1st Credit & LCS Battle - court papers received - help

[newman]

Any charge of '' failing to produce'' the CCA I think would have no merit in front of a judge,

this offence no longer being on the statute.

Selling or assigning a debt whilst in dispute, well you can report this to the OFT, however

1st Credit, Connaught, LCS Solicitors are very good at ensuring that Final Response Letters

are sent so again I believe such a ''charge'' would fail.

As to the interest it does depend on the contract if they can or cannot charge.

 

Thanks Brigadier

Technically 1st Crud havent sold or assigned the debt as LCS & Connaughts are all one and the same thing. Citi financial are the only ones who sent a final response and I havent had one of thoise from 1st Crud.

 

What was in dispute was thwe fact that Citi FInancial assigned my account to 1st Crud in the first place without even giving me a default notice. On one of the forums (I can remeber if it is this one as I have been looking at so much stuff) I recall someone posting that a customer needs to be warned that their account is going to be defaulted to give them time to rectify the situation. In my case this never happened and !st credit even stated that they thoiught this was irrelevant and asked me to state why I believed it was!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

In that case you should take the OC to task on that.

 

The Way 1st credit work is to task Connaught to collect when initial approaches b1s fail to produce a result.

I think that you need to raise a formal complaint with all parties to provoke a final response after which you can go to FOS.

The Default notice explains to a debtor what action is needed to remedy the default,failure to make such remedy

invokes the default.

I get the impression that this is a ''simple'' assignment for 1st to collect on the OC's behalf from the details you have given so a simple notice of assignment

should have been issued by the OC, 1st credit or both.

Is their a default on your credit file?

[newman]

In that case you should take the OC to task on that.

 

The Way 1st credit work is to task Connaught to collect when initial approaches b1s fail to produce a result.

I think that you need to raise a formal complaint with all parties to provoke a final response after which you can go to FOS.

The Default notice explains to a debtor what action is needed to remedy the default,failure to make such remedy

invokes the default.

I get the impression that this is a ''simple'' assignment for 1st to collect on the OC's behalf from the details you have given so a simple notice of assignment

should have been issued by the OC, 1st credit or both.

Is their a default on your credit file?

 

Well the original notice of assignment came from Citi Financial to which I immediately made a formal complaint and got the FOS involved. I then received a letter a week later from 1st Credit informing me that my account had been assigned to them.

 

I havent checked my credit file for a while but I will have a look to see if there is a default on there and report back.

 

I have just sent a letter to 1st Credit and have sent connaughts and J&P a copy too. I havent made reference to the claim form but have offered them a conditional agreement. My reasoning for this approach is that from what I understand, if I am not contending the fact that I owe them the money but am accepting full liability providing they can provide me with the proof, then this means there is no controvesy upon which a court could adjuicate.

 

I will post my letter up in a while.

 

I also intend to make formal complaints now to as many bodies as I can. - I am spitting feathers now as they say.

[newman]

I have just checked the last credit report I had which shows that my account was in fact defaulted on the 31-05-07 and I wasnt informed by Citi that they had assigned my account to 1st Crud until 11/06/07. I was never informed by Citi or 1st Credit that a default was going to be registered on my account. - I am wondering if I can use this in any defence I put together

 

1ST CREDIT LIMITED Unsecured loan

Default £6,727

Name: MR xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

Address: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Date of birth: xx/xx/xx

Company name: 1ST CREDIT LIMITED

Account type: Unsecured loan (personal loans etc)

Default Balance: £6,727

Current Balance: £6,727

Defaulted On: 31/05/2007

File Updated for the Period to: 23/12/2007

 

 

A defaulted account is removed from your report after six years

whether or not you have paid the debt in full. If you have paid

some of the debt off, the balance should show how much you still

owe.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

You can certainly state the fact you did not receive the DN an there for you were

unable to remedy the default within the required time limit.

That really all you can say,apart from putting the to strict proof of delivery of the DN.

[newman]

You can certainly state the fact you did not receive the DN an there for you were

unable to remedy the default within the required time limit.

That really all you can say,apart from putting the to strict proof of delivery of the DN.

 

Thats a great start as you are quite right in that I had no opportunity to remedy the default. One of the 1st Cruds staff that I talked to actually admitted to me on the phone that he had no record on his system of any default notice being sent out to me.

 

Citi actually wrote to me in 2008 and stated "we are under no obligation to comply with your request for a copy of your agreement under the Consumer Credit Act as we no longer have a contractual relationship with you, nor are we seeking to enforce any agreement against you. Your right ot be provided with this information from Citi Financial ended with the assignement of your debt to 1st Credit Limited"

 

I am assuming that if this went to court the fact that the default was issued on the same day as they assigned the account means they would have to provide an answer for this - or would they jusyt pass the buck to 1st Credit. I ask because my credit file shows the default as being with 1st Credit.

 

I intend to put them on strict proof of the delivery of the DN when and if it ever gets to court.

[newman]

It is also interesting to note that in all of the letters I wrote to Citi asking them to tell me why I was not informed that a default was going to be put on my file, I never received any answers to this qurestion.

 

Another question Brigadier.

 

In a letter I wrote to 1st Credit in Nov 2007 (which I gleaned the information from this forum) I wrote that because they had not provided me with a copy of the agreement that this negated any Notcie of Default being served on me as required by the CCA 1974 and that if documentation were to be produced, they would be aware that a default notice serves to cancel any original terms and conditions and as such cancelled any right that they or the original creditor miught have, implied or otherwise to share my information without my consent.

 

DO you know if this is still true?

Edited June 27, 2011 by newman

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Buck passing is the most likely scenario.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

To your other questions i really think that line will muddy the waters stick to what obvious

[dx100uk]

what absolute poppy crap......

 

citi are very well know for doing this

they prob dont have the paperwork as with 99% of citi stuff

 

lots of threads about this on here.

 

when was YOUR last financial transaction please.

 

dx

[newman]

what absolute poppy crap......

 

citi are very well know for doing this

they prob dont have the paperwork as with 99% of citi stuff

 

lots of threads about this on here.

 

when was YOUR last financial transaction please.

 

dx

 

Thanks DX

 

THe last payment I made to Citi was 05/11/07 even though they had sold the debt to 1st Crud we still made the payment to Citi. We did inform 1st Crud that as the account was in dispute we would not make payments to them but continue to make them to Citi.

[newman]

Well I have to say that the old adage "seek and ye shall find" is certainly true when it comes to this site.

 

I decided to spend the last few hours doing more research and I came across THIS thread which is almost a mirror image of mine.

 

I have now got 19 pages on a word document for which to use for letters and to put together my defence if I ever need it - so huge thanks to the site team and to Enron & IJHP for their fantastic input, suggestions and letters.

 

Huge thanks also to everyone who has helped me to date on this thread - the battle continues.

 

I will post my letter sent yesterday in a separate post but I just wanted to say a huge thanks to all who make this site possible - when I have some spare cash I will make a donation that is a promise.

Edited June 28, 2011 by newman

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Well done and good luck!!

[newman]

what absolute poppy crap......

 

citi are very well know for doing this

they prob dont have the paperwork as with 99% of citi stuff

 

lots of threads about this on here.

 

when was YOUR last financial transaction please.

 

dx

 

DX - Thanks very much for your comment and it has taken me a good few hours to trawl through other threads on this site so no work done today, however, what I have found is pure gold and I hope will keep me pon the straight and narrow as things progress with this case.

 

I have sent a letter off to 1st Credit, J&P & Connaiughts yesterday so that they all have a copy of it. I have pasted it here and I am hoping that by offering them conditional agreement they wont be so stupid as to keep this going on to court. If they do then I have as a back up all of the CPR letters, embarrassed defences, no / Incorrect DN statements and all of the other good stuff that is contained primarily in IJHP's post.

 

Copy of my letter

Non-Negotiable

© xxxxxx: xxxx Authorised Representative for

XXXXXXX™ and all derivatives thereof.

C/o Address

Mr Gavin Flynn, Head of Collections, 1st Credit, PO Box 278, Reigate, RH2, 7WB

 

27/06/2011

 

Dear Mr Flynn

 

RE 1st Credit Limited Ref No xxxx; Connaught Collections &Judge & Priestly Ref No xxxxx

 

I have received two letters recently from Judge and Priestly Solicitors dated: 13/05.2011 & 03/05/2011

 

I feel this matter is very serious and I wish to deal with it in writing.

 

I have, on several occasions in the past requested that all correspondence relating to this matter be dealt with in writing, however, your company and those associated with you, namely Connaught Collections; seem to feel that it is acceptable to totally ignore this. Recently I have received several phone calls from Connaught Collections who are a trading style of your company and despite requesting that they cease calling me and remove my telephone number from their/your database, they have chosen to totally ignore my reasonable requests, and have continued to harass me by continuing to call me to discuss this matter. On the 24/06/2011 a representative from Connaught Collections called me twice and refused outright to remove my details from their records. He also refused to give me his name.

 

I log the dates and times of all calls/messages and these calls now constitute ‘harassment’. Because of this harassment, I intend to take action under Section 1 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 and Administration of Justice Act 1970 S.40, which makes it a Criminal Offence for a creditor or a creditor's agent to make demands (for money), which are aimed at causing 'alarm, distress or humiliation', because of their frequency or manner, which they have now succeeded in doing.

 

To reiterate, I do not give you, Connaught Collections, Judge & Priestly Solicitors, LCS Solicitors or any other company you may trade as, or who are a trading style of your company, or whom you may request to assist you in relation to this matter, permission to contact me by telephone.

 

Please read the following thoroughly and very carefully before responding. The reason why you need to read very carefully is simple. I am offering your company conditional agreement. This removes controversy, and means that you no longer have any ultimate recourse to a court of law in this matter, because there is no controversy upon which it could adjudicate. You always have the option of dragging these conditions into a court of law only to be told that they are, indeed, perfectly lawful. That is, of course, always your prerogative should you decide to waste your time.

 

For this reason it is important that you carefully consider this notice and respond in substance, which means actually addressing the points raised herein. The 'nearest official form' will not suffice, and consequently is likely to be ignored by myself without any dishonour on my part.

 

On the other hand there is a time-limit on the agreement being offered. It is reasonable, and if it runs out then you and all associated parties are in default, removing any and all lawful excuse on your part for proceeding

in this matter.

 

In the matter of the request for my payment of £6,727.12, I would be very happy to settle any financial obligation I might lawfully owe as soon as I have received the following documentation from you:

 

1 Verification of your claim against me (a sworn affidavit or a hand signed invoice in accordance Bills of Exchange Act (1882) );

2 A Copy of a lawful contract signed by both parties and therefore binding both parties.

3 Validation of the debt (the actual accounting)

 

I hereby give you ten (10) days from the above date to reply to this notice. Your said failure to provide the aforementioned documentation will constitute your agreement to the following terms:

 

1 That you are a third party interloper;

2 You have no legal standing; no first-hand knowledge of this matter;

3 Your claim is fraudulent;

4 Any damages I suffer you will be held culpable;

5 You agree to pay all fee schedules;

6 That any negative remarks made to a credit reference agency will be removed

7 That you will no longer pursue this matter any further

 

Should you provide sufficient evidence that I owe your organisation or your client any outstanding amount and that you can provide proof that they have assigned you agency, I should be happy to pay any verified claim in full.

 

NB This is not a complaint or a query or a request for a statement / agreement and is not to be treated as one. Do not refer to me as Mr or any Title, which is a legal fiction and is not me. You may only use my name when sending payment.

Yours sincerely

By: Sovereign © First name : Last Name

Authorised Representative

All Rights Reserved. Errors & Omissions Excepted

 

CC: Judge & Priestly, Justin House, 6 West Street, Bromley, Kent, BR1 1JN

Connaught Collections, The Omnibus Building, Lesbourne Road, Reigate, RH2 7JP

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE – WITHOUT RECOURSE – NON-ASSUMPSIT

 

Without any admission of any liability whatsoever, and with all Natural, Inalienable, Rights reserved.

 

Please address all future correspondence in the matter to a direct Human Self, namely First Name : of the family, as commonly called last name

[debt4get]

before someone else comes on with some detailed advice..first thing is not too panic...what they are hoping is that you will not defend the claim...so the first thing you are gonna need to do..especially as you are disputing the amount and the agreement, is to send in the form that you are going to defend the claim...then you need to get the letter off to them to get all the paperwork that they intend to rely on in court..

[debt4get]

sorry for my post somehow must have come in a long way down the thread...

[newman]

before someone else comes on with some detailed advice..first thing is not too panic...what they are hoping is that you will not defend the claim...so the first thing you are gonna need to do..especially as you are disputing the amount and the agreement, is to send in the form that you are going to defend the claim...then you need to get the letter off to them to get all the paperwork that they intend to rely on in court..

 

Hi debt4get

When I received the claim form the very first thing I did was to go online and complete the AOS and absolutely ticked the " I intend to defend all of this claim" box.

 

The next thing I did was prepare the letter I have pasted above and have sent that off yesterday RD to all & sundry. This is an approach a friend of mine has used with a lot of success and it involves, firstly accepting conditionally the amount stated and then if the DCA/Creditor dont come up with the information requested then by default the DCA/creditor is into a a tacit agreement with you. It takes about 30 days to get hem into a tacit agreement so with a CPR15:5 extension, I have plenty of time to prepare a defence if I need it.

 

I am going to use this strategy in tandem with the CPR route too. I am going to request an extension under CPR 15:5 and then a N244 if they refuse. I am also going to CPR 31:14 and then also a CPR 18 if necessary

 

Having now spent numerous hours on this forum and with 19 pages of information gleaned, i think I have an idea of the way forward. I really like some of the suggestions by silly girl1 and Pt2537 in http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?283443-Embarrassed-Defences-and-the-problems-with-them./page3 thread. I am not going to enter an ED but the advice there is priceless and I agree totally with Silly girl to keep it simple and direct.

 

I am dealing with an absolute bunch of muppets at 1st Crud and I am now treating them as professionally as I can but with the contempt they absolutely deserve.

 

I have had to put up with a lot of crap from this bunch and I feel it is time to fight back as they are now trying what I hope is their last ditch attempt to get me to roll over!!

 

 

GRRRRRRR (Teeth showing)

[newman]

#### Update ######

 

Well my letters have all arrived safely and have all been signed for. Interestingly the letter that arrived at the J&P office had an illegible signature and the name of the person that signed it was J+P!!!

 

Also very interestingly both my letters to Connaughts and 1st Crud were signed at the same time on the same morning by the same person!!! Well they do make it clear on their letters that Connaughts are only a trading style of 1st Crud!

 

So now they have arrived I am going to also put part two into action and request an extension under CPR15:5

 

Also just about to speak with OFT & trading standards about the way Connaughts have been harrasing me despite several very clear written requests that I do not wish to deal with this on the phone.

 

Oh the joy of life dealing with low lifes!!

 

Well come on Andy Murray thats all I can say today.

Edited July 1, 2011 by newman

[newman]

##### Update - Help required Please #####

 

Well this is an interesting turn of events.

 

A letter has arrived from Connaught collections today (very quick response) and I would appreciate advice/help/suggestions as to how to respond to this / or if I should respond at all. It is very short so I will type it here word for word exactly as it has come in. I have also pasted my letter to them as i didnt put it above.

 

I only copied Connaughts so that I had covered all bases as it was Gavin Flynn Head of Collections 1st Credit that my 1st letter was addressed to and I wrote in big CAPS in PEN; COPY on the letter that went to Connaiughts so that they could see what I had sent to 1st Crud (even though they are one and the same thing!).

 

Your thoughts are most welcomed.

 

-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-

 

Connaught Collections Their address

 

Soveriegn (thats their incorrect spelling) © Wxxxxxx : Sxxxx

C/o Then my address as I put it on my letter

 

Date 28 June 2011

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

Thank you for your recent undated Letter (they are right - in my letter to them I forgot the date !!!)

 

Please note that we have received no signed authority for you to act on behalf of Mr Wxxxxxx Sxxxxx and as such we disregard your letter in its entirety.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Connaught Collections..

 

-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-00

 

What I sent to them was a very short letter and a copy of the original to 1st Credit which I posted above.

 

My letter addressed to them was as follows -

 

©Wxxxxxx : Sxxxxx Authorised Representative for

WXXXXXX SXXXXX (LEGAL FICTION NAME ™ and all derivatives thereof.

My Address in full

 

Connaught Collections, The Omnibus Building, Lesbourne Road, Reigate, RH2 7JP

To Whom it may concern

Connaught Collections Ref No 3637318

 

I am writing in response to two letters from your Judge & Priestly Solicitors dated 13/05.2011 & 03/05/201.

I have, as requested in those letters, written directly to 1st Credit and have attached a copy of the letter I sent to them.

 

Yours faithfully

By: Sovereign © First name : Family Name

Authorised Representative

All Rights Reserved. Errors & Omissions Excepted

WITHOUT PREJUDICE – WITHOUT RECOURSE – NON-ASSUMPSIT

Without any admission of any liability whatsoever, and with all Natural, Inalienable, Rights reserved.

 

Please address all future correspondence in the matter to a direct Human Self, namely First Name : of the family, as commonly called Sxxxxx.

[newman]

So they havent received signed authority from me that I am giving myself permission to act on my behalf - thats circular logic in the extreme I think!!

 

I am just going to ignore these muppets and carry on. I only wrote to Connaughts so that they had a copy of what I sent to Mr Flynn!!

 

CPR 15: 5 here we come.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It beggers belief how stupid they can be.

[newman]

###### ADVICE PLEASE #######

 

Guys can you give me some further guidance please?

 

Now that I have received the Claim from I need to write under CPR but I am not sure who to send the letters of request to - is it to the claimant or the solicitors?

Firstly I want to ask for an extension of time under CPR 15:5 and I also need to request information under CPR 18 as they havent referred to any documentation in the POC.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Newman, Can you post up the POC it will be easier for thr guys to advise?

[newman]

Hi Brigadier

I posted up the POC in post #140 but here it is again word for word

 

The claimant claims the sum of 8,898.97 for debt and interest. The defendant was indebted to Citifinancial Europe PLC for credit advanced. The debt was assigned to the claimant. Notice of assignement was given to the defendant.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1 The sum of 6.727.12

2 Statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the county Court Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00% per annum from 08/06/07 to 20/6/11 2,171.85 & thereafter at a daily rate of 1.47 until judgment or sooner payment

 

IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK TO US REGARDING THIS CLAIM THEN PLEASE CALL 0208 7370

*schedule script

 

I had originally drafted out a CPR 18 but on reflection as the CPR 18 is for information purposes only I feel it will be better to go straight for a CPR31:14 which only gives them 7 days to respond and also request an extension of time under CPR 15:5 at the same time. I do understand that the CPR 31:14 requests can be made when a claimant discloses a document by mention of it and as they have made mention of the assignement I cant see why I would be unable to as for all of the documents they are going to rely on in court.

 

So to summarise - the claimiant is 1st Crud and their solicitors are J&P.

[newman]

Ok after a further read of a number of other threads I have drafted out this letter (CPR18) requesting further information from them as they have only actually mentioned the notice of assignment in their POC. When and if they respond to this letter I will then request the documents under CPR31:14 & 31:15. I will also request a CPR 15:5 at that time too.

 

Any other thoughts from the site team if there is anything I have missed?