reload vs Capital One

[reload]

Time to start sticking my head back into these forums a bit more

 

SAR will be sent to Capital One tomorrow. I may actually give them a call and ask for duplicate statements tonight - never know your luck, I guess.

[reload]

Well, after spending 4 minutes 52 seconds fighting my way through their bloody IVR on the line to either Bangalore or Mumbai (wherever their callcentre is based) I selected an option to 'speak to an account manager'. I requested copies of all statements since the account was opened, and was promised they'll be with me within 5 working days.

 

We'll see

[chriswatkins]

I phoned for mine too, it took about a week for them to come, but at least I didnt have to pay for them

[reload]

Must say I'm quite impressed. Full set of statements (although the account is only about 18 months old) turned up today!

[Joa]

You are very lucky. I have been asking for mine for 2 months now and each time they apologise and promise, cross their heart, whatnot, so i wait and I swear to myself, that's it, it's SAR time.

So in the meantime, I have defaulted, because they wallop me on the head with charge after charge.

I have done the deed with Lloyds, so this time at least I know roughly what are my options!

[reload]

Knocking up a prelim approach now. I'm planning to pre-empt their £8/charge offer, and also reiterate the OFT's statement about them not believing a £12 figure is a fair charge. Essentially replying to their template letter before they send it. Will be amusing to see whether they actually spend time replying personally or just use the template letter regardless

[reload]

Right, planning on sending this to Capital One tomorrow:

 

Might be a vain hope that Mr Udy himself will read and reply personally, but it's worth a go.

 

Large chunks of it are borrowed from the standard prelim letter, with some bits from myself, one or two choice phrases from Bean I believe it was, and some bits directly from the OFT report

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

Dear Sir,

 

I am writing to request the refund of the sum of £360 in penalty charges applied to my account. Subsequent to a thorough appraisal of the press release issued by the Office of Fair Trading, it has been brought to my attention that:

 

“Where credit card default charges are set at more than £12, the OFT will presume that they are unfair, and is likely to challenge the charge unless there are limited, exceptional business factors in play. A default charge is not fair simply because it is below £12. Setting a threshold for intervention is a pragmatic pro-consumer action that is designed to give the industry the opportunity to change its practice without litigation.”

 

Not wishing to pre-empt your standard, templated response to the “Request for repayment of charges” letter provided by the http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk website, but this statement categorically lays out the fact that the OFT do not view £12 to be a fair figure. Furthermore, they go on to elaborate that:

 

“The OFT is not proposing that default fees should be equivalent to the threshold, and a court will certainly not consider that a default fee is fair just because it is below the threshold.”

 

Your continued assertion that “The OFT has said it believes default fees of £12 are likely to be fair” in your template response to other members of the Consumer Action Group website is therefore entirely false.

 

Due to the above reasons, I consider the regime of £20 fees you have been applying to my account in respect of “Late Payment Fees” and “Overlimit Fees” is unlawful with regard to Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary. I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them. Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter, and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

If after the 14 days following my Letter Before Action you still have not responded to my satisfaction, I will be issuing a claim via the Small Claims court to recover the £360 unlawfully taken from my account. Furthermore, should I be forced to file a claim, you will additionally be liable for the £50 court cost as well as £18.77 in statutory 8% interest.

 

It is my understanding that it is your practice to offer a goodwill refund of the difference between the £20 charges you make, and the £12 intervention limit suggested by the OFT. This would make a figure of £144.00. I would be willing to accept such an offer as a partial payment of the balance, however I have to inform you that in such a case I would continue to pursue the outstanding amount – through the Courts if necessary.

 

As you contend that your current charges are both fair and legal, I politely request you furnish me with evidence that the £20 charge is a reasonable representation of your costs. A breakdown of your expenditure incurred for late payment and overlimit fees will certainly provide me with satisfactory information in my evaluation as to whether your fees are, in fact, fair and legal.

 

Yours faithfully,

[elsinore]

Good stuff Reload. I think Cap 1 do actually read our letters (unlike LTSB!) and respond accordingly. They certainly did with me.

 

It might be something to do with compliance, after that debacle over the PPI T & Cs.

 

Anyway, I'm just reciprocating the support you have previously given me and I'm sure you'll prevail.

 

Elsinore

[carl hussell]

I got a letter back from capital one yesterday offering £270 as a goodwill gesture ..etc as long as i leave them alone lol, what should i send to them, as i want the full £600

[reload]

Hi Carl,

 

First of all - you'd be best off starting your own thread to ask questions/post your progress in

 

Head over to the Bank Templates Library and have a look at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejection-settlement-offer.html. Should do what you need.

[carl hussell]

No probs sorry for cutting in on your thread..........

[datxman]

Reload I must say that is a great letter and I / we would be intrested in any reponse that you may receive in due course. I hope that you are going to post it on here like you normally do.

 

Good luck

[reload]

Will definately be posting any response I get datxman - if I bleeding well get one!

 

5 days and counting Mr Udy...

[reload]

Well, got in from work today to two letters at once - just typed the Barclays one up, Capital One's turn now.

 

Dear Mr reload,

 

Thank you for taking the time to write to us about the fees we've added to your account. I understand you think these fees are unlawful and I'm sorry you feel this way.

 

To explain, we automatically add late payment fees if your payment is missed, arrives late or isn't enough to cover your minimum payment. We'll add overlimit fees if your balance goes over your agreed credit limit, which is £200.

 

When we opened your account in May 2005, we sent you a credit card agreement which stated these fees. By signing and returning this to us, you agreed to the terms and conditions for the account.

 

As you're probably aware, the Office of Fair Trading are not challenging the right of banks to charge default fees, but merely the level of those fees. Although we feel £20 is a just fee, we have reduced our charges to £12 so we are in line with our competitors.

 

I've reviewed your account and, as a matter of goodwill, I'd like to reduce the fees we've added to your account £12. So I can do these refunds totalling £168, please sign and return the settlement form I've included. Once I get back I'll add these refunds to your account.

 

To avoid more fees, you need to make sure we receive your monthly payments on time. On your statement, you'll find your payment due date and a date we recommend you make your payments by. Also, you need to make sure your balance doesn't go over your credit limit.

 

I hope I've explained things clearly and you're happy with the steps I've taken. However, if you have any further questions, please write back to me within four weeks. My address is in the leaflet I've included, which also explains our complaints procedure. If I don't hear from you, I'll consider that you're happy with my response and that your complaint is closed.

 

Yours sincerely

 

(Printed signature)

 

Robert Udy

Executive Office Manager

 

Attached were the following:

 

I confirm my acceptance of Capital One's offer of £168. This action by Capital One is accepted by me as closure of my complaint.

 

A one-big-box form with the text "We'd be very grateful if you could take a few moments of your time to give us your comments on the way that we've handled your complaint, this is so that we have the opportunity to improve our service in the future."

 

A "Please tell us when we make a mistake... ...because nobody's perfect"

 

... and a prepaid envelope to the "Executive Response Centre".

 

Soooo... I wonder what I'm going to do here...

 

First of all: A Letter Before Action. I'll customise this in a similar way to my prelim, and I'm expecting a touch of sarcasm to slip in to my phrasing. The comment "Thank you for ignoring the content of my Preliminary Approach Letter. Please fill this form out so I can know in future how to capture the attention of the peons in your office who read these letters, and force them to actually address the points I raise" may be included...

 

Ok, I lie. I will most certainly, however, be telling them that I am willing to accept their preliminary offer in partial payment of my complaint, that I have edited, signed and returned their settlement letter accordingly - and that:

 

I hope I've explained things clearly and you're happy with the steps I've taken. However, if you have any further questions, please write back to me within fourteen working days. My address is at the top of this letter, which also details my complaint for the second time in the hope you will respond personally. If I don't hear from you, or I do not hear a satisfactory response offering full and final settlement or the remainder of the outstanding balance after the initial refund is made, I'll consider that you're happy with the fact that I shall be submitting County Court proceedings against your company with no further warning.

 

I mean, really. I know as a Pinky I shouldn't be seen to abuse the banks or make any potentially libellous comments, but what a patronising pile of a***.

 

Fine, Mr Udy. You want to stick your head in the sand and let one of your underlings handle my letter with a standard template? Boy oh boy, this should be entertaining. Will post up my reply in full tomorrow

[elsinore]

I mean, really. I know as a Pinky I shouldn't be seen to abuse the banks or make any potentially libellous comments, but what a patronising pile of a***.

 

Oh! go on reload, spoil yourself!

 

BTW you've ruined my evening.

There was I thinking that that nice Mr Udy had sent me a personal, individual, carefully prepared response and now I find it was exactly the same as yours (apart from the figures, of course)!

 

Altogether, to the tune of Dad's Army........

"Who do you think you are kidding Mr Udy, when you write such piles of cr*p?"

 

Elsinore

[karens25]

hi reload..

just sashayed over here to nick a few lines from your dear mr udy thanks but no thanks letter... waiting for you to post with bated breath.. hope its soon, i cant wait..

karen

[datxman]

Well I may just borrow a few lines from your Prelim. letter as I love it so much.

 

Just working out how much Crap one owe me and I will be sending it today.

 

I will keep you informed as well

[reload]

Right, here we go. Sorry it's so late in the day to anyone interested, been a bit busy today.

 

Dear Mr Udy,

 

Thank you for your letter dated 22 September 2006. I am writing to accept your settlement offer of £168 in partial settlement of the fees you’ve added to my account. I understand you have to follow the company policy regarding penalty refunds, and I’m sorry you must patronise me this way.

 

To explain, you are correct that the Office of Fair Trading’s report of the 5th of April 2006 does indeed not challenge the right of Credit Card companies to levy ‘default charges’. However, it does also state that “A default charge is not fair simply because it is below £12”, and that “Setting a threshold for intervention is a pragmatic pro-consumer action that is designed to give the industry the opportunity to change its practice without litigation”. Whilst I can understand the pragmatism behind reducing your fees so they are ‘in line with’ your competitors, this most certainly does not mean a refund of the difference in your previous unlawful rates and your current unlawful rates will satisfy all of your customers – even those with an agreed credit limit of £200.

 

When I opened my account in May 2005, it was under the explicit implication that the contract was to be operated under UK law. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. The fact that you have not done so, and have deceived every individual who has an account with Capital One over the nature of your ‘default charges’ does not inspire my confidence in employing you as my fiduciary, and certainly does not mean the clause within the contract surrounding these charges is legally binding. Responding to my carefully written letter with a standardized template response does not go any length to improving this situation, and although it may prove a small gesture, I may well consider closing my account.

 

As you’re probably aware, I have included an edited and signed copy of your settlement agreement. This letter is to be considered a Letter Before Action, “so you can do these refunds totalling £168” whilst I pursue you for the remaining balance of £192 plus interest plus court costs, through the County Court system if necessary. It is my sincere hope that you will acknowledge this letter seriously and enter into a dialogue resulting in the refund of this remaining balance, rather than replying with another pre-formatted template letter, which may well result in my using one of your competitors.

 

I hope I've explained things clearly and you're happy with the steps I've taken. However, if you have any further questions, please write back to me within fourteen working days. My address is at the top of this letter, which also details my complaint for the second time in the hope you will respond personally. If I don't hear from you, or I do not hear a satisfactory response offering full and final settlement or the remainder of the outstanding balance after the initial refund is made, I'll consider that you're happy with the fact that I shall be submitting County Court proceedings against your company with no further warning. A full refund of the £360, and my complaint will be closed.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

reload

 

You may notice one or two similarities between my and their last letters... will be entertaining to see if anyone at Capital One notices

[ragsta]

hi reload, can i ask what address you sent your preliminary letter to. thanx

[reload]

Hi ragsta,

 

Capital One Bank Europe Plc

C/O Robert Udy

PO Box 5283

Nottingham

NG2 3YG

 

Was the address I sent my prelim to. However, "Executive Response Centre" is the first line of the address from the reply I got.

[karens25]

hey reload

well worth waiting for!..absolutely brilliant...

thanks

k

[reload]

Transactions Since Your Last Statement

 

Details Paid In Paid Out

 

30 Sep OVERLIMIT FEE CHARGED on 30 Sep 12.00

 

 

[breadline]

lovin it..

[reload]

Ello all, been a while since I've helped out/updated my threads etc, been a mite busy 'out there'. Anyway - Moneyclaim to go in later

 

Another month, another overlimit fee charged. Once the cash comes in from this one, this account is most definately being closed down. 40% interest rates my nipple!

 

I have a contract with Capital One Europe (Plc), account number xxxxxxxxxx opened in 05/05 and conducted on their standard terms and conditions. I am claiming return of money taken by the defendant in the way of charges totaling £384. As a disproportionate penalty these charges are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. I have repeatedly asked the bank to justify their charges but they have declined to do so. I claim interest under section 69 of the county court act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from (29/08/2005) to (31/10/2006) of £22.57 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.08. I therefore claim a total of £406.57 (£384 + £22.57 interest).

[ragsta]

Reload you have not stated the date your account was opened. In the Mcol guide it says you must state it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/34887-5-money-claim-line.html

 

putting my claim in 2moro aswle gud luk