One off direct debit problem.

[Supercoley1]

I saw a magazine subscription offer on the internet where it was giving away a free fish tank if you subscribed for 2 years to the magazine.

 

I thought this was quite a good deal so I decided to have a look at how much it was.

 

Advertised as £93 via 24month direct debit.

This to me implied that the direct debit runs for 24 months. increments. Not necessarily monthly but the total period of direct debits would be 24 months.

 

I could afford £4 weekly or £12 a quarter so I went further with this. On each page I looked for detail of the frequency and amount of the direct debits which never appeared in the page even in 'small print'. then I had completed it. Still no idea of how much or the frequency.

 

Upon opening my e-mail and reading the confirmation it then tells me it will be a single direct debit payment taken this month. Now I can't afford that so instantly I e-mailed them back saying I wish to cancel. This was within half an hour of confirming the subscription.

 

They have replied back saying too late the orders have been processed. (within a day for a subscription that doesn't start for another 3 weeks?) and that I would have to cancel payment with my bank and then return the free gift/magazines at my own expense.

 

There are many of us in a thread on an aquatics forum that did this yesterday all about the same time, all assuming it would be increments and all wishing to cancel once we found out it was a single payment. We all see this as the magazine company's fault with misleading wording and also we do not understand why when these tanks/magazines have not yet been despatched they cannot just cancel the subscription and associated order. Our cancellation requests were about as instant as they could be.

 

Is their terminology misleading? 24 month Direct debit? It isn't a 24 month direct debit. It is a single direct debit. It is the subscription that is 24 months.

 

Where do we stand on this. Should they not have clearly detailed this prior to the final confirmation page? I know on all other sites pre confirmation there would be a page detailing frequency and amount asking if you wish to continue.

 

I have replied to their reply saying I am quite happy to pay and quite happy to keep the subscription+tank but not by paying a single one off payment, asking them to make good their error in wording their site as they have and letting all of us (there are a few affected, some have said 'oh well') pay by installments.

 

Any ideas guys?

 

AC

Edited October 1, 2010 by Supercoley1

[squiggley]

Would just like to confirm that exact details of the Direct Debit are not shown until after you have confirmed. I took out a subscription with the above magazine just over 12 months ago and the payments were taken every 3 months and this was what I was expecting again not a one off.

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

Make sure you do contact your bank and ensure that any direct debit set up will be cancelled.

 

Under the Distance Selling regulations, there is no cooling off period for newspapers, periodicals or magazines but as nothing has been sent yet you could argue the point

 

What I would throw at them is "Misleading Prices" This usually covers one price before you buy and then you find out the price is higher once ordered.

 

With the wording you have put up, it does sound like £93 spread over 24 months (to me anyway) and not a one off payment. So I would say that is misleading.

[Supercoley1]

There is a screenshot here, although looks like they have 'reworded' it to say 2 year now!!!:

 

This is the first mention of the actual price and 'method' of payment. From this point on until confirmation thre is no variation from this 'description' always '24 month direct debit' It is only when you get the e-mail confirmation that you are told it will be a one off payment and then 24 months later the next payment will be taken for the next 2 years etc.

 

I know UK law was tightened up a few years ago to catch 'fine print/small print' issues and wonder if that change would cover this. They aren't misleading us in what we will get or the price, nor are we having to pay for something we didn't know about in small print. It is just a question of thinking it was installments only to find out the kids will have to starve this month. lol

 

I hope the DD appears on my banks account before they try and take it!!!

 

AC

[buzby]

Having taken out mag subscriptions for years, I certainly wouldn't think they were offering a staged payment system - indeed only those that offer micro-payments usually state that the monthly charge will be. With no mention, then the standard rule applies, you pay £XX for a subscription lasting 24 months. This naturally means the first payment taken covers the subscription cost and the gift.

 

Using a DD for a payment like this is rather pointless. but publishers like it as it aids processing at their end. It's not as if they could hold out the hope you'll forget to cancel and let it roll on, as it would auto-cancel after 12 months anyway. The point of a subscription apart from getting the mag early to your door, is that there is usually a discount over the cover price because you've paid in advance. Expecting to pay monthly for a monthly magazine AND get a discount or gift is usually a dream - it'll be one or the other.

 

I believe you've simply made the connection that DD = stepped payments, with no basis to support this other than conjecture. As for their cancellation policies, subscribers copies are the first to go out - usually beating newstrade distribution. As such, the address list used to generate the wrappers can be created 3 weeks prior to the wrapping/bagging process, so this has an element of truth. I would believe it up to the consumer to check on how the funds would be taken, rather than assume.

[Supercoley1]

Having taken out mag subscriptions for years, I certainly wouldn't think they were offering a staged payment system - indeed only those that offer micro-payments usually state that the monthly charge will be.

 

I agree with your statement that I have made the association with 'stepped payment' but describing it as they have many others have made the same 'association!!!

 

Also as the second poster says this same magazine used to take the payments quarterly. And as people on forums talk to each other and there is nothing to say they have chaged their payment frequency would it not be natural to assume it was still quarterly or stepped?

 

It seems to me they understand this too as they have altered the wording. I have their reply from the initial complaint which starts The offer did state it would be a 24 month Direct debit so they have already alter the '24 month' to read '2 year' in the screen capture above!!!

 

As for the pre wrapped statement I agree entirely however the purchase was made at 4-58pm. Once finding out it was a single payment the request for cancellation was sent at 5-39pm. less than an hour later. They are trying to tell me that they cannot reverse this order within that timeframe? They must be the most efficient company ever at processing orders. And I doubt anything will be despatched until they take the DD which is planned to be 18/10/10. thats 3 weeks away. therefore I assume they will take payment and then despatch.

 

Also in their confirmation e-mail it suggest it will not auto cancel it says DIRECT DEBIT DETAILS:

We will take your first direct debit payment on 18/10/2010 and then every 24 months thereafter

 

This info was not detailed anywhere through the process of setting up the subscription.

 

 

Not trying to criticise your post at all. I just want to find out where we actually stand. Seems to me their stance is hard luck just pay up and shut up when they could quite easily reverse and cancel the transaction which is not scheduled for nearly 3 weeks time!!!

 

AC

[buzby]

The answers to those questions can only be obtained from the merchant. Conjecture is pointless! As for others making the same mistake, I think you;ll appreciate, that argument is fatally flawed. For those that do get 'caught' were mistaken. What about all those who took out the sub fully expecting to pay up front? :0)

 

They cannot change the Direct Debit rules on a whim, and as far as the banks are concerned, if a debit is not taken after13 months it is removed automatically. If this has changed, I've not heard of this. They of course may do something to keep it alive - for example 'pinging' the account (or similar) to prevent this happening, but we'd need to seee how they try and do it.

 

As they've done nothing wrong in offering a subscription, as long as the price paid, number of issues and the free gift is met they are in the clear. If 'all' you are claiming is that they're not taking it in 24 equal installments (that you thought they meant) you;ve cannot cleam you were misled. Mistaken perhaps, but not misled. You would then have to cancel, pay for whatever had been despatched, and reefuse the delivery of the tank if already sent. At least that'll save sending it back at your expense.

 

DD's are bad news for so many reasons. This is another!

[Supercoley1]

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you entirely r.e. the payment. what I am arguing is their response that they have already processed the order and we will have to return the item when we receive it. They have plenty of time to cancel the depatch and therefore save themselves trouble and save us returning an items. In the old days of peperwork it may take time to find the relevant order but in these days of computers a simple search, and cancellation is all that is required.

 

We aren't arguing over the payment aspect, thats fair enough, our fault, Its just the stance of the publisher that it is 'too late' to cancel.

 

Yes we made a mistake but immediately upon noticing the mistake and within an hour or so of it we asked them to cancel. There is no way that it is too late to cancel any order. They won't be despatching until they get their money so they have 3 weeks until the transaction is complete.

 

AC

[buzby]

I hate defending publishers, but from memory, the Subscriptions website system is outsourced to a third party. Even if you changed you mind after pressing 'send', the effort taken to advise them, and their alacrity in contacting the responsible person to manually discover and identify the subs and reverse or cancel it won't be straightforward (as it might have been in the past). A cheque in the post still has its uses!

[Supercoley1]

2 things then.

 

Outsourcing. I know a little about this because I used to run one of the larger handling houses in the drinks industry. That was all promotional gear once orders were placed. We were always getting through details of cancellations though from the companies who's account we had and no problem even if they were 1 week leadtimes. We cancelled them. Wish I still had that job because then I could afford the one off payment. lol

 

The other part is how would we stand on 'intent to pay' could we cancel the DD and then show intent to pay to protect ourselves then negotiate paymenti.e. £23 a month for 4 months?

 

AC

[squiggley]

Why are they compiling the list immediately, wouldn't it be better for the direct debit to be taken. My previous subscription from them involved a gift and I recieved this and the copy of the magazine before the first quarterly direct debit had been taken.

 

Surely they run the risk of sending gifts out and then having to chase payments from those who direct debits have failed.

[buzby]

The expectation is that the DD will be paid on presentation. A rule of thumb of any new sub is to process it ASAP. It is important for monthly and quarterly publications to prevent the latest issue being missed. So, whilst it will take a week for everything to filter through, setting up the DD, next printing of the labels/poly bag addressing, when it all comes together,it's quite slick. The idea od making it conditional and splitting the process would in most cases, be a needless additional step.

[buzby]

You could try offeting a compromise but they may not be licenced to take deposits, or offer their product on a part-payment basis. All you can do is ask!

[Supercoley1]

I'll try that then.

 

Andy

[Supercoley1]

Well they have finally come back to me after I sent them a very long e-mail.

 

They are performing a miracle by recalling the free gift that was a few days ago impossible to do!!!

 

AC