Lloyds TSB : Lloyds taking me to court?????????? *** Discontinued ***

[foxyflugel]

HI Dotty

 

Is it 28 days from the receipt date (apparently they allow 5 days for receipt) or 28 days from date on form?

[foxyflugel]

Just spoke to the court and they said it's classed a 5 days after date on form for service - making it 21st Feb - so I have until 21st March to file my defence. They said that I can agree with **** sols to extend the date - but this doesn't stop them applying for a judgement - whether I've got it in writing or not - but I could appeal asking why they have done so after agreeing to extend the defence date. They said to make it formal through the courts and pay £40 for an extension period!! Opinions please.

[foxyflugel]

Spoke to **** solicitors who have agreed to extend the date. I have requested this in writing which they have agreed to do. So do I trust them not to try and get judgement or not??

[foxyflugel]

Anyone??????????????

 

Many Thanks

 

Foxy

[Dotty50]

Hi Foxy,

 

Get SCM to email their confirmation of the extension so that you can advise the court asap.

 

Having read back through your thread, there are some experts here helping you, I can only help a little from my very limited experience.

[foxyflugel]

Thanks Dotty - I was just panicking a little what with the timeframes etc.

 

Well, true to their word (unbelievably) I have received the confirmation letter today of the extension to 22nd April. So, I was planning on faxing it to the court tommorow when I can get access to the fax machine. Will this be ok??

 

Many thanks

 

Foxy

[Dotty50]

Perhaps fax it then call to confirm their receipt and ask if you should post one too.

[foxyflugel]

I have now received the docs under CPR 31.14 request. Nothing much actually - a couple of print outs from the telephony dept and print outs from the credit scoring dept.

 

However, they have sent me an application form - which is my writing and sig - but the name and address in the box most definitely is not my writing - which I find strange.

 

Many thanks

 

Foxy

Doc2.pdf

Doc1.pdf

[foxyflugel]

This is the application form

Doc3.pdf

Doc4.pdf

[foxyflugel]

doc 4 is here again as the other one wouldn't work for me.

Doc4.pdf

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Foxy,

The app form is very hard to read. Can you pick out any discrepancies in the T&C's?...wrong dates, wrong APR etc? Any indication it was NOT on the back of the application?

 

Elsa x

[Undercover-Elsa]

Erm...just noticed that form is stamped as received in 1998.

Wasn't this account from 1989????

 

 

Also, as I recall you moved house after taking this account out....

is the handwritten address correct for where you were at the time?

 

If not it raises serious issues with this form!

Edited April 1, 2011 by Undercover-Elsa

[foxyflugel]

Hi Elsa and thanks for your reply.

 

The T&Cs are very small but I haven't scrutinised them as yet tbh.

 

On the app form it is definitely my writing and signature and the address is the correct one for 1989 - but it is most definitely not my writing.

 

On the app form on the bottom left - it says about a credit card a/c number and I have written in a number - I am wondering if this is when I went for the Personal Advance (can't remeber what the other credit card was called) and that is why it is 1998 and not 1989.

 

Based on these docs - what would my defence be? - that I signed an application form and not an agreement? It is hard to tell if the T&Cs would have been on the back of the doc.

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

Hi Elsa

 

Just looked again and if you look on the top left of the 2nd page - you can see the top right of the 1st page - so this is a microfiche copy I believe which is why it is so hard to read and has faint white lines through the text. Also on the top of the page it says Conditions of use - it does not list any charges (only for using it abroad and saying what the minimum payment is). It also says Credit Limit - we will set the credit limit for the account from time to time and notify you. The rest of it is just the usual bumph - card payment protection, additional card etc.

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

Also, still scrutinising - my 2 christian names are in my writing - but my surname is missing. In the top box someone else has written my name and address (but they have missed out my middle initial and/or name.

 

It also says at the top (don't know if you can read it!!) Credit Agreement regulated by CCA 1974. By signing this agreement you will be confirming that the information given below is true and complete and that you are not less than 18 years of age.

 

Foxy

[Undercover-Elsa]

Not sure what this means...did you take out another card in 1998 from which you paid off the balance of the original card which was then terminated?

 

Elsa x

[Undercover-Elsa]

I don't know if those T&C's COULD have been on the back of that application form....theres a cut off DD mandate at bottom, but on the bottom of the T&Cs is important info which you would lose if you cut the DD form off and sent it in.

 

 

As it stands the front of the app form has no APR or interest rates, repayment details etc that I can see. On it's own, unenforceable I would say. However it does refer to conditions of use on the back.

Yhe question is, are the T&C's supplied the correct ones?

If the enclosed T&Cs WERE on the back, and are correct then afaik it would form an enforceable agreement. Hopefully ohers can pick some holes in it.

You need to go over them with a fine tooth comb Foxy, checking for discrepancies.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Undercover-Elsa

[Lou]

I am about to proceed down the CCA and SAR request route and am in the process of getting together and sorting old paper work for several CCs. I think it is still early days as I am only getting phishing letters and propose to try to fend everything off until I am prepared. My SB dates are quite close and I wondered if by requesting CCAs and SARs it would reset the SB time clock?

 

All my CCs are pre Con Cr Act 1974 as well so I would imagine CCAs would be hard to come by. When I get the different cards sorted and start to be proactive on the forum should I start threads in relavant C Card heading so as not not to interrupt the flow of excellent advice?

 

Thank you all for your generous sharing of knowledge - it is so appreciated.

[foxyflugel]

Hi Elsa

 

The T&Cs are really small and there is a fine white line running through most of the lines. Should I write to them and ask that they provide a legible copy? also ask them to confirm that the t&cs are on the back of the document? Do you normally do that ? and would they oblige?? tbh - they look like microfiche copies as they are seperate pages and you can see the top of the 1st page on the top of the second. Any suggestions on how I find out if they were one document? (if mine are not suitable). Yes the 1st card was closed and transferred to this one.

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[nicklea]

If the enclosed T&Cs WERE on the back, and are correct then afaik it would form an enforceable agreement.

 

As undercover-elsa says, unless you show that those terms were not the then current terms I would suggest that is an enforceable agreement.

 

I would suggest one avenue would be if you could show that the APR at the time was different to that showing on the t and c's as in the Harrison v Link Financial case.

[Dotty50]

Hi Foxy,

 

There is nothing to stop you writing back and asking for a legible copy, which is what they must supply but I doubt if they would be able to produce anything better.

[paulwlton]

If the prescribed are correct and were contained overleaf then the agreement is enforceable. However, the document is illegible so unenforceable until they rectify this.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Can you actually read the one they've sent you, Foxy?

If so, can you make out the APR and interest rate?

Have you received the full SAR yet..most specifically statements showing the interest rate the month after the card was issued in 1998?

 

Maybe a CPR Part 18 (and with ref to CPUTR 2008?) querying whether the terms and conditions enclosed were the ones on the reverse, and whether they hold a copy of the original document as opposed to a microfiche copy?

 

Certainly point out that the copy they've sent is illegible if you can't read the prescribed terms etc and therefore unenforceable as Paul says. Are they also different in content to the recon they earlier insisted was an accurate set of T&C's?

 

Elsa x

[citizenB]

Responding to pm.. I dont think I can offer any other advice than you have been given foxy.

 

You really need to go through the documents with a fine tooth comb to see if you can spot any discrepancies.

 

[nicklea]

As undercover-elsa says, unless you show that those terms were not the then current terms I would suggest that is an enforceable agreement.

 

I would suggest one avenue would be if you could show that the APR at the time was different to that showing on the t and c's as in the Harrison v Link Financial case.

 

If you look at the terms is says that the apr is 13.9 for purchases, 15.7 for caseh advances and a balance transfer rate of 9.9.

 

Now, if you have any evidence that those rates were not being applied when you opened your account, it follows that these are not the terms from your account. It was this that won the case for Harrison I mentioned above