Northern Rock - decree received 19-jan - help low income, have not listened to my offers

[IdaInFife]

No the amount will have 8% interest added annualy.

 

Yes a f&f can be offered at anytime but obviously it is up tp them whether to accept it or not.

 

One other thing is with you owning your home is they may be granted an inhibition order. This means that if at anytime you wish to sell your home, they would be granted payment from the sol/lawyer at time of sale - this only last 5 years so after 5 years they either need to repply for it or it drops off.

[bcg]

Hi,

 

I am at the end of a 3 year battle with NR - if you are not strong go straight to an IVA.

 

If you are willing to ' put a bit of effort into it'. Go straight through the courts for a time to pay order 1974 CCA s 129- simple.

 

Except the NR do not like providing CORRECT statements of accounts under S77 1974,2006 Consumer Act (get reading loads on BIS and Ministry of Justice and hms court service).

 

If the account is not stiputed then its Fastrak and the most is £500 costs. NR rock do not want a disputed claim so they say they are in dialogue, which is great then they can not charge for their extra costs their solicitors incur. It is always possible post judgement to complain to the court and SRA and FOS.

 

Up to you - worth the stuggle or take the easy road, Even if you go for a IVA, and have property, if there is not too much equity you can stilll keep it.

 

Let me know how you gert on, Kindest Christian

[Bazooka Boo]

You might as well declare your self Bankrupt rather than be tied to an IVA, IVA's are a very very last resort, after you have had plastic surgery changed your name and moved to the costa del sol!

[chattanooga]

I am in the middle of filling out the necessary forms (i.e. time to pay order), one thing puzzles me slightly that any help would be appreciated...

 

There seems to be two forms to fill in with almost the same information, one is headed "Application for a tme to pay direction under the debtors (Scotland) act 1987" and the other is headed "Application for a time order under the Consumer Credit act 1974".

 

Do I fill them both in with the same information?

 

The other thing that concerns me a bit is, the amount I can afford means that the debt is going to take approximately 20 years to repay, if I'm being fair to other creditors. Might this be considered just too long to be reasonable?

 

Sorry if these questions seem stupid but I've never even seen the inside of a court before never mind actually participated so I'm a little nervous.

[IdaInFife]

Time to pay order is to pay in installments/ lump sum

 

time order is to continue with the loan etc but over longer periods etc

 

you only fill in the time to pay order, what i would suggest is to attach a more detailed i and e

 

Budget Sheet.xls

 

[chattanooga]

Thanks Ida, I appreciate it.

 

I've actually got a very similar budget sheet to that, I basically took the nationaldebtline one and added some extra detail.

[chattanooga]

Well, that's it done. I've completed the time to pay order form and included a copy of the agreement (a copy of the one they sent me after a CCA request) and an i&e budget sheet.

 

I asked the court clerk what happens next and he basically said it gets sent back to the solicitors and they either say "ok" in which case I pay what said I could afford or "no" in which case there is a hearing. I'm actually glad it's sort of out of my hands now. I just hope the clerk actually processes the form because I didn't get ay sort of receipt or anything which I thought was a bit odd, is that normal?

[bcg]

Just Time to pay under the CCA regulations.

"Application for a time order under the Consumer Credit act 1974".1. Ensure you put in financial statement of in and outgoings.2. Make sure NRAM have the correct amount due - very bad at doing this. and 3. keep all your paper work.4. If it is going to take you 20 years to pay, then an IVA is the best route and Payplan or cssc are the best to do it for you. If it on a mortgage, then there are government schemes to keep you in your home and NR should tell you about them.5. Well right to be nervous - NRAM pull out all the guns and use highly paid counsel to cloud the issue for the Judge.6. After win - TTP order extended the time to pay by 3 years, not perfect, but got all the costs for the claimant removed.Never mind about asking me anything. Bcg.Just read your last post : ALWAYS keep a receipt of the court taking your info - just ask them. If it comes to a ttp and you are required to put in a court bundle, then always get a receipt.

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[chattanooga]

The account is not a mortgage, just an unsecured loan. To be honest, I'm not expecting the solicitors to accept the time to pay offer, they seem the type just to litigate no matter what, I can certainly prove at a hearing that the income and expenditure is legitimate and reasonable.

 

I don't really want to go down the IVA route to be frank, I do see it as a last, LAST resort but I guess if NR really push down that road it may be unavoidable, although they would get far less money so I don't see why they would.

 

Anyway, still waiting for their response to my TTP offer.

[Bazooka Boo]

Greed Chat, if they push for an IVA you may as well go BR, IVA's are no better and will drag on meaning you will end up paying more, so BR will be your trump card if NR (which is our bank) continue to play you for a fool. It won't come to that anyhow.

[chattanooga]

Am I right in thinking you have to give up a house (there is some equity) in a Bankruptcy? That would be the ultmate disaster.

 

I'm sure you're right that it won't come to that BB, but it's best to be forearmed with all the info about all the possibilities.

[Bazooka Boo]

Erm, yes, it seems you could be right in that have a read, but I seriously doubt it will come to that..

http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/bankruptcy/disadvantages-of-bankruptcy.php

[chattanooga]

Well, I was right, got this through the post this morning...

 

 

They have objected to the time-to-pay order. I really don't know what to do next, the hearing is next wednesday which doesn't give me a lot of time to get all my ducks in a row.

 

Does anybody have any advice on what to take to court, what is expected of me, what are the creditors likely to do or say?...any advice at all really.

[bcg]

Well KEEP CALM.

 

You have your application, how much you owe and your financial statement. Some faith and that is all you need.

 

Do not say too much. Let the Judge do all the talking. Answer his questions simply.

 

If you agree with NRAM how much you owe there should be no problem. The courts have a duty NOT to allow the claimant to over charge on costs - its CPR Objective 1 - go to hms court service online and look it up.

 

NRAM are really difficult, you just have to patiently move forward.

 

Do not let NRAM claim for any costs!! Reply if necessary that your reason for a TTP order is because you want to spend as much money as you can on repaying your debts. Believe me, they will try it on.

 

Even if you do not agree at that moment what the Judge says - let it go - with TTP you can always go back at a later stage. ( DO NOT SIGN A TOMLIN ORDER IF NR ever offer one -)

 

I have my TTP last Friday - I did not agree with all the Judge said, but to appeal is extremely difficult and I always have a chance to return at a later date.. mind you for the moment I am keeping really silent on the subject as the Judge removed £30,000 plus of NRAM costs.

 

I have 5 TTP Orders now, and things should begin to return to normal.

 

Be kind and let me know how you get on. Shalom. Peace.bcg

[bcg]

PS DO NOT LET NRAM APPLY FOR A CHARGING ORDER ON ANY PROPERTY YOU HAVE.

 

The GOOD thing about the TTP order is that it is not a Judgement, so you will not have a CCJ, although it will show up that you are in arrears on your credit file.

[chattanooga]

Well KEEP CALM.

 

You have your application, how much you owe and your financial statement. Some faith and that is all you need.

 

Do not say too much. Let the Judge do all the talking. Answer his questions simply.

 

If you agree with NRAM how much you owe there should be no problem. The courts have a duty NOT to allow the claimant to over charge on costs - its CPR Objective 1 - go to hms court service online and look it up.

 

NRAM are really difficult, you just have to patiently move forward.

 

Do not let NRAM claim for any costs!! Reply if necessary that your reason for a TTP order is because you want to spend as much money as you can on repaying your debts. Believe me, they will try it on.

 

Even if you do not agree at that moment what the Judge says - let it go - with TTP you can always go back at a later stage. ( DO NOT SIGN A TOMLIN ORDER IF NR ever offer one -)

 

I have my TTP last Friday - I did not agree with all the Judge said, but to appeal is extremely difficult and I always have a chance to return at a later date.. mind you for the moment I am keeping really silent on the subject as the Judge removed £30,000 plus of NRAM costs.

 

I have 5 TTP Orders now, and things should begin to return to normal.

 

Be kind and let me know how you get on. Shalom. Peace.bcg

 

Ok, thanks for the reply, a couple of questions if I may...

 

I don't think Tomlin orders apply in Scotland but I could be wrong, what are the ramifications of such an order if I'm wrong about not applying here?

 

How do I stop NRAM applying for costs? surely if the judge thinks it's ok to add them I just have to accept it.

 

Do I face questions from NRAM solicitors or is it all through the sheriff?

 

Do I have to bring proof of everything on my i&e sheet? I hope not because I can't. I never kept some receipts, I never even got receipts for things like afterschool clubs etc where I paid cash.

 

PS DO NOT LET NRAM APPLY FOR A CHARGING ORDER ON ANY PROPERTY YOU HAVE.

 

The GOOD thing about the TTP order is that it is not a Judgement, so you will not have a CCJ, although it will show up that you are in arrears on your credit file.

 

Can they apply for a charging order? I thought that only happened if you defaulted on a CCJ.

 

I can honestly say (and I'm not in the slightest bit embarrassed to say this) but I don't give a flying stuff about my credit file. It's a long time dead as far as I'm concerned.

[chattanooga]

Shameless bump.

 

The thing I'm most unsure about is what to take to court. Do I have to bring pages and pages of evidence of income and expenditure or is the fact that I signed the time-to-pay application form as true and accurate enough? Any other hints and tips about what to expect?

[chattanooga]

Can anybody help?

 

Please, just a quick piece of advice about what I HAVE to bring to court (if anything). And possibly if someone could help me understand what fair costs are (if any) for NRAM solicitors to claim, how can I fight it?

 

BCG's posts were a help but threw up more questions than answers.

 

Please help.

[Bazooka Boo]

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[sequenci]

Hello there.

 

I've only just found your thread. I would like to point out that much of the advice given on your thread is incorrect if you're living in Scotland. You are right that a Charging Order is only available for debts registered as CCJ's (e.g. England & Wales).

 

How much debt do you have in total?

How many creditors are there?

How much equity is there?

[IdaInFife]

re the court hearing - please do and try and attend taking a copy of your income and expenditure and any copies of any letters you have sent to try and make an arrangment to pay to show your a willing to pay what you can afford.

[chattanooga]

Hello there.

 

I've only just found your thread. I would like to point out that much of the advice given on your thread is incorrect if you're living in Scotland. You are right that a Charging Order is only available for debts registered as CCJ's (e.g. England & Wales).

 

How much debt do you have in total?

How many creditors are there?

How much equity is there?

 

Total debt is just over 20,000

11 creditors (although only 5 of any note, the others are for small amounts.)

Not sure about equity, about 19,000-20,000...maybe, market conditions aren't the best at the moment.

 

re the court hearing - please do and try and attend taking a copy of your income and expenditure and any copies of any letters you have sent to try and make an arrangment to pay to show your a willing to pay what you can afford.

 

Thanks Ida, I suppose I'm worrying over nothing really but as I'm self employed, proving my income is not quite so easy as simply handing over a buch of pay slips. I could show accounts going back to the time I realised I was in fincial difficulties I suppose. I am concerned that the solicitors will start assuming I can start earning more and more, which is unfortunately not realistic.

 

Is it worth bringing letters from other creditors showing they have accepted my payment plans?

[chattanooga]

Just an update in case anyone is interested.

 

I reached an agreement with the solicitor representing Northern Rock just before the hearing. The same offer that was already on the table before the hearing, the same offer based on the budget sheet I'd brought with me, the same offer on a pro rata basis that the other creditors got, makes you wonder exactly what the point was but hey, there you go.

 

What was an eye opener is how much more formal these hearings are in Scotland, the sheriff is there wig and all, presiding over multiple solicitors, all in their gowns and all in front of a public gallery.

[Bazooka Boo]

I'd be inclined to complain about NR and their time wasting throughout all of this! If you have made the same offer all along, which they have refused all along, then suddenly they take it to this stage and are suddenly accepting of it? Then there is clearly some abuse of process here? It would definitely merit questioning...