Barclaycard Cabot Harassment for old Barclaycard debt - in scotland - Please help

[IdaInFife]

Can't comment on how cabot work.#

 

the 'averrment' doesn't stop them as still most people don't respond to the court papers but it gives you a complete defense up here.

 

yes court action before the 5 years would stop a debt becoming SB'd.

 

I would just ignore the calls if you can, some mobiles you can automatically get the equivalent of call barring i.e. my phone i can just block a number that i have recieved or missed a call from.

 

If they have a completly wrong address then as long as they cannot link it to a correct one then it shouldnt show on your credit report

 

sorry for hijack afw

[24233513afw]

Be My Guest Ida, Your more than welcome. Told BD someone with more knowledge would chip in. Where would we be without you and others on here.

 

I shall keep you all posted on Cabot's next step with me.

 

Thanks Ida.

Cheers

AFW

[firstship]

afw..............only OK on the basics in Scotland........... Ida is your best bet.............good luck......FS

[24233513afw]

Hello everyone

have not been on here for several weeks,

my husband has been very poorly and in hospital

so it has been a worrying time (helath wise)

and I had to put BC Cabot and everyone else on back burner as his health comes first...

 

Husband is home now and a bit better than he was...

so time to tackle the the debts again.

 

I explained above BC had sent me T & C's for my request for a CCA and Ida kindly advised me this was unenforceable..

....that was some time ago and now cabot are chipping in

I did send a letter to Cabot explaining this and they did reply putting account on hold unitl they could send CCA.

 

Well we have now received a letter with a few photo copies from BC which I shall post up for you all to see,

inspect and give me your valuable opinion as

now cabot are reallly going to bombard me as BC will obviously tell them they have sent me a copy of my CCA.

 

Below is copies of what we received:

 

Page 1

Page 2

Page 3

Page 4

Page 5

Page 6

Page7

 

Can anybody please help me write a letter of reply to BC and Cabot as at the present time my head is not up to complying a letter too much worry my head just spins and doesn't know when to stop.

 

Any help would be gratefully recieved.

 

Cheers

AFW

[IdaInFife]

just to confirm from what i can see, they have baically sent you blank terms and conditions whuch do not have your details on?

[IdaInFife]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?415-POSSIBLE-Letter-when-a-questionable-agreement-application-is-sent.

 

 

send this is the above post is correct

[24233513afw]

.

Cheers Ida...

Youv'e come up trumps again. Letter on its way tomorrow. Weather absolutely crazy here whats it like in FIfe land You have a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Cheers

AFW

[IdaInFife]

Back to diggin out again today grrrr.

 

Have a good one yourself and all the best for 2011

 

Ida x

[seriously fed up]

Thot I would pitch in here as BC have just assigned me to Carboot as well. Like everyone I got the usual "Welcome to Cabot" letter, so by reply they got a letter stating that a photopied letter with BC's address etc on it and my name typed in really wasnt a letter of assignment - particularly as it came from Carboot and not from BC. They also got told that the account was in serious dispute as

1. the last time I CCAd them they sent me a computer dump of T&Cs with my name and address at the top - basically the docs cited above, but they put my name on it.
   
2. the previous time they did actually come up with the application form (I know its an application form because it said so at the top) but with not a single prescribed term on it (though it did have my sig on it). Remember BC were so impressed with this bit of paper that they sent me the pile of rubbish referred to above later on.
   

Having assured me that they would be looking to collect, they flogged me off to Carboot. Thankfully no phone calls and no reply - at the time of writing this - to my letter, but I will keep you all up to date if things should move along.

Innumerable numbers afw (I think we could call you INA FW? Or just INA) Ida's advice is good - basically its what I have done.

Hope everyone has a really god Christmas and I wish consternation to our enemies

[24233513afw]

Hi

 

Sent letter to Cabot and BC that Ida posted in post #13 above according to to Royal Mail site BC got theirs but no sign of any signature for Cabots copy.

 

Would it be advisable to send another copy or wait and see, a bit scared incase they didn't get it and take court action.

 

Like the abbreviations SFU - INA Af or INA sounds good.

 

Would like to change my name on here, but don't think its allowed. It has innumerable numbers but at the time of registration my brain was doing henners and I couldn't think of anything else.

 

Hope everyone had a Great Festive Season and Ida hope you have stopped your digging, however don't put they shovels away as I hear its on its way back soon.

 

Cheers

AFW or INA FW or INA

[seriously fed up]

If you sent this with proof of delivery, then I think you would be within your rights to ask why it doesnt appear to have been delivered, or at least not signed for.

From the dark recesses of my mind I seem to remember that MBNA enjoyed a certain notoriety for not signing for their mail. I am not sure how that ever resolved itself, or if it did. BUT, if Cabot are doing the same - just refusing to sign - then sending another would be good money after bad. I would start off with the post office - something must have happened to the letter - either Cabot took it without a sig, or its in a sorting office. In the latter event, you would have evidence that you tried to make contact and the failure was down to them.

[Bigdebtor]

Following my earlier post (below) Cabot have now written to me at my current address - but give no details other than their own account no - nothing about who the OC is or the amount owed. Since I have never dealt with them then surely I can assume this has been sent in error and just ignore it until things get heavier? I only have 4 months to go until one account is SB - if it's this one they're chasing up and I ignore their letters will this prevent me from being protected by SB?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?281567-Cabot-Harrassemnt-Please-help&p=3187319&viewfull=1#post3187319

 

BD

[seriously fed up]

why dont you ask them for a copy of the agreement, as even post Waksman at the very least it would have to say who the parties to the agreement were - you and whoever the OC might have been. It might be worthwhile adding - "if you are considering court action" - as, if they do go for court action they would need to at least aver that it exists. Remember Cabot work out of England - whoever answers your letter probably wont know this funny Scottish requirement. Either way, it seems to me that you cant lose - they fess up they dont have this (so complete defence) or come up with something (so you see who the OC was, what its all about and what they have got).

My understanding is that the only two things that can prevent an account becoming SB is that you acknowledge it (and I think this means financially - ie make a payment - so in your letter make very clear that the one pound you enclose IS ONLY THE FEE CHARGED FOR THE COPY OF THE DOCUMENT AND NOTHING ELSE - I got a letter from Cabot about a BC account for which i sent £1 for a copy of the agreement and they have credited it to the account) or court action. I dont really see replying to a letter as acknowleding a debt, especially if the tenor of your letter is "I dont know what you are on about". Might be an idea to include "I do not acknowledge any debt to your company" and "without prejudice".

Edited January 10, 2011 by seriously fed up

[Bigdebtor]

SFU

 

Good advice - thanks!

 

I was thinking of doing this - but only after they get tougher - and I suspect they will send a few more "nice" letters first - hopefully not too quickly or often so the SB period can kick in first.

 

Any disadvantage in waiting like I plan to do?

 

BD

[seriously fed up]

no obvious reason. About the only thing that i could think of is that while they have to aver that the agreement exists, its almost certainly the case (at the very least) that many of them take court action knowing full well they dont have this. If their bluff is called they just abandon. Asking for a copy now would winkle them out if they dont have it - on the other hand they might put your £1 to the account, say that this is acknowledgement (its not - its the prescribed fee for a copy, so if they put it to your account that was their doing, and not yours) so the clock for SB starts all over again. Hard one. I would wait and see and act accordingly. If they go to court, I think that resets the SB clock anyway - but you could then get a copy of what they have through the court anyway. My guess is that they will make a lot of noise/ threats and then run away.

[veryweary]

Big Debtor, I would wait and see what they send you next. the least someone can reasonably expect in a letter saying they owe money is where the debt originates from. Without that its's only fit for the bin. Been dealing with them for a couple of years now. They deal with thousands of accounts and yours is just one of many they are chasing. They are a big machine and don't normally turn round fast. Unless you owe a very large amount its unlikely they'll move fast, as they'll need to use a Scottish legal firm and that eats into their profits, especially if you defend.

 

Cheaper for them to try and use their traditional means of persuasion by bombarding your phone with calls every day from different phone numbers. Don't speak or answer the phone calls ever.

[Bigdebtor]

SFU and VW

 

Thanks for that. They only have my work number and went away with a flea in their ear as they kept phoning it - and we have a computer record of all incoming calls - so we told them we would report them for harassmanet. My own phoine is ex directory anmd they don't have my own moblie number either - so their only option is to write. The debt approaching SB in May is around £11k - so pretty big and probably quite high priority for them to chase? I have not shown it in my signature below in case it alerted anyone to try to trace me.

 

If I need to ask for details (if things get heavy) then I was first of all going to do a "I don't know you from Adam - please supply all relevant info to prove you have been assigned a debt in my name by the OC" letter. Since this WON'T produce a signed agreement copy then, from what I've read, a CPUTR 2008 letter is better than just a CCA request with £1 - which would just get the reconstituted guff in return. Can I go straight for this? Does CPUTR 2008 apply in Scotland?

 

BD

[Bigdebtor]

Well

I spoke too soon. Somehow they've got my phone number despite it being ex directory an dhave sent details of what they are chasing, which is an old Barclaycard debt which CSL gave up on about a year ago. They claim they've bought it but predictibly have not sent any evidence to prove it.

They rang me 4 times yesterday and when I said I would not discuss things by phone they said they would continue ringing until I did discuss it.

I plan to send the following letter. Any suggestions/comments as to how to improve it are most welcome:

Dear Sirs

Ref:− Your letter of XX December 2010. Your Ref xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company

I refer to your letter dated dd/mm/yy and now formally request, under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (specifically regulations 5 and 6) and the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on debt collection that you confirm whether you currently hold or have ever held a properly Executed Credit Agreement pertaining to the above account and if so please forward a copy to me by return.

If YOU DO NOT have a signed, properly executed Consumer Credit Act Agreement pertaining to myself, then I require written confirmation by return (CPUTR 2008 reg 5 and 6).

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with such a request.

Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

1.True copy of original credit agreement

2.Statement of account

3.Copy of the executed deed of assignment from the original creditor

4.Fair Processing Notice.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves or any agent or associated company or organisation is made in writing only to the above address or by e-mail. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment.

As this account is now in dispute, I would also draw your attention to The Banking Code section 13.6:-

We may give information to the Credit Reference Agencies about personal debts you owe us if:

·The Amount Owed is Not in Dispute.

The Office of Fair Trading provided a Code of Guidance that is in relation to Debt Collection: OFT 664 Response to consultation paper and final guidance on unfair business practices dated July 2003

Deceptive and/or Unfair Methods-

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:-

k. Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

If you continue in your pursuance of this account I will have no other alternative than to report you to both The Information Commissioner and The Office of Fair Trading (OFT).

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act.

If you do not understand what this means then I would recommend you seek appropriate independent legal advice.

Yours faithfully

 

Big Debtor

[IdaInFife]

nope covers everything

 

if they understand it is a different thing

[seriously fed up]

Have to disagree very slightly Ida - If they WANT to understand - in the wonderful world of Cabot that is a very big IF. I too - think I mentioned this - have been sold into slavery with Cabot by BC. When I learned aboutt this in one of their "hello" letters, I wrote back advising them that the documentation provided to me by BC to demonstrate the account could be enforced had got more pathetic as time wore on (started with an application form that never mentioned the CCA never mind having any prescribed terms on it - though it did have my sig, to be fair - was followed by a computer dump of T&Cs with my name and address typed on the top - thank you HHJ Waksman!). I also asked for a copy of assignment BD - just like you. This drew quite an amazing letter from Cabot. Having claimed to own the account - and gies the money - they suggested that they have nothing to do with providing proof of enforceability - jsut gies the money - and that I should get in touch with BC for this reason.But to show what infinitely nice chaps they are, they would suspend activity on the account for 28 days. But as I hadnt paid anyting for a couple of years, the account had been "promoted" in BC's and now their debt collection activity and if they wanted to, they would send someone along to doorstep me, even though i had explicity (as you have done BD) told them not to. Oh yes, if I wanted proof that BC had sold them the debt, I should contact BC for this.

Basically, BD, its "gies the money", with anything else being a mere distraction. I am sorry that they have got your phone number (I have two or three times a week sessions with Link - "hellos is that you (my name)?", Yes. "I am just looking at your account. You dont want to pay this do you?" - no messing about there - straight in, not even the usual security rubbish - Well I have asked you to provide information showing the account is enforceable, but I also told you that I wont deal with this by telephone, only by correspondence. "We cant do that. We are a phone bank. Why will you not deal with this matter on the phone?" Because I prefer not to. "Why do you prefer not to" ....... discussion then went round and round for a bit, before he concluded "I will just add to your file - customer will not cooperate") Point of the story - they will do what they have to - its "gies the money".

Next time they phone, I read somewhere on here that they (just about all of them) get very shy when you say you are tape recording the call - for some reason they dont like that. They might even tell you its illegal - just tell them its for training and quality purposes.

[Bigdebtor]

Ida and SFU

 

Thanks for your input - I actually found SFU's account of events most encouraging. I'm not scared of the phone calls - and I do tell them to hold on whilst I switch on the tape - but the calls freak out my wife who is of the creditor-friendly Judge persuasion - saying "they gave you the money - now you should pay it back".

 

When I tell her I've repaid BC many times over in interest and charges she tells me I've been a fool (as if I didn't know this only too well already! ) - and she can't get to grips with why Cabot or any DCA would try to "deceive" - after all they're all big reputable companies whose employees are "only doing their job". She seems to think all debtors are just one step away from appearing with Jeremy Kyle!

 

Come to think about it, I think she must be training to be a judge - oh well - all my troubles will be over then once she dons the big red goonie and gets her House of Lords expenses claim in!

 

BD

[bradfordlad]

I know this is a relatively old thread, but I have to say bigdebtor, I love your letter in post #25 - saved it to my favourites!!

[GeoffreyAlby]

Was the letter sent? what was their reply?