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    • Yup, for goodness sake she needs to stop paying right now, DCA's are powerless, as .  Is it showing on their credit file? Best to use Check my file. All of the above advice is excellent, definitely SAR the loan company as soon as possible.
    • Hi all, I am wandering if this is appealable. It has already been through a challenge on the Islington website and the it was rejected. Basically there was a suspended bay sign on a post on Gee st which was obscured by a Pizza van. The suspension was for 3 bays outside 47 Gee st. I parked outside/between 47 & 55 Gee st. I paid via the phone system using a sign a few meters away from my car. When I got back to the car there was a PCN stuck to the windscreen which I had to dry out before I could read it due to rain getting into the plastic sticky holder.  I then appealed using the Islington website which was then rejected the next day. I have attached a pdf of images that I took and also which the parking officer took. There are two spaces in front of the van, one of which had a generator on it the other was a disabled space. I would count those as 3 bays? In the first image circled in red is the parking sign I read. In the 2nd image is the suspension notice obscured by the van. I would have had to stand in the middle of the road to read this, in fact that's where I was standing when I took the photo. I have pasted the appeal and rejection below. Many thanks for looking. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This is my appeal statement: As you can see from the image attached (image 1) I actually paid £18.50 to park my car in Gee st. I parked the car at what I thought was outside 55 Gee st as seen in image 2 attached. When I read the PCN issued it stated there was a parking suspension. There was no suspension notice on the sign that I used to call the payment service outside number 55 Gee st. I looked for a suspension notice and eventually found one which was obscured by a large van and generator parked outside 47 Gee st. As seen in images 3 and 4 attached. I am guessing the parking suspension was to allow the Van to park and sell Pizza during the Clerkenwell design week. I was not obstructing the use or parking of the van, in fact the van was obstructing the suspension notice which meant I could not read or see it without prior knowledge it was there. I would have had to stand in the road to see it endangering myself as I had to to take images to illustrate the hidden notice. As there was no intention to avoid a parking charge and the fact the sign was not easily visible I would hope this challenge can be accepted. Many thanks.   This is the text from the rejection: Thank you for contacting us about the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN). The PCN was issued because the vehicle was parked in a suspended bay or space. I note from your correspondence that there was no suspension notice on the sign that you used to call the payment serve outside number 55 Gee Street. I acknowledge your comments, however, your vehicle was parked in a bay which had been suspended. The regulations require the suspension warning to be clearly visible. It is a large bright yellow sign and is erected by the parking bay on the nearest parking plate to the area that is to be suspended. Parking is then not permitted in the bay for any reason or period of time, however brief. The signs relating to this suspension were sited in accordance with the regulations. Upon reviewing the Civil Enforcement Officer's (CEO's) images and notes, I am satisfied that sufficient signage was in place and that it meets statutory requirements. Whilst I note that the signage may have been obstructed by a large van and generator at the time, please note, it is the responsibility of the motorist to locate and check the time plate each time they park. This will ensure that any changes to the status of the bay are noted. I acknowledge that your vehicle possessed a RingGo session at the time, however, this does not authorize parking within a suspended bay. Suspension restrictions are established to facilitate specific activities like filming or construction, therefore, we anticipate the vehicle owner to relocate the vehicle from the suspended area until the specified date and time when the suspension concludes. Leaving a vehicle unattended for any period of time within a suspended bay, effectively renders the vehicle parked in contravention and a Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) may issue a PCN. Finally, the vehicle was left parked approximately 5 metres away from the closest time plate notice. It is the responsibility of the driver to ensure they park in a suitable parking place and check all signs and road markings prior to leaving their vehicle parked in contravention. It remains the driver's responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is parked legally at all times. With that being said, I would have to inform you, your appeal has been rejected at this stage. Please see the below images as taken by the CEO whilst issuing the PCN: You should now choose one of the following options: Pay the penalty charge. We will accept the discounted amount of £65.00 in settlement of this matter, provided it is received by 10 June 2024. After that date, the full penalty charge of £130.00 will be payable. Or Wait for a Notice to Owner (NtO) to be issued to the registered keeper of the vehicle, who is legally responsible for paying the penalty charge. Any further correspondence received prior to the NtO being issued may not be responded to. The NtO gives the recipient the right to make formal representations against the penalty charge. If we reject those representations, there will be the right of appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicator.   Gee st pdf.pdf
    • Nationwide Building Society has launched an 18 month fixed-rate account paying 5.5%.View the full article
    • Well done.   Please let us know how it goes or come back with any questions. HB
    • Incorrect as the debt will have been legally assigned to the DCA and they are therefore now the legal creditor. Read up on debt assignment.   Andy
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Double that changes to a single yellow line


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Hi, new on here.

I just wanted to ask if i have a chance to challenge this PCN.

I parking on what i thought was a unused old single yellow line that is aboutthree meters long.

I say unused because the council but in double yellow lines which stop about acar length from the end of the old SYL. The DYL has a end bar and the SYL whichcontinues from it also has an end bar. There is also a sign which i think meansclearway (round red circle with red diagonal with blue back ground) that says'Mon - Sat 8am - 630pm' which is positions at the end of the DYLs.

I have learns on here that you don’t need a sign for DYLs solets assume the council will say that he sign is for the SYL and so perhapsthat sign post only refers to the single yellow line, but then why is it notlocated at the end of the single yellow line or the direction of itsenforcement indicated on the sign? And if the old single yellow line was meantto be retained in force, then why does it not have a start bar?

 

Pictures available if needed.

 

All opinions welcome as I feel I should challenge them onthis one.

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Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

We will need to see pics before we could pass an opinion.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

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The way you describe it, I can't see anything wrong. You are right, the council will say the sign applies to the SYL as it does. A single yellow line usually has a sign. The one you describe, blue circle with red bar, means no waiting (ie, no parking), and it states when. This is correct.

 

It is a little odd that it's at one end of the SYL, but it can only be placed where practical. I am not sure what you mean by the SYL not having a "start bar"?

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these seems to apply to my case..? take from http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/trafficsignsmanualchapter5.pdf

 

PROHIBITION OF WAITING MARKINGS

20.3 The markings consist of either a single or a

double continuous yellow line laid at approximately

250 mm from the edge of the carriageway. The

double line (diagram 1018.1) indicates that waiting

of vehicles on that side of the road is prohibited at

any time during a period of at least four consecutive

months. The sign to diagram 637.3 is used only if the

time period is at least four but less than twelve

months. The single line (diagram 1017) indicates that

the prohibition applies for some lesser time (of day,

week or year). A transverse mark must be placed at

each end of a line, where one type of line changes to

another (see figure 20-1), where it abuts a bay

marking or a zig-zag line and at a point where a

vertical sign indicates the time period changes, but

the road marking remains the same. The restriction

imposed by these markings applies from the centre of

the road to the highway boundary on the side of the

road that the marking is laid (including any lay-bys).

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this seems to apply to my case..? take from Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 5: Road Markings (2003) http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/trafficsignsmanualchapter5.pdf

 

PROHIBITION OF WAITING MARKINGS

20.3 The markings consist of either a single or a double continuous yellow line laid at approximately 250 mm from the edge of the carriageway.

The double line (diagram 1018.1) indicates that waiting of vehicles on that side of the road is prohibited at any time during a period of at least four consecutive months. The sign to diagram 637.3 is used only if the time period is at least four but less than twelve months. The single line (diagram 1017) indicates that the prohibition applies for some lesser time (of day, week or year). A transverse mark must be placed at each end of a line, where one type of line changes to another (see figure 20-1), where it abuts a bay marking or a zig-zag line and at a point where a vertical sign indicates the time period changes, but the road marking remains the same. The restriction imposed by these markings applies from the centre of the road to the highway boundary on the side of the road that the marking is laid (including any lay-bys).

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Here is the images...

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]21291[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]21292[/ATTACH]

 

Invalid attachents apparently.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

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Hi.

 

Your photos don't seem to work. Can you try posting them again?

 

The regulations you quote say: "A transverse mark must be placed at each end of a line, [or] where one type of line changes to another"

Does the place you parked fit that description? This is what you said: "in double yellow lines which stop about a car length from the end of the old SYL. The DYL has a end bar and the SYL whichcontinues from it also has an end bar" - it is not clear if this agrees or not. We do need photos.

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"A transverse mark must be placed at each end of a line, [or] where one type of line changes to another"

 

There is a traverse mark one end, where the SYL stops, and a traverse line at the other, where it meets the DYL. So it is correct.

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Hi

My understanding is that the SYL should have a T-Bar (transverse mark) "transverse mark must be placed at each endof a line, where one type of line changes to another".

 

 

By this I think itmeans that the SYL should start with a t-bar and then end with (its own) t-bar, and then in my case the DYL should startwith (its own) t-bar and end with its own t-bar.

 

The reason for thisis because different restrictions are enforceable “indicates that the prohibition applies for some lesser time”.

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Hi

My understanding is that the SYL should have a T-Bar (transverse mark) "transverse mark must be placed at each endof a line, where one type of line changes to another".

 

 

By this I think itmeans that the SYL should start with a t-bar and then end with (its own) t-bar, and then in my case the DYL should startwith (its own) t-bar and end with its own t-bar.

 

The reason for thisis because different restrictions are enforceable “indicates that the prohibition applies for some lesser time”.

 

Why bother asking for advice if you are just going to disagree with the advice given, which is 100% correct??

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The markings look valid, if the signage is also, I don't see the problem.. Do you have pictures of the signs?

The above post constitutes my personal opinion on the facts in the post compared with my personal knowledge of the applicable legislation. I make no guarantees of its legal accuracy. If you are in doubt seek advice of a legal professional specialising in the area concerned.

 

If my post has helped you please click my scales!

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:eek:

 

 

 

challenge this PCN. I :confused:------>parking on what i thought was a unused old single yellow line that is about three meters long

 

 

.

 

 

.:confused:----> PROHIBITION OF WAITING MARKINGS 20.3

 

.

 

 

 

:!: You say the PCN was for Parking, but using Prohibition of Waiting Marking 20.3 for defence.

 

green_and_mean's post #12 seems to hit a mark :|

 

 

:)

 

 

dk

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That infuriates me as well, if you're asking people for advice why, when it is not what you want to hear (probably because that's wrong) ignore it. It's rude.

The above post constitutes my personal opinion on the facts in the post compared with my personal knowledge of the applicable legislation. I make no guarantees of its legal accuracy. If you are in doubt seek advice of a legal professional specialising in the area concerned.

 

If my post has helped you please click my scales!

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Just to clarify the situation you are correct every yellow line should end in a T bar to indicate the end of the restriction. The T bar is placed at both ends of the yellow line as required and there is a T bar at the end of the double yellows as required which one do you think is missing? Even if you follow your argument that both single and double need their own T bars (which is wrong by the way) how are you going to prove it is the single line that is missing its T bar rather than the DYL missing its T bar unless you interview the painter and ask him which one he painted?

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Just to clarify the situation you are correct every yellow line should end in a T bar to indicate the end of the restriction. The T bar is placed at both ends of the yellow line as required and there is a T bar at the end of the double yellows as required which one do you think is missing? Even if you follow your argument that both single and double need their own T bars (which is wrong by the way) how are you going to prove it is the single line that is missing its T bar rather than the DYL missing its T bar unless you interview the painter and ask him which one he painted?

 

Thank you green_and_mean, you[/url] have understood what i was trying to say..! I was about to give up because of the flack i was getting from some others.

Question 1: why is it wrong to think that both SYL and DYL must terminate with t-bars?

Question 2: Could i prove the t-bar at the middle were both lines meet does not belong to the SYL because it does not comply with TSRGD (1017) Road Markings (see image)..?

SYL Road Markings.jpg

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Thank you green_and_mean, you have understood what i was trying to say..! I was about to give up because of the flack i was getting from some others.

Question 1: why is it wrong to think that both SYL and DYL must terminate with t-bars?

Question 2: Could i prove the t-bar at the middle were both lines meet does not belong to the SYL because it does not comply with TSRGD (1017) Road Markings (see image)..?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]21318[/ATTACH]

 

 

Sorry I don't see how they fail to comply both lines do terminate with T bar? If you are saying its not 100% the same as the picture that is because the picture is of a single or double line ending where there is no other restriction, using that logic that it must match the picture it would be impossible to have yellow lines around a bend because the picture is a straight line!

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Just for the benefit of myself, I have drawn out what I think(from reading the TSRGD) the layout of DYL and SYL were they meet (as they aretwo different parking restrictions) should look. (see image)

layout of DYL and SYL.jpg

 

If I’m wrong, then I’m wrong. Just enlighten me and I’ll geton with paying the fine...

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Just for the benefit of myself, I have drawn out what I think(from reading the TSRGD) the layout of DYL and SYL were they meet (as they aretwo different parking restrictions) should look. (see image)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]21321[/ATTACH]

 

If I’m wrong, then I’m wrong. Just enlighten me and I’ll geton with paying the fine...

 

 

Very artistic but unfortunately this is what the Department of Transport state it should look like....

 

2zxtncx.png

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Ok, i get it now. The lines joint and use the one t-bar. That means i'm busted then and will have to cough up.. Thanks for your help...

 

Do you think i could chance my luck with this?I believe this PCN has been issued incorrectly. When Ipulled into that street there was a van parked there with a space in front ofit in which I parked. The sign post had a bag over it with the word suspendedon it. I asked the builders in the van who were fixing the shop on the corner,what the suspended bag meant and they said the council place them over parkingrestriction signs that they are not using for different reasons. When Ireturned the builders and their van had gone, the bag was not over the signanymore and a parking attendant putting a ticket on the car. I explained to himwhat had happened and he said it was nothing to do with him and that I was towrite into you. I’m not sure what tomake of it but I think I have been caught up with whatever [problem] those builderswere doing to avoid the parking restrictions.

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