Lloyds TSB : Lloyds taking me to court?????????? *** Discontinued ***

[gh2008]

2. I send the CPR 31.14 request immediately - can someone indicate where the additional info mentioned above needs to go please.

 

When a person in litigation mentions a document in a statement of case, defence or a witness statement etc they 'disclose it'

 

Any documents that have been disclosed can be relied upon in heir argument - but those not disclosed cannot be (except with permission)

 

Once a document has been disclosed you may request to inspect it or, as long as you are willing to pay reasonable copying charges, to be sent a copy of it.

 

**** have disclosed

• an agreement
  
• statement(s)
  
• Default Notice
  
• a Formal Demand
  

 

As this claim was no doubt issued via the 'Bulk Centre' copies of these documents which would normally be attached were not, therefore you can request copies of them via a 'CPR31.14' request together with an agreed extension of time to submit your defence.

 

In the template there is a list, just add or remove items as necessary.

 

and lastly ........ relax ......... we've all been there and although it really isn't nice when it's happening to you, it's not worth getting stressed about - it's only money and there really are more important things in life .....

 

keep smiling

[Undercover-Elsa]

Spot on

[Guest]

.........Thinking out loud here.... maybe this would be better as a para added to a request under CPR 18?.... as it's asking for further clarification of docs. already sent.

 

and, any reply to an 18, must be made with a 'statement of truth'

[PriorityOne]

and, any reply to an 18, must be made with a 'statement of truth'

 

Abso....... lutely!!!

[paulwlton]

Taken from Carey.

 

 

part) by Mr Uff and Mrs Thompson then he is at a disadvantage should he wish to challenge whether he made a properly executed agreement at all. I do not agree. First,*this point only has real force if the Proof Purpose underlays s78 and I do not think that it does. Second, it assumes that there is no obligation on the debtor to make out at least some sort of positive case as to improper (or non-) execution of the original agreement. If he does and for example asserts positively that although he has been using a credit card agreement for years he never actually signed an agreement,*or one that complied with s61, the creditor may well have to try and find the original in order to deal with that allegation. (I deal further with the absence of such positive allegations in relation to s61 when I consider below the Applications.) But that tells one nothing about the scope of s78;

[foxyflugel]

Hi again.

 

The court claim is dated 16/2/11.

 

I will reply to it tommorow online and state that I am to defend all of the claim.

 

I have prepared my SAR to go to DSAR unit and the CPR 31.14 to go to **** solicitors (from the letter posted above) and have also added as doc number 2 - Monthly statements.

 

I have managed to scan the agreement and attached it.

 

Many thanks

 

Foxy

Agreement...pdf

[Dotty50]

Hi Foxy,

 

So that is a copy of your CCA from 1989?

 

How come they can quote a future date (section 5.4) of October 2010?

 

They must have had very good crystal balls!

[Undercover-Elsa]

Too right, Dotty, or a Tardis

Oh joy!!!!!

Not an APR in sight. ("Interest rate will be on your statement")

Wrong scale of charges

Erm...the address at the end...LLOYDS TSB (they didn't merge with TSB till 1995 FFS)

 

Even Justice Sir Hilary Bankfan-Debtorhater would struggle with this if they brought it to court.

 

Did they manage to get your name and address in 1989 right, Foxy?

 

Elsa x

[foxyflugel]

HI everyone

 

SAR and CPR 31.14 posted recorded delivery today - check!!

 

I am now going to acknowledge the court papers and take long deep breaths -

 

Elsa - I still live on the same road - but at a different number since 2001 - so - no - they have my present number on the agreement not the one in 1989!!!

 

I left in 2002 - and they certainly had merged with TSB much earlier - it was in 1995!!

 

I just can't understand why they would take me to court if they haven't got my original agreement - or is this just me 'basic' thinking

 

Will see what they come up with next and many thanks for all your help.

 

Foxy

[paulwlton]

May be of use.

 

Paul

 

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?166878-My-Mrs-v-Barclaycard-***WON***/page2

[citizenB]

Hi Foxy,

 

So that is a copy of your CCA from 1989?

 

How come they can quote a future date (section 5.4) of October 2010?

 

They must have had very good crystal balls!

 

Erm, dotty.. it is October 2008 ? Even so, if the card was taken out it in 1989 then those terms werent from inception.. proof that they were after 2006 is the charges @ £12.00

[Dotty50]

Quite right CB!

 

Sorry, Foxy my mistake but still a relevant date which could not have applied on the original agreement

[foxyflugel]

Hi everyone

 

Received a letter from them basically saying they've got my request and thanks for the 10 quid - will start to collect info straight away.

 

However, it does state:-

 

I am unable to provide a copy of the original loan application docs due to the amount of time that has elapsed since inception of the accounts. blah blah....

Whilst the bank is obliged to hold application docs for a reasonable period of time, I do not feel that it would be realistic for us to have retained these since your accounts were opened some 11-22 years ago.

 

Why could they not just put that in a covering letter with the SAR docs?? They also acknowledged the fact that they have to provide them within 40 days.

 

Foxy

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hehe they've probably tried to find them already without success otherwise how would they know? Good!

 

 

Elsa x

[gh2008]

IMHO, I would wait until at least the CPR request was answered and then you would be able to compare the docs and then any discrepancies between the docs could be be used to rip them apart with CPR 18.

 

Allow them to place their foot and pull the trigger before pointing and laughing

 

 

Hi everyone

 

Received a letter from them basically saying ...

 

 

I am unable to provide a copy of the original loan application docs due to the amount of time that has elapsed since inception of the accounts. blah blah....

 

Ok, so foot has now been placed.

 

You could always reply stating that although the application form would have been good, you do recall signing the application form.

You should ask for a copy of the original executed agreement as, although you remember signing some sort of application form, you have no recollection whatsoever of signing an executed credit agreement......

 

only if that is true of course ......

 

I have an account with LTSB of a similar age and I certainly cannot recall having signed ANYTHING other than the original application form ...

[disgruntled2007]

subbing! Good luck with your case - I'm following this with great interest as I've just sent LTSB (well, a DCA anyways) the "CPUTR" letter asking them to confirm if they have the original agreement.....

[foxyflugel]

I received a letter the other day from **** solicitors in response to my CPR14 request. It says that pursuant to the Practice Direction 18 4.1(1) advise me that they are unlikely to be able to comply with the timescale I have set for a response to my request.

 

They then go on to say that they have advised their client to provide the documentation which I have requested but it is likely to take up to 21 days for them to provide it.

 

Then they confirm that they will make a full and detailed response to my request for info either as soon as they are able to or at the very latest within 28 days of the date of the letter (dated 8th March).

 

Where does this leave me? As I understand it I only have 28 days to prepare my defence from when I acknowledged the service of the court summons (16th Feb). What do I do now?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Foxy

[Dotty50]

So, what do you do, well, the first thing, you seek an extension of time under CPR 15.5. As a party can agree to extend the deadline up to 56 days , yes 56 that’s 28 for the original time frames and a further 28 on top.

 

This is an extract of a post in my aplins thread, courtesy of PT2537 which may be of help to you, although I did not have to use it.

 

The full post can be read here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?287153-Aplins-claim-issued-urgent-help-needed-please&p=3231831&viewfull=1#post3231831

[foxyflugel]

Thanks for your swift reply Dotty. I have read through your link - think I've got a mental block here

Do I apply for a time extension to **** or the court? and is there a template for it? where can I find it? Many thanks

 

Foxy

[Dotty50]

Don't worry Foxy, I have had a mental block for some time now!

 

I think you have to ask SCM for the extension but copy the court so that they are aware, then you must get written confirmation of the agreed extension which you will need to advise the court of.

 

I don't know if there is a template but I am pretty sure there is a link somewhere on my thread, to PT's thread, giving an example of what to write.

 

I am about to go out so haven't got time to look now, but if you use the search option on my thread, you should be able to find it. I think PT's thread is the embarrassed defences one.

[foxyflugel]

Apologies - gave wrong date - the form is dated 16/2/11 and I acknowledged it on 25/2/11 - so it's not as narrow a timescale as I thought - phew. Will look again on your link Dotty and send a letter to **** solicitors and copy the court in and ensure I get a written agreement that they will extend.

 

Many thanks.

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

Can anyone give me some idea of what to write to them as I have searched Dotty's thread link and cannot see a letter to send.

 

Many thanks

 

Foxy

[Dotty50]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?283443-Embarrassed-Defences-and-the-problems-with-them.&p=3193055&viewfull=1#post3193055

 

Here you are Foxy.

[foxyflugel]

Thanks, once again, Dotty for coming to my rescue

I have tweaked the letter slightly but am unsure of the date of the extension.

The court form says 16/2/11 and I acknowledged it on 25/2/11 - so what date should I request the extension to?

I send this **** solicitors and copy to the court as well?

Thank you for your letter dated 8th March 2011 the contents of which are duly noted.

As I am not in possession of all of the documents relevant to this claim and your letter advises this could take up to 28 days (from the date of your letter) to provide these, I would respectfully request that we agree an extension of time pursuant to CPR 15.5 until 4 pm on ????????? to file my defence.

If we cannot agree then I will have no option but to apply to the court for an order allowing me the additional time and wasted costs as a result. You will be aware that the Court is likely to grant me the extension as a refusal to do so would prejudice me unfairly as I am a litigant in person.

Please confirm this extension in writing.

Thanks

Foxy

[Dotty50]

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part15.htm#IDAUX3EC

 

If your N1 is dated 16th February you have 28 days to file your defence, check with the court if you are unsure but I make it 16th March so you need to get moving quickly to get the extension.

 

Can you fax SCM?