-against-it and Carey

inside out and backwards:-)

[TWW]

Am already doing so. Do you think my amended defense is in a state to submit yet?

[AndyOrch]

Leave it has is, for now and we can tinker until Thursday.

 

I assume you have never received Notice of Arrears for this debt also

look up Notice of Arrears CCA2006 amendments, another reason as to why they cant enforce.

 

Andy

Edited July 12, 2011 by Andyorch
addition

[TWW]

Will do Oh wise one. I also need to give some thought to countering the lat minute faxed witness statement from Madge in accounts swearing that the world would have ended if a card had been sent out without a deed of eternal servitude signed in blood. Some good reasons why it should not be admitted at the last minute I think.

[AndyOrch]

As far as that WS is concerned it could have been the cleaner that drafted it:roll:

[Docman]

Will do Oh wise one. I also need to give some thought to countering the lat minute faxed witness statement from Madge in accounts swearing that the world would have ended if a card had been sent out without a deed of eternal servitude signed in blood. Some good reasons why it should not be admitted at the last minute I think.

 

...and large animals with snouts are reported to be flying around the outside of HSBC tower in Canary Wharf...

 

This is what HSBC say today what SHOULD have occured but in fact I doubt did so. Seriously you should point out that this is hersay evidence produced at the last minute from a witness who you have no opportunity to question and that therefore the witess statement should be ignored.

 

Nealy finished a draft statement/skeleton argument and will post later.

[Docman]

Hi TWW

 

I've knocked together some words based on what you have posted but can I correct some of the terminology used in your posts.

 

HSBC have NOT submitted an Amended Particulars of Claim (a) because they would need the permission of the court and b) you would have required to submit an Amended Defence, usually within 14 days. I say this because you make the suggestion that there have been Amended POCs, you could end up annoying the judge.

 

Instead, HSBC have submitted a witness statement that amplifies their original POCs and produces (exhibits) the documents they rely on. You could submit your own witness statement but as you will be attending court in person and are not producing any documents of your own, you can make your witness statement verbally. When the judge asks for your side of the argument, tell him what occurred.

 

Doc

TWW skeleton.doc

[AndyOrch]

Excellent Doc

 

Regards

 

Andy

[TWW]

You Guys are absolute STARS and had a got 6 more numbers last night we would all be rich.

[TWW]

Excellent Doc Doc but I'm confused by point 19. Way back when this kicked off I did ask for a copy using the standard £1 letter from the templates here.

[AndyOrch]

Hi TWW

 

Simply amend point 19 to state the request with the date and when and with what they complied with.

With regards to your amended defence submission you have to follow the order and date by.What does it state in the order?

 

Andy

[TWW]

Will do. I entered an embarrassed defence to their original POC. Since they were late I have not changed the defence, I just assumed that I had to. There has been no order from the court.

[AndyOrch]

Right i understand, you initially stated in your holding defence that you would submit a particularised defence should the claimant

clarify their claim.So its basically a skeleton you are preparing along with Docman not an amended defence.Why do you state it has to be submitted by tomorrow?

Do you mean it has to be ready for your hearing?

[TWW]

Yes I thought the other side had to see it before hand. Must admit I find all this very confusing. I'll stick to computer systems in future.

[AndyOrch]

Hi TWW

 

I've knocked together some words based on what you have posted but can I correct some of the terminology used in your posts.

 

HSBC have NOT submitted an Amended Particulars of Claim (a) because they would need the permission of the court and b) you would have required to submit an Amended Defence, usually within 14 days. I say this because you make the suggestion that there have been Amended POCs, you could end up annoying the judge.

 

Instead, HSBC have submitted a witness statement that amplifies their original POCs and produces (exhibits) the documents they rely on. You could submit your own witness statement but as you will be attending court in person and are not producing any documents of your own, you can make your witness statement verbally. When the judge asks for your side of the argument, tell him what occurred.

 

Doc

 

I should read more slowly:-D

[AndyOrch]

Yes I thought the other side had to see it before hand. Must admit I find all this very confusing. I'll stick to computer systems in future.

 

Dont assume anything TWW only do what the Court Orders.

 

Andy

[TWW]

Assuming make An ASS of U and ME. I should have remembered my basic sales training, never assume anything. So I just turn up and say my piece and wait for the other side to try to shoot me down?

[AndyOrch]

Preparation is key, have to hand your skeleton notes your argument the bases on which your argument relies upon.

They will just rely on the DJ accepting the reconstituted and balance of probabilities.( and of course that dynamic WS)

If you feel its not going your way on the above point then raise the matter I refer to re CCA 2006 Notice of Arrears (post 104) as to why they still cannot enforce

any agreement.That cant be based on the balance of probabilities, either they have complied or not, black or white.

 

Worse possible scenario, he is having none of it and wants you out of his court room, prepare an I&E but i hope it wouldn't come to that.

 

Best of luck with the hearing and update when you can.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[TWW]

Hopefully it will be trebles all round but we shall see. Got the CCA 2006 Notice of Arrears in hand will update when I return from the land of the Law.

[TWW]

The included the notice on a statement in Feb 2009. Shame.

[TWW]

Do you think it would be useful to include the following in my skeleton?

 

On Saturday 17 July 2010 I wrote to the claimant making a request for information under the Civil Procedure Rules. This letter was signed for at 8:16 20 July 2010 by a person named Whittle. In this request I asked for, amongst other things, transcripts of all telephone conversations between us. These I strongly believe would have clearly shown that I had made the claimant aware that no signed document had ever existed. The claimant chose not to comply with this request.

Edited July 14, 2011 by TWW

[AndyOrch]

By all means TWW any requests that have been ignored or not complied with must be mentioned.Thats why you retain proof of the request.

 

Andy

[TWW]

Do you think it would be of benefit to give the Judge a copy of the skeleton argument beforehand?

[AndyOrch]

Absolutely.