British Gas & Power Flush

[MrHandyman]

hi vji6697

 

hope I can answer your questions.

 

1) BG offer a lifetime guarantee on powerflushes because the sludge does come back after a certain point. its different for everyone, i've seen it again after 3 years and it can go right up to 15. The lifetime guarantee did however, come in 2003.

 

2) Magnaclean is only worth it if your system is clean to begin with. Magnaclean stops rubbish from gathering in your system when installed, but what is already there will stay there, and still cause problems.

 

My advice would be to request a free reflush as a gesture of goodwill through the field manager, and tell them you would take the magnaclean if you get this flush for free. Otherwise it's not really worth your while.

[MrHandyman]

Go through the call centre, tell them you have a field complaint and advise them to direct it straight to their customer relations department. They send details directly to the field manager or "TSM (Technical Service Manager)" as they are referred to in the call centre, and you will be contacted within a day or 2.

[MrHandyman]

That's good Hope they don't turn round and say that it was initially done a year before the guarantee came in! It's ultimately the Field's call anyway, so moan if they say no and they'll change their mind. Hopefully that's you all sorted.

[MrHandyman]

Quite possibly slick, but irrespective of whether they flushed it or not at install, as long as vji has kept a homecare throughout the years, I don't think they have a leg to stand on as change of system is not specified in the homecare, or powerflush terms and conditions.

[MrHandyman]

what part of the country are you in vji ?

[MrHandyman]

When you call back in ask to be put through to the stockport call centre, as they cover preston. when you do that you can then ask them to phone the field manager on your behalf and ask when he is gonna deal with your complaint. Local service centres always have a list of field managers and direct contact numbers. If they cant help you, ask for an office manager instead.

[MrHandyman]

As a few of you know, I work for British Gas.

 

I don't think it's fair to single out BG as more expensive than independent companies for certain work to be done. A Ford garage would be more expensive to service a car than an independent mechanic. It is standard across all industry for larger companies to be that bit more expensive, and obviously the customer has the choice to accept or go elsewhere for the work at a lower price.

 

With regards to powerflush commission for engineers however, it does happen. This practice is wrong and should never have been introduced in the first place. It has been put to senior managers to remove this practice, and i sincerely hope that they do so soon.

[MrHandyman]

Definitely Slick. From a manager's point of view, my day would be a lot easier without powerflush related complaints.

 

I do understand the necessity for flushing, as sludged and scaled systems would cost the business a lot of money in replacement valves and pumps on a regular basis, but some engineers do quote it to customers as a fix for all problems.

 

From what i've seen, the materials needed to do the work cost BG around about £40 per job, and the engineers make roughly £13 per hour. It is quoted as an 8 hour job. So, say the cost to BG is around £140 - £ 150 maximum. BG could half the average powerflush charge for existing customers, to say £300 instead of £600+, still make a good profit and keep customers happy.

[MrHandyman]

Hi NMF,

 

If the boiler is still shutting off and needs resetting, call BG back and ask that a senior engineer (get over it !!) comes to assess the problem and deal with it properly.

 

If this seems difficult for them, ask that BG get a field manager to contact you to get it resolved.

 

 

NMF,

 

As slick says the best thing to do is to escalate a complaint with the field manager and have a 2nd opinion from them. With regards to the boiler shutting off I find that the main issue is usually a pressure problem, caused by a leak. You'd be surprised how many BG engineers cannot be bothered checking for leaks in a system as a cause of a fault, as it can be a lot of work checking the piping through a whole home.

[MrHandyman]

Jackie,

 

Seems like you live in an area where BG recruit their engineers from the local prisons; it sounds like they're trying to rob you.

 

If all was well before the service, and now there's low pressure, i'd say there is a leak somewhere. If the leak is actually from the Heat Exchanger, i would be asking the Field Manager to call and inspect it as it seems funny the damage is so soon after the service. You can request this through the callcentre.

 

The powerflush is to clean out the system, but probably wouldn't sort the pressure problem. 550.00 for a heat exchanger and p/flush is actually quote good (by BG standards) as i've seen these jobs cost up to 1500 depending on the boiler.

[MrHandyman]

They can still send people out if you don't have a contract, strange that they said they can't.

 

The customer relations department will pass everything onto the field manager. Depending on where in the country you live the time it takes for them to contact you differs. They can sometimes offer you a discount on work needing done, if it is found that it was not BG's fault.

 

Regardless of the status of your contract, the work in question has been done under said contract and the complaint must be investigated regardless. I'm sure the field manager will get something sorted

[MrHandyman]

To be fair NMF, not all problems are sorted first time. Not just with boilers, but with all mechanical equipment, and also with service across all industry.

 

The replacement of one part can in turn require another part to be replaced, and this may not be known until after the initial repair. The job recall rate for BG was less than 4% the last time I checked, and there are a lot of very happy people out there as it is (most of the time) a good service.

 

With regard to your one diagnosis call and one repair call, I personally would suggest giving the engineer another try to get your problem sorted, instead of shooting yourself in the foot and canceling your contract with charges being incurred, or paying for someone else to call fro another company.

[MrHandyman]

Hi Ringoffive,

 

Hope I can answer some of your questions.

 

Firstly, the engineer is quite right; plastic pipes are not covered by BG. It is something to do with dissipation of heat, as plastic pipes do not hold heat as well as copper (as far as i'm aware).

 

Secondly, sludge, dirty water and scale can build up over a period of time. This can be 2, 10, or 25 years depending on where you live in the country, so it is possible that although in a new house, this material passing through could have damaged your heat exchanger. 2 replacements in a short period of time would certainly add weight to this theory.

 

Thirdly, powerflush and magnaclean are quoted as preventative measures as well as remedies, which is really why BG quote them to everyone. It is not always necessary though. In a system where you have 20 radiators, the price given is actually quite reasonable especially from BG.

 

If you still have unanswered technical questions, you can contact the call centre and ask to have your details passed to the area manager, who will in turn contact you.

 

Mr H

[MrHandyman]

Hi JC,

 

As slick has said if you wish to take it further the field manager is the best person to escalate to. I do however, think that he would back up the engineers decision.

 

The reasoning behind the flush is the same as with any other type of care or warranty. Take a car warranty for example. If they tell you in a garage you need to change your anti freeze and you dont, and problems occur because of this over and over again, the garage will not continue to make repairs as they have advised you of a preventative measure. It is the same with a flush; energy companies will not repair pumps and valves 3, 4, 5 times a year when the sludge gets bad in some cases when a flush will prevent it to begin with.

 

Sadly, in both the anti freeze and sludge situatuions, it is up to the owner to pay to have each done.

 

I think any large company will tell you this with a contract, where as smaller companies wont as they can charge per repair, which result from the sludge.

[MrHandyman]

BG engineers get 4hours to do a powerflush

 

I would disagree with that; BG engineers are given anything from between 480 minutes (a full shift) to 720 minutes (a full shift and half the next day) to carry out a powerflush.

[MrHandyman]

it depends which pack they sell ?

a standard flush is 4 Hours anywhere upto 8hours if it needs other work doing such as a reconfigure or a magnaclean

any flush is a standard 8 hour job. as Jasgas has said, 4 hours is for any re-flushing work required.

 

Some British Gas engineers do offer the flush even when it is not needed. As with any job, you will always get the people who don't do it properly but that sort of thing is taken seriously by the field managers.

[MrHandyman]

i would have to disagree with you that bg engineers would advise a powerflush when not needed .

i dont think that any engineer would offer a powerflush if they didnt think it was needed .now maybe sometimes it doesnt fix the problem and you could say this was mis selling but i do not think any engineer would do this as they would get found out and look very silly .(best advice ).

i to have been at BG for 20 years and have just left the company .

if a powerflush is quoted and a magnaclean and reconfigure then yes this would be around 8 hours depending on area and size of system ..eg number of rads..like you say thats around £700 .

 

i would say as an engineer at BG you are dammed if you do and dammed if you dont , if you tell a customer that there is a fault with there system it is some how your fault (normally its the cowboy plumber that fit it).

and if we dont tell the customer we get slagged off for not telling them ..

these forums are a great place to come and slag off big companys but the truth is bg work very hard in training their engineers to very high standards (far higher than most plumbers)

 

You're right, it does look silly if they get found out. However, it does happen as everyone is under pressure to make targets and be seen to be promoting products. I'm a senior manager within BG on the office side, and i've seen a lot of complaints in my time with the company, but as is the way with the public, they just enjoy complaining and most of the time have no grounds. However, I think it just takes a thorough explanation of the powerflush for the customer to understand what it is and why it is needed.

[MrHandyman]

dissipation of heat ???

 

i thought plastic pipe was covered on homecare ??as long as its the right plastic pipe for the job ..

 

preventative measures , if a powerfush was advise for a preventative measures this would be cearly misselling as you would only need a powerflush if the system needed flushing ,why would you flush a clean system (sorry Mr customer we are going to charge you £700 just in case it gets sludge in later ) your joking right ...i would never advise a flush if i didnt feel like it needed one ..

 

I'm not sure why you're going through my previous posts looking for faults obviously you're not here to give any good advice or help people. Why sign up?

 

If you were an engineer, surely you would know that it is up to the attending engineer to decide if the pipe can be accepted on to contract and subsequently repaired?

 

I signed up here to help where I can, and to give an honest opinion of someone within the company. I'll help where I can, with regards to the BG terms and conditions and what they can and can't offer. It may not be what the users want to hear, or may not be the best solution, but I'll always make sure that I do everything to help them either address a complaint, or understand why an engineer has done or told them something.

 

The messages in my inbox of thanks from multiple users confirm that I am helping

 

There is no point posting on here if you merely have a grudge against BG and wish to inflict your useless posts upon the rest of the community.

[MrHandyman]

And then you get the BG Engineer I had who quoted the BG price, said his ex-BG mate would do it for half price, fixed my system by putting in a closed valve so my radiators didn't work, flooded and wrecked my daughter's bedroom, and then

 

wait for it

 

the evil witch at British Gas claims department said I could have fitted the closed valve myself. Of course, I really wanted a flood in a newly decorated bedroom. Wouldn't we all?

Again, this is an excellent example of poor service. I ask you, heating-eng to explain why an engineer would do such a thing and cause such problems, but have moral issues when it came to mis-selling flushes?

[MrHandyman]

I was reading through the posts to see if I could help anybody but was a bit concerned on reading some of your comments and find it hard to believe you are a senior manager at BG with some of the comments you have made .

“Seems like you live in an area where BG recruit their engineers from the local prisons; it sounds like they're trying to rob you” (sorry but this concerns me).

 

It’s up to the attending engineer ? ( this is not true we have pipes that are covered and pipes that are not ) it’s not up to the engineer ,the engineer looks to see if the pipe is covered or not.

 

An honest opinion ( of somebody who works in an office and has little or no knowledge about the said questions ) how is this helping ?.

 

I have no grudge at all with BG , I am however concerned about some of the comments you have made ?.

 

I feel like I have made some fair points here and would ask if you could be so kind as to answer the above questions , mainly the BG robbing you one.

I am happy to address each of your points when I am online, heating-eng, I would appreciate if you do not Private Mail me to badger me to do so

 

It is up to the attending engineer, in the sense that it is up to them to advise if the pipe is acceptable under BG maintenance. Again, they can sometimes be mistaken that certain types of pipes are or aren't included.

 

Correct, it is my opinion. I give my opinion to forumers as well as what BG's most likely actions or responses will be; these 2 things are not always the same.

 

I do work in the office; I also work from the same set of T&Cs as the engineers which means that we all work from the same set of rules and so if the engineers do not follow them, it doesn't take an Engineering Degree for me to spot this.

 

My teams deal with complaints all day where engineer's work quality is brought into question, so I do have to have a decent knowledge of what is done when situations arise.

 

I would appreciate if your future posts were directed to helping other members, and hold no further reference to this conversation as I wont take part in this childish game anymore. If you have any problems with my future posts however, then please feel free to reply to said posts and I certainly will be happy to discuss them in more detail with you then

[MrHandyman]

It is certainly the case that when advised you need a flsuh BG do not need to be the ones who do it. Many local companies offer similar services with similar results so you might be worth phoning around a few for some info.

 

However, as people have said above the engineer should be fixing this blockage regardless as long as this is the first time you have been told a powerflush is required, and your boiler has already been accepted on to contract on a previous first service.

 

How many visits in total (repairs and services) have you had from BG since you took out the contract?

[MrHandyman]

Hi Doctorfox

 

The BG powerflush currently comes with a lifetime guarantee as long as you keep a continuous homecare agreement. I'm not sure when the lifetime guarantee was introduced (2001 rings a bell) but what I would do is contact the call centre, tell them you want your "free reflush" as you have previouly had a flush.

 

If they say that you had it done before the lifetime guarantee was introduced, ask to have the details escalated to the Service Manager and escalate higher until they re-do it for you - make enough noise and you should get a reflush, and hopefully avoid any costs.

 

Mr H

[MrHandyman]

Glad to hear it.

 

They will have passed your details to the area planning team - you'll simply get a call to book the appointment at a convenient time. Hopefully that will be you sorted.

[MrHandyman]

Hi Flashay

 

Sorry to hear about your problems.

 

A friend of mine had a similar issue where they got only warm water, not hot. The way they found around it was to run the hot taps only at half power, to reduce the demand on the boiler. After a few mins this always gives them boiling hot water.

 

Sadly i'm not an engineer so can't diagnose further!

 

If you are unhappy at the engineer's resolution you can always request a visit from the service manager by calling the call centre and raising a field complaint for a 2nd opinion.

 

Mr H

[MrHandyman]

Hmm...the Service Managers can sometimes be like that, as they want as many additional upgrade jobs (i.e. powerflushes) as possible.

 

Sometimes they do tag along on jobs where there have been multiple visits in a short period without the customer having to ask.

 

It does seem odd that you get hot water, and then it goes warm.

 

If you have a "cover" agreement, then you could certainly look down the route of a complaint to the ombudsman. These complaints are generally treated differently by BG, as they are seen as "high level". If BG have not provided you with a decent level of service then that is certainly grounds for complaint.

 

Mr H