Agreement not what it seems

[trevor33]

I was taken to court some time ago and lost the case. "They" produced a copy of an agreement which the judge accepted. I tried to point out that the T&Cs were not part of the agreement but the judge would not listen (he was predudiced from the start). The court said that "they" should collect, but no payment has ever been requested. (strange)

Going through some old papers I found the original agreement. For some reason it was not returned to "them". The main detiail was the same as the one produced in court except it is not signed by anyone and the T&Cs are very different to the one produced in court.

Is this a case of someone "enhancing" the document to give themselves a better chance in court. The signature on the court document was mine but this could have been obtained elsewhere.

Is there anything I can now do to put things right.

[DonkeyB]

Is this an application form-style agreement?

[rebel11]

Recent case's mean that creditors can 'reconstruct' agreements, but they shouldn't 'embellish' them.

[trevor33]

This is an agreement for a loan. As far as I can tell it is a proper agreement. My issue is whether they have added my signature as I have an original without it. I am wondering if it has been doctored and what I can do about it.

[DonkeyB]

How and where did you take out the loan? We need for details about how it all came about.

 

Was it via a mailing? Online? By an application form? When was the loan taken out?

[trevor33]

I still cannot understand why "they" have not asked for payment (its 2 years in Feb). They won with substantial costs because it was fast track.

I do not want to rock the boat unless there is a VERY good chance I might get somewhere.

[trevor33]

How and where did you take out the loan? We need for details about how it all came about.

 

Was it via a mailing? Online? By an application form? When was the loan taken out?

 

Loan taken out in 2000. Application form.

SAR sent 2007

Nothing received for about a year.

Then legal papers turned up........then the court case.

I will have to dig out the papers to get more details.

[DonkeyB]

I would be tempted to let sleeping dogs lie, but maybe have a look at your evidence/case in case it comes back.

 

A judge would not be happy if they leave it too long to enforce.

[trevor33]

I would be tempted to let sleeping dogs lie, but maybe have a look at your evidence/case in case it comes back.

 

A judge would not be happy if they leave it too long to enforce.

 

Thanks DB

What about the agreement I have without any signatures. Do you not think that I may have a case.

What could happen if they do not enforce, will the case be reviewed.

If they do not enforce within 6 years, will it be Statute Barred?

[DonkeyB]

No, not SB, ever, but a judge would tell 'em (most likely) where to go.

 

Were you taken to court by the original creditor or a debt buyer? If it’s the OC, then an SAR will alert them.

 

If it’s a debt buyer, then an SAR may be OK, as any suspicion for tampering may fall on the buyer, if such a thing has indeed occurred.

 

Is there a chance you could have signed a copy and simply kept an unsigned counterpart?

[trevor33]

No, not SB, ever, but a judge would tell 'em (most likely) where to go.

 

Were you taken to court by the original creditor or a debt buyer? If it’s the OC, then an SAR will alert them.

 

If it’s a debt buyer, then an SAR may be OK, as any suspicion for tampering may fall on the buyer, if such a thing has indeed occurred.

 

Is there a chance you could have signed a copy and simply kept an unsigned counterpart?

 

Taken to court by the OCs solicitors. (no names but they are quite well know on GAG)

I will have to check on the document but I think it is the proper agreement.

[Dougal16T]

Good evening,

 

Just poking my nose in again....why aren't we all thinking : 'if the signature was added by the creditor then this is a forged document'....?

 

This would then become a Criminal case against the creditor, and should be investigated as such.

 

Kind regards

 

Dougal

[trevor33]

Hi Dougal

You found me then

[DonkeyB]

Good evening,

 

Just poking my nose in again....why aren't we all thinking : 'if the signature was added by the creditor then this is a forged document'....?

 

This would then become a Criminal case against the creditor, and should be investigated as such.

 

Kind regards

 

Dougal

 

Thinking? Maybe.

 

Alas, courts need facts backed by evidence!

[Dougal16T]

Good morning,

 

Yes I agree, but what better evidence is there than a completed document apparently signed by the debtor, and a true copy of the original which the debtor holds without a signature on?

 

The Police will investigate if a compl;aint is made, and they will find (should) the evidence (let us be devil's advocate and say - if it) exists.

 

However to nail the lid down on this one:

 

A certified copy of the debtors true signature would help!

 

This could be provided by a declaration from a Solicitor, the same method from a Bank, or if possible a handwriting expert could be used.

 

In the meanwhile...

 

Best wishes

 

Dougal

[mark1arby]

However to nail the lid down on this one:

 

A certified copy of the debtors true signature would help!

 

This could be provided by a declaration from a Solicitor, the same method from a Bank, or if possible a handwriting expert could be used.

 

postggj apparently had a handwriting expert look at his signature on documents provided by Welcome Finance. He can confirm the outcome if you contact him. I can`t remember the details but I believe it cost about £200.

 

Cheers Mark

[trevor33]

I am not saying that the signature is a forgery, what I am saying is that it certainly looks like my signature. They could have obtained it from correspondence before I asked for an SAR.

T33

[Dougal16T]

Good evening,

 

This is where there is a problem - you must be certain that you did not sign the agreement. You must insist that you did not sign it when you report this to the Police, because it is Forgery, even if it was 'copied' from some other document and then entered on the loan form, by whatever means were used...AS LONG AS YOU DID NOT SIGN IT YOURSELF.

Best wishes

 

Dougal

[DonkeyB]

It’s an ‘admin error’ – they always are. It’s civil. And the police won’t be bothered!

[trevor33]

I think there is too many unknowns with this............too risky

T33

[DonkeyB]

I think there is too many unknowns with this............too risky

T33

 

I agree.

[Dougal16T]

It’s an ‘admin error’ – they always are. It’s civil. And the police won’t be bothered!

 

Good morning

This is a common misconception, and until you have been down that path the Criminal aspect of this situation must not be dismissed or understated.

 

The Police will be 'bothered' if they are approached properly. A crime may have been committed and they cannot ignore it.

 

Best wishes to all

 

Dougal

Edited November 4, 2010 by Dougal16T
Poor spelling...another detention looms!!!