Jacob bailiff over council tax

[neolight90]

I had an old council tax bill that I was unaware about come back to bite me

 

I arranged with the council to pay 10 pound a week it was about a 1000 pound in total I got it down to 520 before I lost my job

 

It took me a while to get a new job but in the meantime I could not afford the the weekly repayments for a while. I started paying again but it was too late it went to Jacobs bailiffs

 

I still continued to pay the council but this time at 20 per week to catch up

I even tried speaking to the council but they keep saying it's in the hands of the bailiffs deal with them you can't decide what you pay it's up to them

 

Still paying the bailiff left a letter hand delivered saying I owe 524 even though I had been paying and it was down to 450 this was end of jan

 

Nothing happened until 2nd march where he knocked at my door I answered and he handed me a letter I said I was paying the council he said he didn't care and left sitting in his car outside. He came back after 10 minutes and placed a notice of distress for my car and then left

 

Since then my balance with the council is 390 which I got the money together from family and paid to the council. The council informed me there is 218 bailiff fees I need to pay them, I asked what for they said 3 visits a levy and for a van on his last visit

 

First off he came in no van just a small VW so that's a lie for a start

 

I want this all over but I'm not paying for made up fees I'm jobless at the moment and my wife is just out of hospital after a c section and we have 2 babies to care for we don't need this. The council have been so hard on us as I only get 80 a week hardship

 

He is coming back tomorrow for my car and to try to get in my house. I won't let him and I have moved my car far away as I need it for follow

up hospital visits for my wife and for work when I find some

 

My wife is scared I can't sleep about this I have no more money to give now

 

Please help!

Edited March 4, 2011 by neolight90

[Thegreenpimpernel]

If I've understood you correctly, it seems:

 

1)You have paid the value of the liability order to the council directly

 

2)You have paid nothing to the bailiff.

 

3)It is claimed there are £218 in bailiff fees to be paid.

 

4)You are aware of him visiting twice. The end of Jan and the 2nd of march.

 

5)He has levied on your car.(on the second visit)

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Sorry,and

 

 

6) You are currently unemployed? on benefits?

[Thegreenpimpernel]

In the mean time, i can tell you there will be some fees to pay, but there should be some scope to reduce them.

 

It seems you would certainly owe;

 

A first visit fee £24.50 and a levy fee of I'd guess around £30 (too lazy to work it out!)

[neolight90]

Yes to all of those

[Thegreenpimpernel]

I'm hoping someone who knows about enforcement while on benefits will come along and tell us about the options regarding deductions from benefits instead of bailiffs.

 

But until then, in the absence of a better plan. I would send them the £24.50 plus correct levy fee (can't find the sheet now!, but something like £30), and contest the legitimacy of the additional charges.

 

The distress notice is dated the 2nd March yes?

 

Does it, or any other accompanying paperwork state the fees / total due at a particular date?

 

What date did you hear from / ring the council when you were told about the £218 fees?

 

EDIT - When i say 'send' them the money, I mean pay it as cash with receipt over the counter to the council, or by card online and print the receipt.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Thegreenpimpernel

[dx100uk]

urm

 

that doesnt sound right

look at the topof this forum for the stickies on what he can charge

 

and the comment that the council have paid the bailiff and you've got to pay them the fees is not correct either.

 

he cannot gain entry forceably either

 

as for the car, again something is not right here

 

he cant have a van fee as he has not levied either on possessions, you dont need a van to take a car that he had not even previously levied on.

 

the troops will behere inthe morning

 

but i dont thinkyou've much to worry about

 

what also strikes me is no mention of you knowing there is a LOin force?

did you & when did you get the LO papers?

 

dx

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Mr bailiff is due the first visit fee (Jan), and a levy fee the day he slapped the distress notice on the car.(2nd March)

 

He would have to have returned another day with the intent to remove the levied goods for the 'van fee' to apply. It's an 'attendance to remove fee' but they normally call it a van fee, even if it is an (invisible) tow truck they are referring to.

 

But if he returns in the meantime, with an (invisible) tow truck, before the legit fees are settled, he probably will be able to legitimately charge the new 'van fee'.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

To be extra clear.

 

No, he can't force his way. And he may not find your car, but if he turns up before you pay the legitimate fees, you will owe a 'van fee' as of his next visit.

 

Hopefully someone with the fee scale to hand will confirm the exact amount.

 

Pay it as early as possible tomorrow.

 

Subject to confirmation of the above assumptions, whatever fees they subsequently try for, we will be able to show the amount due under the regs (i.e the Liability Order value plus legit. fees) was satisfied as of the moment of your payment. Any subsequent visits would not be lawful / chargeable.

[neolight90]

To be extra clear.

 

No, he can't force his way. And he may not find your car, but if he turns up before you pay the legitimate fees, you will owe a 'van fee' as of his next visit.

 

Hopefully someone with the fee scale to hand will confirm the exact amount.

 

Pay it as early as possible tomorrow.

 

Subject to confirmation of the above assumptions, whatever fees they subsequently try for, we will be able to show the amount due under the regs (i.e the Liability Order value plus legit. fees) was satisfied as of the moment of your payment. Any subsequent visits would not be lawful / chargeable.

 

The council told me yesterday when I settled what fees the bailiffs have added no sign of them so far today. Although he did say when I spoke to the bailiff last he is sending it back for committal?

 

On the 2nd march he gave me one letter saying bill was now 640 up from 520. Then walked to his car came back and posted the notice of distress with my car on inventory

 

It says outstanding 422 levy and walking possession fees 41 other fees 67+110 balance 640

 

I have no more money and a new baby and injured wife to care for I don't need this hassle from them

[hallowitch]

Template Letter to Request Account be Referred Back to Council

 

With thanks to Tomtubby

NOTE: This letter can be adapted to suit your own circumstances and could be used to advise the company that you are in receipt of income support or income based jobseekers allowance and that you wish for your arrears of Council Tax to be deducted at source from your benefits and requesting that the account is returned back to the local authority. You should provide a photocopy if possible, of either your benefit book or confirmation of your entitlement from the benefits agency.

 

 

—

To: Bailiff Company

Date:

Dear Sirs,

Re: Account reference.

I refer to your letter dated

(enter date)

informing me that your company have been instructed by

(enter local authority)

to enforce a warrant/liability order etc against me, in respect of arrears of council tax.

In your letter you state that you will be visiting/returning to my home to

(seize/auction etc my goods.)

unless full payment of

(enter amount)

is made by return.

The purpose of this letter is to advise your company that I am in receipt of

(income support/jobseekers allowance)

and am enclosing as proof, a copy of

(payment book/letter from benefits agency.)

I am informed that deductions can be made directly from my benefits to pay my arrears of council tax. This is provided for in the Council Tax (Deductions from Income Support) Regulations 1993.

For this reason, I would like to request that this account be referred back to

(local authority)

so that the relevant forms can be completed.

I am also aware that once deductions are in place, Regulation 52 of The Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992 expressly forbids any enforcement action.

As I have now made you aware of

(my/our)

circumstances, and provided proof, if your company continues with enforcement action, I will consider making a formal complaint about the bailiff’s conduct to the County Court

Could you please confirm safe receipt of this letter, a copy of which is being sent to my local authority.

 

 

Yours Faithfully.

[neolight90]

Do I still need to do that letter even though I have paid back the council in full now

[hallowitch]

Do I still need to do that letter even though I have paid back the council in full now

 

no sorry i thought you were still paying this

[neolight90]

no sorry i thought you were still paying this

 

Oh right no problem. What should I be doing now as my mInd set is they are getting nothing as the council and I are square but I can't keep my car parked away forever

[hallowitch]

you will have bailiff fees to pay however the amount depends on when they were charged send this to Jacobs

 

phone the council and ask how much was outstanding against the liability order on the 2nd march (this is the date of the levy) what date was the liability order was paid in full

is your car on finance HP is it old try and find out the approx value of it

 

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

PT

[neolight90]

you will have bailiff fees to pay however the amount depends on when they were charged send this to Jacobs

 

phone the council and ask how much was outstanding against the liability order on the 2nd march (this is the date of the levy) what date was the liability order was paid in full

is your car on finance HP is it old try and find out the approx value of it

 

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

PT

 

The car is really old on it's last legs brought it 2 years ago for 1200. I have moved it away from my home anyhow

 

What will happen if I don't pay the bailiff fees?

[Thegreenpimpernel]

The legitimate bailiff fees effectively became part of the Liability Order as they were accrued. So technically the LO isn't settled.

 

Until it is settled, they can come back and add a 'van fee' like i said before.

 

Someone (not HW) seems to be hinting my advice was incorrect.

 

It wasn't.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

It's good they are sending it back for committal, but if you don't pay the legitimate fees you could ultimately be hauled before a magistrate, who will order you to pay them.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Send Hw's letter. We need to be 100% sure this levy was applied on the 2nd March, not in January. Can you confirm it has the 2nd on the distress notice.

 

It seems clearer from your post #10 that he certainly added £120 'van fee' on 2nd March.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

I would like you to try something, that can only help if there is a dispute later.

 

Can you hand deliver a letter to the council stating:

 

That I ------------- hereby tender the full amount due under the Council Tax Enforcement Regulations. That sum being the total of any outstanding liability Order plus the legitimate enforcement fees accrued to date according to the regulations. Total £--------.

 

Technically, you will have fulfilled your obligation under the regs.

 

You don't have to hand over any money, unless they accept on the spot. But the tender doesn't count if you cant pay it (about £55 we reckon) when / if they accept.

[wonkeydonkey]

Hi

 

If you do not pay the bailiff fees they will remove your car for auction. Please don't think that by letting them do this you no longer owe them any thing, what usually happens is the car is sold at rock bottom price, there will be charges for removal, charges for storing it before auction,, auction fees etc etc Unless your car fetches enough to pay all these charges and the original amount owed then you will be back to square 1 and the whole process starts again.

 

I have read your post but struggle to get everything clear in my head....until you get the standard info from the Council it is hard to work out if you have actually paid the full amount due as given on the LO. If you have satisfied the order then the dispute is over the Bailiffs fees. He cannot persue the levy on your car for his fees alone as the levy was made to satisfy the LO.

If you send for the breakdown of his fees you can then identify those fees that are legally applied. To get any other fees the baillif "thinks" he is due he would have to take you to Court and they do not like that idea as they then have to justify the charges claimed.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

"If you have satisfied the order then the dispute is over the Bailiffs fees. He cannot persue the levy on your car for his fees alone as the levy was made to satisfy the LO"

 

Yes, but as is often confused on this site, the legit. fees effectively become part of the Liability Order. The fees only become a separate issue if the council are dumb enough to discharge the liability order without the bailiffs getting paid.

 

In this case, as most others they have not!

 

On the contrary, they have specified that they are still due.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Thegreenpimpernel

[Thegreenpimpernel]

The law clearly specifies that the amount due under the regs, i.e. the sum the bailiff is empowered to collect by means of distraining goods, is the sum of the liability order and the fees accrued according to schedule 5(?)

 

Advice to the contrary is wishful thinking, and could cost the debtor his car or the addition of legitimate 'van fees'

[neolight90]

The law clearly specifies that the amount due under the regs, i.e. the sum the bailiff is empowered to collect by means of distraining goods, is the sum of the liability order and the fees accrued according to schedule 5(?)

 

Advice to the contrary is wishful thinking, and could cost the debtor his car or the addition of legitimate 'van fees'

 

I rang the council today as the bailiff company won't talk to me. Council said I owe them nothing as far as they are concerned it's over

[hallowitch]

I rang the council today as the bailiff company won't talk to me. Council said I owe them nothing as far as they are concerned it's over

 

 

This is not the case your council are full responsible for all actions of there contractors including any fees charged

 

Jacobs collect in my area (north wales ) what council are you dealing with