County court summons for 16 year old debt **Claim discontinued**

[Gibble]

As this started so long ago I can't remember some of the dates for stuff.

 

In approx 1995 I had a loan from Midland Bank with PPI. I was made redundant but they refused to pay out on the PPI for months which caused the debt to go up due to extra added interest. They eventually paid out for 12 months worth of repayments but wouldn't pay any more as they said that the PPI only covered 12 months. I wasn't informed of this at the time of getting the loan. I had a heated meeting with the bank manager to try to deal with it as they had added my overdraft to the loan amount and were adding charges and interest all over the place that I couldn't make head nor tail of. After repeated requests for a total breakdown of all the charges and interest that they simply refused to do I walked away from it all and ignored any further contact with Midland.

 

The debt was passed to Phoenix at some point a few years later. As I was struggling to find any work I was on benefits and agreed to pay them a token gesture of £1 a month until I found work. Due to ill health I remained out of work for a long time. The payments rose to £5 a month until I found this website in 2009 when I stopped paying them based on the advice I found on here.

 

I have had many letters from various debt collection companies and solicitors who all, funnily enough, have the same address in Southend but once again I ignored them.

 

Today I have received a county court summons from phoenix.

 

Could someone please help me and run through what I should do and what letters I should send.

 

I have 14 days to respond to the court. Does that give me enough time to send the letters for S.A.R. etc? I'm sure phoenix won't have the CCA from midland as I've asked for it before and been ignored.

 

Any help would be much apprciated.

 

Thanks

 

G

Edited March 5, 2011 by Gibble
typo

[harrassed senior]

When they added the overdraft to the loan, can you ever remember signing a new Agreement? If not, then personally I would think that that alone would make a defence. However, have you ever applied for a copy of the original loan agreement? It might also be worth sending a SAR to Midland (not sure who they are now!)? This would give you the paperwork to see what charges and when charges/interest etc. was /is being added.

 

What does it say on their Particulars of Claim.

 

With the answers to the above those with more knowledge will be able to start off their chain of advice.

[247orbital]

I'd contact the court directly to see its a legitimate claim.

[Gibble]

Midland bank are now HSBC.

 

It's definitely a real county court letter. The return address on the envelope is po box 300, northampton, nn1 2tx.

 

I should also correct the title as it's a county court claim form not a summons.

[harrassed senior]

What does it say on the Particulars of claim and did you ever sign a new Agreement to add the two amounts together?

[Gibble]

Particulars of claim:

The Claimants claim against the defendant Mr "Gibble" the sum of £xxxx.xx due under the following account xxxxxx/xxxxxxxx £xxxx.xx

 

I didn't sign anything, they just added my overdraft to the outstanding loan amount.

[ukaviator]

A bank overdraft is a limit on borrowing on a bank current account. With an overdraft the amount of borrowing may vary on a daily basis. A bank loan is a fixed amount for a fixed term with regular fixed repayments. The interest on a loan tends to be lower than an overdraft. However they should not have bundled this together. You should request all copies of your paperwork they hold on you as they are to be presented in court.

[Gibble]

I have no idea where to start with this.

 

I've registered on the moneyclaimsonline website but there's no password on the forms I was sent so I can log in to respond. Also, on the sheet headed "Responce Pack" it says there should be notes attached to the claim form telling where and when to send any forms but I don't see any of this information anywhere.

[cerberusalert]

Moved to the Legal Forum.

[debbbbsy]

Hi,

 

You must send phoenix's solicitor, who have instigated this claim a CPR 31.14 ( Not a SAR).

 

Request a copy of the agreement for the account they refer to in the claim.

As they are not the original creditor, a copy of the Deed of Assignment & Notice of Assignment.

A copy of the Default Notice.

Statements for account xxxxx/xxxxx to substantiate the amount being claimed is correct.

 

THey ahve 7 days to respond.

 

In the meantime you must go online & acknowledge the claim. I think you then have a further 21 days to submit a defence (But please double check this). How they respond, will determine your defence.

[Gibble]

Thank you but how can I go online to do this with no password for the moneyclaimsonline website?

 

Are there any template letters I can use for the solicitors? I have no idea what a CPR 31.14 is.

 

To be honest I have no idea about any of this. It's all really confusing.

[Guest]

gibble

it would be a further 14 days. so, 33 days from the date of issue.

you could also try for an extension as per civil procedure rule 15.5

imo

[Gibble]

I'm sorry but I'm just getting lost here.

 

Can someone please start from the beginning and explain simply what I am supposed to do?

 

I can't go online to do anything as there is no password on the front of the claim form even though it says in the notes on the reverse of the claim form that there should be one. It also says there should be notes telling me where to send any forms but once again there are no details anywhere.

 

I don't have a scanner so can't scan the form to post on here but it certainly looks like a proper claim form from southend county court.

[Guest]

gibble

see some of the 'sticky' threads

for eg http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159445-Getting-Them-To-Reveal-Their-Vitals.-Using-CPR-31.14-to-Your-Advantage

[cymruambyth]

This the letter you should adapt to your circumstance

 

 

Dear

Sir/Madam,

 

Re:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. You failed to comply with that request.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment

 

3 the default notice

 

4 the formal demand letter

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have

a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation

to recover and preserve such versions which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time, you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

 

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully

Edited March 5, 2011 by cymruambyth

[Guest]

..............but it certainly looks like a proper claim form from southend county court.

 

oh ok! so, they have not issued the claim through MCOL bulk ie Northampton?

[Gibble]

Thank you cymruambyth I'm just reading that sticky thread now.

 

Ford, it appears to have come from Southend county court although the return address on the envelope is po box 300 northampton and the frank on the envelope is from Newcastle.[/url]

[Gibble]

After reading this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159445-Getting-Them-To-Reveal-Their-Vitals.-Using-CPR-31.14-to-Your-Advantage all the way through it would appear that I can't use this CPR 31.14 letter as they don't mention anything other than an account number in the poc. The poc simply says: "Particulars of claim:

The Claimants claim against the defendant Mr "Gibble" the sum of £xxxx.xx due under the following account xxxxxx/xxxxxxxx £xxxx.xx" That's it! no mention of any credit agreements or anything, just an account number.

[debbbbsy]

The Claimants claim against the defendant Mr "Gibble" the sum of £xxxx.xx due under the following account xxxxxx/xxxxxxxx £xxxx.xx" That's it! no mention of any credit agreements or anything, just an account number.

 

The POC are vague, and on this basis alone should be challenged.

 

You can use CPR 31.14.

 

They refer to an account number. So must produce an agreement with this account number on it.

They refer to a specific amount in the claim. so must provide statements to support this amount.

The DCA(Phoenix) who have instigated this claim, are not the Original Creditor, so must provide proof that they have bought this debt legally, and are entitled to initiate proceedings. Thus, you request the Deed of Assignment & Notice of Assignment.

For the OC to sell the debt in the first place, they should have issued you with a Default Notice. Once you fail to comply, then they can Terminate the account & sell it on.

 

These may not have been mentioned in the POC, but the fact is, they should have. The OC and the DCA must follow the correct procedures before issuing a claim. It is your right as a consumer, to ask for proof that this has been done.

 

Do the CPR 31.14 request.

 

If they fail to respond, you will then submit an "Embarrassed Defence", pointing out that the POC are vague & fail to disclose any cause of action.

 

At this point , you will automatically recieve an Allocation Questionaire from the court, you will then submit a "Draft Order Directions".

[Gibble]

Thanks Debbbbbsy This is quite difficult for me to get my head round but I'm getting there. Thankyou for your help.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Gibble

[Gibble]

I've changed a few bits of the CPR 31.14 template letter, does this look ok to send or should I alter anything else?

Dear

Sir/Madam,

 

Re: Claim number xxxxxxxxx

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On 05/03/2011 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Southend county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of statements and the agreement relating to the account number mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. You failed to comply with that request.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the deed of assignment

3 the notice of assignment

 

4 the default notice

 

5 the formal demand letter

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time, you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

 

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully

[Gibble]

Should I actually sign the letter or just print my name? I've read many posts on here saying it isn't wise to sign as DCA's have been known to lift the signature and create fake agreements with it.

[jdes26]

What is the debt

when did u last make a payment?

Is it statute barred

[Gibble]

It's a mixture of a bank loan that should have been covered by PPI and an overdraft that they combined. all dating back to 1996. I have looked back through old bank statements and I have made payments to MCS Ltd, Rockwell and Moorcroft. At one point there were payments going to both Moorcroft and Rockwell at the same time!

 

I last made a payment in March 2009.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Gibble

[jdes26]

This is what I would do

I would send off the CPR letter but make sure someone looks at it here first before u send

request credit agreement imediately and sar for all details on loan

ppi?

So u had it but didn't pay out

if that's the case it mayb missold

charges on account they can b claimed

how much is debt / loan and what do u owe

your in the right hands here

don't worry and hit the red triangle for site assistance on Cpr letter

I can't for u as I'm posting on iPhone

jdes