Wills/Estates

[Dragons Dennis]

I don't know where else to ask, so please forgiuve me asking here.

 

My mother died very recently and we had the funeral a couple of weeks ago. There is a bad feeling in the family generally and I do not wish to speak to my dad or my sisters. I do know my mother left a will and I also know the solicitor where it is.

 

What I want to ask is what do I need to do in order to see her last will? I know there is no perfect time to ask really and I feel bad even thinking about it. But I really want to get everything over and done with.I will not be contacting my dad or my sisters again, mainly because of their lack of thought for my mum when she was really ill, but it goes back many many years. You would not believe me if I told you the full details,. but effectively I was abused as a child by all 3 of them. Not something you are very easy to forgive for.

 

So, if anyone knows what I need and how I go about approaching the solicitors, I would be obliged. This is in Scotland by the way.

 

Thanks

Dennis.

[papasmurf1cx]

Hi Dennis

 

I'm no expert but if you think you may be mentioned in the will, I would imagine you have a right to see it. You could just write to the solicitor asking if you are mentioned and ask for a copy if you are.

[Dragons Dennis]

Thanks for the reply. I meant more to do with official stuff. I am entitled to see it, if she is dead. The solicitor may not have been told yet and will probably ask for a death certificate or something I would imagine. No idea how I get that or from where.

[papasmurf1cx]

http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/regscot/registering-a-death.html

[Dragons Dennis]

Thanks again,. but that is how to register a death, which I do not want to do.

 

It's ok. I will figure it all out.

[PriorityOne]

Thanks again,. but that is how to register a death, which I do not want to do.

 

It's ok. I will figure it all out.

 

You have to register the death.... are you saying you don't want to register it personally or, that you just don't want to register it?

 

You won't get a death certificate unless the death is registered.... and nothing will happen unless you have one.

[Dragons Dennis]

No, what I meant is that the registartion will NOT be done by me. I am having nothing to do with it all. I know it must be done and I believe within 8 days in Scaotland. I jsut will not be doing it as I am the family outrcast effeictively so be it on their head if they don't. (which I am sure they will ahve already)

[PriorityOne]

The death certificate will go to whoever registers the death. You may be able to get a copy/copies for yourself but you'll need to go to the Registrar with ID... best to ring them and find out if you can do this or not. When I registered my mum's death, the Registrar asked how many official copies I needed for banks, solicitors and so on. It costs for each one. I also had to make an appt. to register the death.

 

If you're family, then I can't see why you shouldn't able to get a copy/copies for yourself but you'll need to ring them first, find out and make an appt. after the death has been registered.

Edited November 28, 2010 by PriorityOne
typo

[PriorityOne]

Just re-read... if you've had the funeral, then the death must have already been registered.

[maroondevo52]

I think you can get anyones death certificate, cost me £12 in Edinburgh a few weeks ago when my brothers father died, all I gave was a his name because I was'nt really sure if he was dead or not.

My brother lives in South Africa so no way he would know, I only heard a rumor so I was trying to find out for him, it turns out he died in Febuary this year.

 

This link might help.................

 

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2003/08/17011/21439

Edited November 29, 2010 by maroondevo52

[Dragons Dennis]

Thank you both. That was very useful.

[Dragons Dennis]

Just a quick update, yes it has been registered (but even that was done in a ridiculous way by my family) and to get a copy is curreently £9. I am now awaiting a reply from the solicitors, but believe that in Scotland no will is actually executed until 6 months have passed from death in case of any challenges. I don't mind that part to be honest, I just would like to know if my mother left me anything or not.

[PriorityOne]

It does take a long time, yes..... but if you are named in the Will, they will write and tell you. Do you know who the Executor is? If you're named in the Will, then the sols. should give you all the info.

[Dragons Dennis]

No I don't know who the executor is. I know my mother had an income from investments made by her Father who died in 1969 and left a substantial estate which was (for whatever reason known only to him) tied up in a way which meant she could not actually get at anything other than the monthly interest on those shares etc. I really just want to close a chapter. I have no problem with my late mother whom I was very, very close to. I just want to end the relationship with the rest of them once and for all. I am sure that will seem odd to many, but to others I hope it makes sense.

[PriorityOne]

No I don't know who the executor is. I know my mother had an income from investments made by her Father who died in 1969 and left a substantial estate which was (for whatever reason known only to him) tied up in a way which meant she could not actually get at anything other than the monthly interest on those shares etc. I really just want to close a chapter. I have no problem with my late mother whom I was very, very close to. I just want to end the relationship with the rest of them once and for all. I am sure that will seem odd to many, but to others I hope it makes sense.

 

No it doesn't sound odd at all....

 

If your mum was only allowed to draw interest from the estate left to her then the estate must have been Willed to someone else or, placed in trust for someone else; hopefully you (and your siblings, I assume). This was the case with a different Will in my own family history; where my grandmother was allowed to live in a house until her death but not allowed to sell the house. The house was sold after her death and the proceeds went to my dad as the only child. She was also allowed to have the interest from certain savings but not touch the capital.....

 

Your late mum's solicitor will clear this up for you.... assuming that her Will is still with him/her and she didn't involve another solicitor in her legal affairs before she passed away. It would be easier for you if the solicitor was also the Executor because if it's another family member, getting info. may prove difficult.

[Dragons Dennis]

Thanks very, very much for your very helpful input.

 

I know my mothers father left her his estate (as an only child) in trust and there were trustees over the years who dealt with everything AFAIK. I do not believe she appointed a solicitor different to the one I know of as she had used them for over 30 years and I was told just this year that both my mother and father's will were with them. I sincerely hope that she has not appointed any member of my family to oversee anything as that will basically be hell on earth for me.

 

I have e-mailed the solicitors who will hopefully get back to me in due course. They do know who I am as they just happen to be my solicitor too.

[uaruman]

Hi I notice your posting was in November. If you read my various posts you'll see my situation was very similar. You are, rest assured, entitled to see a copy of the Will. Feeling ill at ease in your present situation is understandable although, in truth, it solves nothing. 2 years down the line (yes 2 years) I am slowly uncovering some facts which the Halifax Bank, assisted by fso, have attempted to cover over. You need a solicitor. Its a maze that once you start going down, gets not only complicated, but is governed by greed and stupidity.

[nessa100]

I have come in here with my issue, as in some respects it is not unlike the problems the original poster has experienced. My husband's mother is either mentally unsound, or very clever and she has alienated pretty much everybody over the years. She is quite frankly the nastiest person I have ever met, and my husband feels pretty much the same although occasionally he has said "but she is my mum". She believes everybody is out to get her in one way or the other - either they want to know all her business, or looking to fleece her in some way. She will not visit an optician because she believes they can read her thoughts through her eyes, and even as a 10 year old my hubby was being told their home was bugged. I could give you so many examples of her behaviour, but don't want to bore you, and do need to see if I can get a straight answer to a question which the internet has failed to clarify.

Whilst my husband remained in contact with his parents, this was more for his Dad's sake than anything, and sadly he died last July. During his last couple of days in hospital, she continued to spit out venom towards all and sundry, and she insisted that nobody be told about his death, as he didn't want them to know (more likely she didn't). A couple of years ago following an initial cancer operation, Dad-in-law told Phil he'd made a will, and my hubby was named as executor. We subsequently got a letter from what we assumed were solicitors, which have to say we scanned quickly, and put in a safe place.

So when he died, my husband said to her he'd need access to relevant documents in order to apply for probate, and even though he knew it would happen, she made it quite clear he was seeing nothing (and indeed she had a bonfire the very next day). After 2 days of her using him as a taxi service, but otherwise attempting to exclude him, and belittling him in front of others, he had an almighty row with her, and rang me in a state to say there was no way she would give him access to anything, and he couldn't see how he could act as executor. I told him that he could withdraw, and should do so if he felt that her need for secrecy could land him in trouble with authorities. He went to the "solicitor" who turned out to be merely a will writing firm. He didn't get access to the will as "she" had the death certificate, but when he said that he did not wish to continue acting because of his mother's behaviour, he was told his mother was an executor - something neither his Dad nor she had mentioned. When we looked at the letter from the will writing people again, hubby was apparently an executor in substitution which seems to mean that instead of being an executor, he would only ever have acted if she couldn't (and in truth she'd have never allowed that to happen).

So, they are now estranged and she didn't even tell him when the funeral was, I found out through the crematorium. Through her attitudes and determination, a well liked man went to his maker with 4 mourners present - her, myself, hubby and son.

Now, knowing what she's like we believe that it is unlikely she'd apply for probate.She told hubby that everything was left to her, and whilst we have no issues with that, there are other minor things which Phil's Dad had often said would be hubby's when he'd gone (tools for example). We have applied for a copy of the will but so far nothing has been put in the public domain, and it is currently subject to a standing search. What we cannot establish is whether she is legally bound to apply for probate and submit the will to them. I have spoken to the legal line on my home insurance, and quite honestly feel the lady didn't grasp what I was saying as she suggested we write to his mum and contact the probate office. Well the first suggestion would be a waste of time as any letter we wrote would join other documents on her bonfire, and the probate office seemed to feel we should make an appointment to our local office to search for the same documents which have not been forthcoming by our paid for standing search.

So, you have the background. Can anybody tell me if she has to apply for probate to get her sticky hands on everything, and whether she must submit the will to the authorities. I can only establish that probate isn't always required, although the estate here would be the house (about £150K) plus cash in the joint account, plus personal bits and bobs. Bear in mind that if she has to disclose information to get hold of something, she'd probably not bother, so even if the house stayed in his name she wouldn't see that as an issue, and she has access to the money as the account was a joint account so she could carry on as she always has.

Would be most grateful for any advice if only to put the matter to bed for my husband's sake. He hasn't been able to grieve properly for his Dad because her behaviour comes into his thoughts, and then he gets upset and angry. We know that even if he was left anything, she won't tell him and would probably get rid of it just out of spite, but if we were sure it was worth fighting for we'd possibly move to have her removed as executor, but don't want to do so just to see a bit of paper that doesn't even acknowledge my husband exists (which if she was involved in it, is probably the case).

[uaruman]

If you look at my posting, under Halifax Bank beneficiary and executor fraud, you will find a similar situation. I have learned a lot this last two years so maybe I can help you. Read it first and let me know. The other articles on FOS complaints, under my name, breaks it down for easier reading.

Edited February 21, 2011 by uaruman
clarity

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. I don't know the procedures offhand if an estate is under the IHT [inheritance Tax] limit, but I would think you could check on the Probate Service website about whether it needs to be reported or not.

 

If your mother in law is the executor, I think there may be little you can do, sorry. I understand how you must feel, but nasty family members seem to be able to get away with what they like, more or less. I hope I'm wrong.

 

My best, HB

[uaruman]

Inheritance tax is not the major problem. Its the 7 year ruling and the "gift" element. That's where they could come unstuck. Interesting one though

[PriorityOne]

If she's not mentally sound, should she even be an executor in the first place?......

 

I went through a horrendous time when my own Mum passed away but can remember being urged to persuade her to make a Will before she got to the point of being mentally incompetent to do so. She was eventually diagnosed with dementia/Alztheimer's and to be honest, some of the behaviour you're describing rings a lot of bells.

Edited February 21, 2011 by PriorityOne
typo

[honeybee13]

Inheritance tax is not the major problem. Its the 7 year ruling and the "gift" element. That's where they could come unstuck. Interesting one though

 

Hello there. Do mean if there were any lifetime gifts? I'm very rusty on IHT and I agree if money was given away, but there's also the rule that money left on death between spouses is exempt from IHT.

 

My best, HB

[uaruman]

Mentally unsound? Having her removed as an executor, through her behaviour, should be done through a Solicitor. This can be done, provided you have enough clear evidence. An Executor has clear and concise duties. If the Executor involved is not acting as required, by law, an Adminstrator will usually be appointed. See a Solicitor. I managed last year to remove one executor and get an Administrator appointed. Cheap? No Peace of mind? Yes. Depending on the circumstances, its also a cost that could be passed on to the Estate.

Edited February 21, 2011 by uaruman
clarity

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I don't know if this will be helpful or not. I got this from the CAB website on when an estate needs to be declared. The points by other posters about unsuitablility to be an executor are interesting though.

 

My best, HB

 

Do you always need probate or letters of administration

 

You usually need probate or letters of administration to deal with an estate if it includes property such as a flat or a house. Otherwise, you may not need probate or letters of administration if:

 

• the estate is just made up of cash (that is, bank notes and coins) and personal possessions such as a car, furniture, and jewellery
  
• all the property in the estate is owned as beneficial joint tenants This property automatically becomes wholly owned by the other owner
  
• you had a joint bank account
  
• the amount of money is small
  
• you discover that the estate is insolvent, that is, there is not enough money in the estate to pay all the debts, taxes and expenses
  
• there are certain life insurance policies and pension benefits in the estate.