Microfiche statements

[JWG]

Further to my previous posts I have read the letter very very carefully and possibly found what the Abbey are doing.

 

My letter asked for a complete list of transactions and charges imposed tn the for the past six years. I then added "Alternatively a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable."

The Abbey letter makes much of transactions being microfiched but does not mention of statements at all. I therefore intent to respond by insisting the statements are provided under the original DPA request.

Anyone else got other ideas?

[dave]

Estimate the amount and write to them giving them 14 days to comply.

 

When they don't, sue for the estimated amount, ie.:

 

"I expect to recover no more than £2000.00." or whatever your estimate is.

 

I bet they soon go through the 'microfiche' then to find out how much they owe you.

 

Fight fire with fire! (My grandad got fired from the Fire Brigade for doing just that - they said he should have used water! - You just can't win sometimes!)

[EricTheRed]

Thanks for all the comments and they have been included.

 

Here's the final draft.

 

"ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Dear Ms Small

 

Thank you for your letter dated 28th March outlining that you could only provide me with statements covering the last 11 months on my account because any earlier information has been archived onto microfiche. Enclosed was a list of transactions and account detail covering the 11 month period.

 

As you stated that microfiche is not covered by the DPA I am assuming that Abbey have conformed to the strictures of the DPA and therefore the cheque originally sent will cover the Subject Access Request. If this is correct then please cash it.

 

The statements for this period show that I have incurred charges of £672 during this period. Based on this information and your banks clear obstructiveness in providing me with the information I asked for I wish to inform you that unless you can provide me with evidence of all charges relating to my bank account dating back to my original request date of 1st January 2000 then it will leave me with no alternative but to issue a County Court summons for which I expect to recover no more than £4032 plus interest to cover the period from 1st January 2000.

 

My request is for a schedule of all the charges applied to my account with appropriate descriptions for the past six years – in short a list of charges with dates and amounts - alternatively a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable. This should be retrievable from your accounting systems and easy for you to produce. I will accept a computer print out of these transactions.

 

Please note that you have 40 days from 9th March in which to respond

 

Yours faithfully"

[Spiceskull]

Eric - would suggest you edit your previous post, and replace your account number with XXXX

[EricTheRed]

Oops - done many thanks

[Spiceskull]

...good letter though...show them who is the boss! Good luck.

[heppy23]

How do you get from £672 to £4000 odd? Have you estimated based on years?

Most of my abbey charges are 2+ years old and I think I will hit the "microfilm wall".

That doesn't mean I will let them fob me off!

[EricTheRed]

£672 per year (this year was actually £672) so an estimated claim for 6 years £672*6 = £4032

 

They only sent me a list of transactions covering 11 months. I actually think the claim could be less but in the absence of their information I can only make a reasonable stab at it.

 

Hope this helps

[Spiceskull]

Sure - they will come back, pretty sharpish, and say that the charges actually total something like £2K. That's great, as you can then claim back what they have said you have been charged. Additionally (and here is where you really gain points) - if they submit printed statements to court, and their figure is wrong...well, they didn't supply you with the information you requested AND they lied to you!!!

[EricTheRed]

I’ve just spoken to Abbey about their E Banking facility and been told that there are two years statements on line. Why therefore can they only send me 11 months transactions for my DPA request if they are available up to 2 years electronically so therefore why do they need to microfiche my statements from over 11 months ago. Inconsistency on their behalf I assume. Anyway I’m still awaiting a response to me letter and I will keep you posted. Perhaps I should ask them.

[Spiceskull]

They are obviously lying/stalling unless...the bank does not have access to online information like the customers do...

[heppy23]

Don't give them another 40 days - just use the original date that you gave for them to properly comply with your DPA request.

 

I agree. 40 days is quite plenty. remember you are dealing with a BIG organisation with teams of people that will just be doing DPA stuff day in day out.

 

NEVER feel sorry for them or feel you owe them a favour.

[EricTheRed]

They provide on line access to customer information for their customers and for themselves they only have access to information archived in a system that was used when Noah was a lad? They are having a laugh. I suspect with the volume of letters/claims being sent their way they don’t know which way to turn. Inconsistency is becoming an epidemic within Abbey. Time for a team meeting I suspect to stop the Chinese Walls getting higher within their organisation or some sort of policy statement to ensure consistency in their lies and fabrications. Let battle commence!

[dave]

Abbey have provided all 6 years for many people - including me and my partner.

 

In my opinion they are just stalling - I suggest writing to the IC informing him that you have evidence that they have access to 6 years and that they are stalling now that they are faced with this onslaught of people that have caught them out and are now claiming back their money.

 

I have a list of 6 years print-outs that I will supply if the IC needs proof.

[EricTheRed]

Thanks I'll do that.

[EricTheRed]

Done - gone first class today

 

"Dear Ms Small

 

Thank you for your letter dated 28th March outlining that you could only provide me with statements covering the last 11 months on my account because any earlier information has been archived onto microfiche. Enclosed was a list of transactions and account detail covering the 11 month period.

 

My request was for a schedule of all the charges applied to my account with appropriate descriptions for the past six years – in short a list of charges with dates and amounts - alternatively a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable. This should be retrievable from your accounting systems and easy for you to produce. I will accept a computer print out of these transactions.

 

Please note that you have 40 days from 9th March in which to respond

 

In the interim period I will be sending a copy of my letters and your response(s) to the Information Commissioner informing him that I can supply him with evidence that Abbey have access to 6 years information (provided on print outs) and that Abbey are using stalling tactics to delay my claim.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Eric The Red"

[dave]

Nice.

[alanfromderby]

Super...will send a copy of the above to Jackie Scott as well - just had a letter from her saying that the trasactions prior to the ones they sent have been archived onto microfiche etc etc.

 

She does say she has passed the £10 on to the archive department, and they will send copy statements "in due course", but we all know how long "due course" is!

[JWG]

Abbey appear to have refused my request for copies of statements under SARN. The following letter from Sheena states it will be passed on to the relevant business area with a response "in due course"

What do the rest of you make of it? Any suggestions what to do next?

 

 

Dear

 

Thank you for your letter dated .

 

Transactional data archived onto microfiche are not part of a "relevant filing system" as defined by the Data Protection Act and consequently you would not get this information as part of a Subject Access Request. However, as it is clear from your letter that you still require the multiple statements, I have forwarded your request together with your £10 fee, to the relevant business area to be dealt with as a normal customer service request.

 

There is an administration fee for the supply of microfiche records which are as follows: -

£5.00 for 1 monthly statement which has been archived

£10.00 for multiple monthly statements, which have been archived.

 

I confirm that they will forward the microfiche records you have requested in due course.

 

You have also asked for details of any "manual interventions" that there may have been on your account. Although I am not entirely clear as to what information it is that you require, I am taking a "manual intervention" to be any action taken with regard to your account other than an automatic or computer-driven action.

 

You will appreciate that first of all, not all manual interventions on your account may be recorded. For example, if a member of staff looks at a paper document relating to your account, a record of that activity will not always be made. Moreover, an "intervention" may be carried out by any one of a large number of departments in Abbey. There is no central record of such interventions because this is not the kind of information that we usually need nor, more importantly, information that a customer would normal request.

 

I regret therefore that I am unable to supply detailed information of any manual intervention. I am sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

[alanfromderby]

Abbey appear to have refused my request for copies of statements under SARN. The following letter from Sheena states it will be passed on to the relevant business area with a response "in due course"

What do the rest of you make of it? Any suggestions what to do next?

 

 

Dear

 

Thank you for your letter dated .

 

Transactional data archived onto microfiche are not part of a "relevant filing system" as defined by the Data Protection Act and consequently you would not get this information as part of a Subject Access Request. However, as it is clear from your letter that you still require the multiple statements, I have forwarded your request together with your £10 fee, to the relevant business area to be dealt with as a normal customer service request.

 

There is an administration fee for the supply of microfiche records which are as follows: -

£5.00 for 1 monthly statement which has been archived

£10.00 for multiple monthly statements, which have been archived.

 

I confirm that they will forward the microfiche records you have requested in due course.

 

You have also asked for details of any "manual interventions" that there may have been on your account. Although I am not entirely clear as to what information it is that you require, I am taking a "manual intervention" to be any action taken with regard to your account other than an automatic or computer-driven action.

 

You will appreciate that first of all, not all manual interventions on your account may be recorded. For example, if a member of staff looks at a paper document relating to your account, a record of that activity will not always be made. Moreover, an "intervention" may be carried out by any one of a large number of departments in Abbey. There is no central record of such interventions because this is not the kind of information that we usually need nor, more importantly, information that a customer would normal request.

 

I regret therefore that I am unable to supply detailed information of any manual intervention. I am sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

 

Had the same letter - I have sent a letter to them which may be of help to you - it only went yesterday, so I don't know if it has worked, but if you want to have a look go to the last post on my thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2434&page=2

 

Please could you then post progress on a new thread, otherwise it gets difficult to follow the progress of individual cases.

[martinwhite]

If it's not part of a relevent filing system - then what is the point of keeping it for 6 years (or longer). It's on computer still and they know you know.

 

also how come your statements are archived onto Microfiche and yet many other users claiming from Abbey haven't had this excuse presented?

 

Quote durant to them and get all data for the £10.

 

As for the manual intervention, as I have said elsewhere, the fact that not ALL manual involvement is not recorded does not prevent ANY being disclosed. Furthermore, if there is ANY manual intervention which is not recording WHO WHEN WHY WHAT WHERE HOW then ask them why this is, and if they would accept this over a deduction from their salary?

 

Stalling tactics of the most obvious kind. Reply and say that any further prevarication will be deemed as deliberate obstruction and result in a complaint to the IC without further correspondence with the Abbey.

 

 

Martin

[Seminole]

I think Abbey's argument is, in any event, very unconvincing. At the end of the day all a statement is is a specifically formatted transaction report from data held on a ledger. It is inconceivable that they don't hold online trsnsaction records even for closed accounts for several years. If they had a tax investigation they would need to provide access to this information and I wouldn't want to tell HMRC that the sample transactions that they asked for from two years ago are somewhere in the pile of microfiches over there in the corner.

[MISSIE]

Hi

I have asked for mortgage statements for the last 12 years, and the letter I received was also from Sheena Small the DP Consultant, and my letter reads

 

Please note that under the data protection act disclosure request, you will only receive the transactional information that is held on our systems. I regret that the DPA does not cover any prior transactional data that has been archived on to microfiche. However, in order to assisit you further and as a part of a general customer service, the microfiche records will be sent to you in due course.

 

So if they can find my information for the last 12 years, then they should have no problem in finding yours. Did you send the £10?

 

Don't let them fob you off, keep at it.

 

Good luck and keep smiling.

 

Missie

[jemachin]

I have also received a letter from Ms S Small stating that the archieved documents are not covered by the Data Protection Act - However as I had enclosed my £10 fee and sent a second letter stating I wish for a full 6 years worth of statements she has advised me that she has sent the fee to the relavent department and I will be forward the information in due course.

I think that the stalling tactic is to see who will just give up the chase - I will be chasing again nearer the 40 days is up.

As for the dataprotection act not covering the Microfiche, I feel that this is misleading as the Dataprotection action also covers your image on CCTV and information held on paper So I would just perservere - be patient but persisitant and if all else fails report them to the FSA (25 North Colonnade, Canary Wharf, London)

[andrew1]

Is there anyone out there working for the Abbey who can tell us if this a pack of lies or not? Do they ACTUALLY keep these records on microfiche or is it all lies?