Mackenzie hall/BT

[paulh1818]

Hi I received a letter from muck hall last week with no details, just wanted me to call them to confirm it was me. I ignored them. Today I have another letter from them. It is for a BT debt from about 4 years ago. I was paying moorcroft £10 a month for a while but I stopped paying them when I hit financial problems. This was before I discovered CAG of course. What is the best thing to do in this situation? Thanks. Paul

[Bazooka Boo]

How much is the alleged debt with BT?

 

When did you last pay moorcr@p?

[paulh1818]

I still owe £130. I last paid moorcr@p In November.

[Bazooka Boo]

Did BT tell you they were passing it to this lot to collect on their behalf? Or did they just appear from nowhere?

 

How much was the payments you agreed to make? Did YOU decide the amount or were you told what to pay?

 

Have you tried to come to some arrangement to pay BT direct?

[paulh1818]

It's kind of a long story from about 4 years back (Way before I discovered cag). I'll try to make it short- We had to move house suddenely so I phoned bt and told them I needed to end our contract. They told us our contract hadn't expired yet so I'd have to pay for the remainder of the contract. Fair enough. They sent me a final bill of about £400. I called them to say I couldn't pay it all at once and could I pay it in installments over a few months. Yes no problem they said. Then I get a letter from credit solutions demanding payment. I called BT again to say what the **** are you playing at. They say whoever told me I could pay in installments shouldn't have and I need to contact the dca to arrange payments. I went to the cab terrified. Cab wrote out a letter to offer £10 a month. Credit solutions carried on sending threats. I go to the cab again and wait for about 6 hours just to be told the letters probably crossed. I went back and forwards to the cab like this wasting entire days waiting so I decided to just send them the £10. The threats stopped so we carried on paying. I got the debt down to about £280 then I get a letter from moorcroft and the debt is back to it's original £400! I called moorcroft and they happily accepted £10 a month and sent me payment books. I was paying up until around November when our finances took a turn for the worse and everything stopped getting paid. Thats when I found cag. Now it is with muck hall.

This was my first experience with a dca and it scared the living daylights out of us. I found the cab to be next to useless and I havn't tried to contact BT since nor have they contacted me. Sorry I know it's a bit of a rant but just typing this out makes me remember how scared my wife and I were at the time. I would have handled this differently now.

[Bazooka Boo]

OK, CAB are somewhat lame when it comes to offering "good sound" advice regarding debts.

 

Now you have explained it, it is much clearer now.

 

So £400 for early termination of contract fair do's. You paid credit solutions ltd (CSL) £10 a month, you paid £120 (12months?) Before Moorcr@p graced you with their presence demanding £400?

You paid Moorcr@p £10 a month (for how long?)

Now Muckhall are attempting to fleece you of your cash..!

 

Is that about right? How much did you pay Moorcr@p?

 

IMO, this has been allowed to go on for two minutes too long! The buck stops with BT, well & truly.

 

All you need send Muckhall is the following letter, all it is saying is that you do not recognise, nor do you acknowledge and alleged debt to them or anyone they care to represent.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?428-General-debt-letter-if-you-know-nothing-of-the-debt

When you send it, you MUST ask from the post office counter for "Proof of posting", you can send it 2nd class if you wish, but without that proof of posting you will not be able to legally prove that they have received your letter.

 

Whilst they are running round trying to find someone who can actually read and decipher what it means, get back to BT and start their own internal complaints procedure, ensure you tell them from the outset that it is a formal complaint, and keep everything in writing, by all means fill in their online complaints form, BUT send a hard copy of that exact complaint to them in the post also.

 

Your aim is to get BT to take this account back, and then to take responsibility for their untrained member of staff who gave you incorrect advice, as a goodwill gesture you would like them to reduce the amount you owe and pay it back to them at a rate you can then afford, if you can't clear the balance remaining, OR allow you to pay them at a weekly/monthly rate you can realistically and comfortably afford, also if there has been any adverse data added to your credit file, then they are to correct this and it should reflect the payments or be marked as satisfied.

 

BT Correspondence Centre

Providence Row

Durham

DH98 1BT

 

Please include your phone number, email address and account number. We'll try to reply within 10 days. (If you email us we can normally respond within two working days.)

 

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact_email/c/2702,2704,2712

 

And if after complaining to BT they still don't want to know, ask them if that is their final response? If it is escalate your complaint to OfCom below.

 

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/contact-us/

[paulh1818]

As always good advice. Thank you Bazooka. Yes thats about right. Unfortunately I threw away all letters regarding this out of sheer anger and frustration so I am no longer sure of the exact figures but I do know that It wsas exactly 12 months I paid CSL then they passed the debt to moorcroft at the original amount and completely disregarded what I had paid to date. So I should roughly only owe 10 quid now. I have paid moorcr@p about £270. I'll get those letters out first thing. Cheers. Paul.

 

ps. Should I mention In the complaint letter to BT that one of 'their' dca's have done me out of £120? I was just going to give in and accept it but why the hell should I???

Edited March 22, 2011 by paulh1818

[NailPost]

If you find you have overpaid then I would expect BT to refund the difference and pay interest and an appropriate amount by way of damages. Once this episode is over I would start complaining to all these firms' regulators.

[FORMISTER]

BB I recognise your comment you made regarding advice given on CAB and it is valid to some degree, but rest assured Paul1818 the majority of experience Caggers don't advise people to ignore their debts. We may some times advise ignoring threats that are unfounded, but never ignoring a debt completely.

 

BB has given you some sound advice there, it is always better where possible to deal with the OC.

[paulh1818]

Hi formister, thanks for your input. I was just saying that my experience with the cab was totally unsatisfactory. Also, I am not ignoring this debt. Far from it. I just don't see why I should have to pay the remainder of this debt when I have already paid this amount once already. I will take Bazookas advice and write to BT. Thanks. Paul

[FORMISTER]

My appologies, especially to BB, I totally misread his post and thought he said CAG and not CAB, so I completely withdraw my comment. I thought it was a swipe at some of the gun ho advice that some less experienced Caggers have made on this site regarding ignoring debts.

 

Sorry

[Bazooka Boo]

Ha ha ha, FM that is classic, should ave gone to specsavers!!

 

Made me smile that has...

I totally misread his post and thought he said CAG and not CAB

No need to apologise, we've all done it, and I still probably do do it!

[FORMISTER]

It's Stevie Wonders' fault, he was proof reading for me

[Bazooka Boo]

It's Stevie Wonders' fault, he was proof reading for me

 

Thats OK, I've just done exactly the same thing on Halibutts post!!

Maybe the DCA's have infiltrated CAG and are putting out X-ray lasers to make us all blind and give out duff advice...arguing amongst ourselves??

 

I can still find the fridge though!

[paulh1818]

BT phoned regarding my complaint. My wife took the call as I was out. They told her once the account is allocated to a dca it is out of their hands and their is nothing they can do. Also that the dca is within their right to pass it on if they wish.

[Rayne]

i thought that was only the case if the account had been sold?

[paulh1818]

Right. So are they basically saying they have sold the 'debt'? I will get back to them to ask if this is their final response. Should I also ask them to confirm who 'owns' the account? Thanks.

[Bazooka Boo]

BT are wholly inaccurate there! If they use a third party DCA then they (BT) "ARE" very much responsible for their chosen third parties actions, who ever told you that it is out of their hands once they pass it on, is probably the very same person that said you could pay this by instalments!

 

However IF they have sold this on to a DCA, then granted, it is out of their hands, but your point and issue with BT is that it should never have been passed over to their tame DCA, hence the reason for your complaint.

 

Go back to them, tell them that you are not happy with their response and you are now escalating it to the second level of their complaints procedure, OR, if this is their final response on the issue, to send you a deadlock letter to that effect, where you will then escalate this complaint and their incompetence to Ofcom to investigate.

 

Ruddy chancers.

 

You can tell BT, that it is YOU the customer who has the rights, not some tin pot uneducated DCA, and if they don't start taking responsibility for their own actions, then you will be only too happy to make this public and sully their already bad reputation further.

[NailPost]

I wouldn't phone BT either, you'll just another call centre jockey who'll tell you something he overheard in the pub. Write to them and tell them that if you start making complaints about their debt collectors you'll be including them in it too. If they have soold on this alleged debt then they should have told you about that. Its called a notice of assignment. Take a firm line on this with them, they have more money to waste than ypu'll ever have to spend.

[paulh1818]

Okay thanks guys. I'm not gonna waste this sunny sunday afternoon thinking about it. I wasn't planning on phoning them anyway. I'll get a letter on the way first thing though. Thanks again.

Paul

[paulh1818]

Hi, I'm just trying to put a letter together so I thought I'd run by you guys first to advise if I need to add or remove anything. I admit I'm not the best at writing letters if there is no template.(Maybe I should work for a dca! )

 

''Thank you for your phone call on 16th April 2011 regarding my complaint.

 

During the phone call I was advised that 'Once the account is passed on for collection, it is out of our hands'. I would like to point out that I have not and never have received a 'notice of assignment' regarding this alleged debt. Therefore, the account remains with BT and any collection agency is simply acting on the behalf of BT. This also means that for a second time your staff has given me incorrect advice as BT are very much responsible for any company who contact me to collect the alledged debt.

 

My complaint is regarding the fact that my account with BT should NOT have been passed on for collection. A member of your staff advised me that I could pay BT in installments to clear my account. My account was then passed on for collection and I had to suffer threats and intimidation from your chosen Debt Collection Agency because of the incorrect advice given by your member of staff.

 

I am totally unsatisfied with your response in this matter and I would like you to take responsibility for the actions of your staff. I wish to escalate this matter to the second level of your complaints procedure. I would like a written response indicating your stance on this matter. If this is your final response, I request that you send me a 'deadlock' letter to the effect, where I will then escalate this complaint to Ofcom to investigate.''

[Bazooka Boo]

Edit to suit if you like.

 

Dear Sir/madam,

 

Thank you for your phone call on dd/mm/yyyy regarding my complaint with yourselves.

 

Once again a member of your staff has been giving me some questionable advice. Namely that, and I quote "Once the account is passed on for collection it is out of our hands".

 

For the avoidance of doubt are you informing me that you have no responsibility for the actions of your chosen collection agency? And you will not be held responsible for their actions?

I simply find that statement derisory and would like to think that your reputation is paramount, simply washing your hands of anything your chosen collection agency says or does speaks volumes of how you treat customers.

 

I also not that you have failed to inform me that you were using a third party collection agency, so I am aware of who I should be paying, if at all, and not simply expected to hand over money to the first agency who demands it.

 

The sole fact that this has arisen because of your initial employees failure to advise me correctly, stating that I could pay the account off by monthly instalments, when I can't, then you passing it to a collection agency with out correctly notifying me of your intent, and now washing your hands of a problem you caused and expect me to clear up.

 

You are strongly advised to take ownership of this account, and act responsibly, for the avoidance of any doubt, NO money will be paid to a third party collection agency until you have first investigated why I was initially told I would be able to pay via monthly instalments, why you then deemed it necessary to pass it to your collections agency, and why you believe that after having done so, you can wash your hands of the mess you created?

 

It would be very much appreciated if this could be addressed promptly, and that any collection activity you have started be halted whilst this is investigated.

 

I reserve the right to forward this onto Ofcom, the OFT, trading standards and the media.

 

I look forward to a prompt response.

 

Yours Sincerely

[paulh1818]

Thank you so much Bazooka. Much better than my attempt!

[Bazooka Boo]

After a while it becomes second nature, and you can still improve on that! Grab a dictionary and look up some very big words, insert them every third or fourth word, and hey presto, they have to give it to their parents to decipher!

[Revenant]

After a while it becomes second nature, and you can still improve on that! Grab a dictionary and look up some very big words, insert them every third or fourth word, and hey presto, they have to give it to their parents to decipher!

 

 

Parents = plural = both

 

Do you think that's actually possible where most DCA's drones are concerned BB ? ?

 

R