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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Debts over 40k, Cant go bankrupt. What do we do?


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I'm gonna wait to do those requests as I don't really require that information at this moment. I will just forward a letter telling them, They have all the information related to my name. I will give them my full name and date of birth. The rest is up to them. If they reckon I owe them 10K then I reckon they should know who I am. Like I said stalling.

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I'm gonna wait to do those requests as I don't really require that information at this moment. I will just forward a letter telling them, They have all the information related to my name. I will give them my full name and date of birth. The rest is up to them. If they reckon I owe them 10K then I reckon they should know who I am. Like I said stalling.

 

I disagree! You're not stalling, you're taking very sensible precautions. If I wrote to you and said you owed me £10000 I doubt you'd pay it, so what gives them this right? They either have the proof or they don't simple as! If they don't, they cannot enforce the debt until such time as they have got the proof.

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Sorry I meant they are stalling. thats why they are asking stupid questions like whats the bank sort code?

 

I can't repeat enough, it is not your job to help them comply with your request. They've demanded the money, you've asked for the CCA. For them it's either put up or shut up time, it certainly isn't for you to give them any information whatsoever to help them.

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Gawd, that is taking drastic action. If you emigrate to the right place you cannot be pursued for your debts in the UK. However, it would make it hard for you to come back again for the next 6 years (say 6 1/2 - 7 to be safe) and it really is very extreme. Fair play to you though, it's an option I would never have thought of. I am not at all familiar with emigration laws so don't know whether you can move abroad like that with outstanding debt in this country or not.

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don't know whether you can move abroad like that with outstanding debt in this country or not.

 

You would need to check the various immigration laws of the countries in question. Their embassies will be able to fill you in.

 

Also bear in mind that if a creditor obtains a CCJ against you they can, in principle at least, chase you forever - although there are plenty of rules + caselaw which points to 6 years being the maximum that leave will be given for enforcement measures once the judgment has been obtained.

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I have been toying with the idea for emigration for a while.

 

My job is good I like it, Thats it. My wifes job is good but its not great as the goverment is cutting so much money her job is not secure. We were talking about paying off the CCJ as this will hinder us emigrating, Then paying the one or two larger debts.

 

If we go it will be for good. What has the UK to offer to any UK citizen? We work hard for our money and they work hard to take it off us?!

 

The UK is a huge rat race and everyone is trying to get one over you.

 

I read this

 

If debt got racked up in your name and the creditors insist on holding you liable it is a way to escape it.

If you move abroad (to Australia/NZ for example) your UK debt cannot affect your credit rating there.

Even if the debt is sold to an Australian/NZ debt collection company, by law they are compelled to accept any arrangement offer you make – even as low as $5 a month.In Australia/NZ you cannot be threatened with legal action on the basis of your UK debt.

After six years your debt is “statute barred” and written off anyway (provided you have not acknowledged it in writing or paid anything towards it for that time period. This does not apply to certain other debts covered by deed such as mortgage arrears for which you can be pursued for up to 12 years afterwards. If a CCJ (court judgement) has been registered against you before the end of the six year period it does not expire.

Edited by pengy666
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Emigration doesn't always work out and you could end up coming back owing even more money. The economies in some of the popular destinations are fairly fragile and there is always a rat race, wherever you live. I discovered all of this when I took off to NZ to live.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Ok so now I have another two CCA returned and they do not act on behalf of this company anymore.

 

What do I do about them taking my money for the last 4 years or so?

 

Of course I will be forwarding account dispute letters, Also they have not provided any information or indicated they are going to pass the request onto the original creditor.

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Ok so now I have another two CCA returned and they do not act on behalf of this company anymore.

 

What do I do about them taking my money for the last 4 years or so?

 

Of course I will be forwarding account dispute letters, Also they have not provided any information or indicated they are going to pass the request onto the original creditor.

 

Sorry - me being thick! Are you saying you've been paying these two companies for the past four years, they've taken your money and now you've CCA'd them they have failed to supply a CCA and told you they are not acting for the OC anymore?

 

I think this is what you mean. If so and you haven't heard from anybody else, then you need written confirmation that the money you have paid them has been passed to the original creditor, otherwise you want it back. You also remind them of their obligation to pass your request on to the OC, let the 12+2 days past then stop paying and place the account into dispute.

 

Write to the OC with the Account In Dispute letter explaining that you've been paying x DCA £y pcm for the past four years. Ask them to send you the current balance of account and say they should be hearing from x DCA with a CCA request as you submitted one to them on dd/mm/yyyy enclosing the statutory fee of £1.00, and were told they were no longer dealing with this account. Until such time as you receive this the account will remain in dispute. Also ask for a statement of account showing all payments made over the past year (and if feeling cheeky, the past 4 years)

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We have done this for a very long time,

 

We have written to all the collection agencys asking for statement of accounts regularly. Most never acknowledge the letter has even been recieved.

 

Yes this has gone on for this long and the original creditors never ask for money. We sometimes get monthly statements for some of the cards. Its absolute madness.

 

my letter is the same as the one we created with Elsa's help. Not a account in dispute, Just saying forward relevant information or the original cca letter or I will dispute the account.

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We have done this for a very long time,

 

We have written to all the collection agencys asking for statement of accounts regularly. Most never acknowledge the letter has even been recieved.

 

Yes this has gone on for this long and the original creditors never ask for money. We sometimes get monthly statements for some of the cards. Its absolute madness.

 

my letter is the same as the one we created with Elsa's help. Not a account in dispute, Just saying forward relevant information or the original cca letter or I will dispute the account.

 

In which case that is what you must do. If they do not supply the requested CCA then send the Account In Dispute Letter (shout if you need a copy). At this stage you stop making any payments whatsoever, and until such time as they comply with your request they have to cease all collection activity on the debt (they often don't - so just store up any letters etc.... while in dispute as evidence).

 

It is regretable that it has got to this stage in my opinion, but really you have been forced into a corner where you either pay a group of people who may or may not be entitled to the money you're sending them, or you place the account into dispute, cease payment and force their hand - you really have no option as far as I can see.

 

I would make sure you keep a copy of this thread somewhere as evidence that you've tried your best as well.

 

The owner of the debt is duty bound to send you an annual statement of account - have you been getting these?

Edited by Tingy
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Just catching up.....

Yep, I agree. OK for you to pay them money, not interested in supplying you with proof you owe it. Hmmm. Stop paying them, see who (eventually) comes out of the woodwork to demand payment.

In the meantime write to the OC's and say that you are most concerned about the administration of the above (not "my") account in that despite having paid xxx company for several years they have recently sent the (enclosed copy) letter refusing to supply a copy of the Credit Agreement formally requested on xxxx or to advise to whom the request should be made. As they are aware this is contrary to OFT guidelines. In order to be reasonable in this matter you therefore enclose a copy of the original request, but that the original date of receipt of the request by their agents (xx xx xx) still stands and the account is in dispute until the request is fully satisfied.

 

A couple of other observations..good find on the Carey judgement, but (extremely briefly..it's still being picked apart to the nth degree) this is in relation to what can be supplied in response to a CCA request..ie reconstituted agreements. Many creditors are abusing the rulings to infer that recons are enforceable in court.

 

With regard to recons...they CAN supply them in response to the CCA request, but they have to be correct and have your original address, correct interest rates, T&C's etc from inception and if varied. Many get it wrong. (One of my recons quoted an act that hadn't been, erm, enacted when the card was taken out.) :roll:

Sooooo never ever supply your original address etc, as you've rightly elected not to do, your current address and account reference should be all they require if they've kept proper records. If they haven't..tough!

 

Elsa xx

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there are a number of ways here, some a bit naughty, some not so, but i would strongly advise your wife speaks to her employer and asks permission to go bankrupt, it is questionable unless she works in finance and accounting whether it would even be a fair term. Whatever anyone says i refuse to accept that an IVA is a suitable arrangement for anyone given the long term nature and the fact it still does not supersede a secured debt. so i would avoid that at all costs. bankruptcy is not joint, never is, never will be, not even if you want it to be.

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I agree with ninjainthenight on this, IVAs aren't suitable for everyone and only prolong the agony, and leave you a pauper as well. It also has the effect of leaving your credit rating trashed for another six years after the final payment on the final debt has been paid off..... something that bankruptcy puts a stop to.

 

If you wife does have the opportunity of taking voluntary severence again be careful about letting creditors know, it is best then to negotiate with everyone WITHOUT letting them know about the severance payment as some DCAs are getting sneaky and try to go for other methods very quickly now - such as forthwith CCJs backed up in 14 days with an interim charging order....

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It also has the effect of leaving your credit rating trashed for another six years after the final payment on the final debt has been paid off

 

it's six years from the date of the IVA order, rather than the last payment. I totally agree that an IVA is an unlikely option for sure.

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I don't think anything's happened, Tingy.

Under many circumstances I'd probably agree that Bankruptcy was a way out, but as Pengy was so keen to avoid that and explore other options, that's what we've been trying to help him do.

Also, I'm under the impression that these debts are spread between both Pengy and his wife, some individual, maybe some joint, so without a breakdown of who owes the most and how much is joint (in which case the non BR partner would obviously become liable for the whole debt), then it's hard to pass an opinion anyway on whether BR is the best option for either or both.

As Pengy is now in a position to possibly negotiate full and finals, my own (admittedly naughty :wink: ) view is that the creditors would be far more likely to take reduced offers if the accounts were disputed and payments stopped, to the point where they are more malleable and receptive to offers.

Additionally, a "consideration" in the offer would be to inform them that this is a last ditch attempt to sort this out, the only other option being bankruptcy, in which case they would get very little as no property is involved - hence it's in the creditors' best interest to deal.

Hopefully Pengy will update us, as things can change very quickly.

Just my personal thoughts,

 

Elsa x

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