Habitual Residence Hold Up

[andrew0911]

Dear antone, yes, i too have an American SSN, and its worthless here. Luckily i have my English one too. I thank you for the offer

Andrew

[antone]

Dear antone, yes, i too have an American SSN, and its worthless here. Luckily i have my English one too. I thank you for the offer

Andrew

 

Were you a K1/K3/IR1 person? I went to live in Harrisburg, PA with my wife. Sadly, she passed away after we returned to the UK. I did, though, gain some experience of claiming JSA with a foreign partner, long before I started working for DWP.

 

However, you said she was still in the US at the moment. It is likely, in that case, that you would be regarded as habitually resident in the UK after you have demonstrated settled intent, which DMs at the moment seem to be interpreting as "you're a UK citizen who's been back a month and state that you intend to remain here."

 

A potential problem is that your wife isn't with you. They may think that you might leave again to rejoin her in the US and aren't really settled in the UK. It seems that's not your plan, and I'd also have reconned in your favour if I was a DM, but still - I'd be ready to show that she plans to move here and has the visas to do so, or is applying for such.

[privatehudson]

Dear privatehudson, I have made my appeal. It was sent in yesterday.

I am not too concerned about my treatment now, it is the laziness, ineptitude and total lack of regard i have, and i am sure that many others have experienced by the DWP.

 

For someone not too concerned with how you've been treated you've spent a lot of time on this thread complaining about it. I don't see why it doesn't make sense to convert some of that time into getting either a written apology and/or compensation.

 

I'm glad you put the appeal in though, hopefully that will come back with a positive result.

 

Judging by your replies i.e. in reference to the travellers, ' i have never knowingly dealt with one in 18 months of taking claims' is one of the standard replies that you recieve off the people who are there, laughingly, to help you, albeit used in another context, the claim you are making or with their 'help' , trying vainly.

 

I have no idea if its the standard reply but there simply isn't any part of my job or the new claims process that identifies travellers/gypsies, let alone provides them with preferential treatment. On the other hand given that I spend around 20-30 minutes with most callers I usually end up being told at some point why they are NFA and I've never had one give any indication that they are a traveller.

 

Given that there's probably around 200,000 of them at most in the UK I don't find it that surprising that I've not dealt with one. I'm not trying to say they don't claim, but the enormous majority of NFAs have either been kicked out of their parent's home, split from a partner or somehow lost their previous home. Its usually a temporary thing since there's only so long someone can kip on a friend's floor/sofa.

 

If I was content to just spout the party line I would hardly spend part of my spare time looking around this forum and on occasion where possible trying to offer advice about the part of the benefit system I know about would I?

 

The 'verbal abuse', we have discussed at length, in a nutshell, you just put the 'phone down, end of story. Why does it play such an important part of your life? You have deart with it for 18 months, mine was 20+ years. Get over it, pack your 'job' in or get a law passed that will decree ANY wording that upsets the unceaselessly working staff of either the Jobcentres or the DWP will result in a minimum of 100 years hard labour or, if it is traumatising to you so you are in need of paid time off and therapy, the death penalty. Another problem solved

 

As I've said before I do deal with it on the rare occasions it comes my way, and not by the way just by putting the phone down. I don't see why I would give my job up over it or overreact in the ways you suggest since it doesn't play an important part in my life.

 

I dislike people spouting off in what I consider to be an ill informed way and tend to speak up that's all. Its a fault I have been trying to correct since it results in me spending far too much time on internet forums like this one, usually getting into discussions with people whose mind is already made up.

 

As to the travellers, gypsy or not, it was in the newspapers and on the television about the fact that they were getting DVD's. Wether you have dealt with a claim is irrelevant.

 

I never said they didn't get DVDs or make claims for that matter, I merely pointed out that most NFAs are not travellers and giving them DVDs to inform them of potential benefits doesn't represent discrimination any more than advertising benefits to elderly people would.

 

There is a difference between making people aware of eligibility for benefits and discriminating in favour of them when they make that claim.

[andrew0911]

Dear antone, To be honest, i am unsure of what i was. I was just referred to as a 'Legal Alien' as i would not take citizenship after being informed that i couldn't have a dual Nationality. Even with the citizenship, you still need to prove ( bank accounts, property etc) that you can support yourself for one year as, during that year, the Government dissallow you from working or receiving any state funding, and you have to pay all your obligitory medical expenses, which are astronomical.

My wife has not applied, or got a visa. With hindsight it is logical that she should have, but we quite honestly had no idea after her operation she would be able to travel. The Doctors said that after the surgery, it would be six months before she could drive even.

I have sent the appeal off already. I wish i'd thought about the visa earlier that would have been a very good thing to say, although, its been two months since i came now. In most of the sites i have been to it says it is usually between one and three months before you are accepted. Another month wont kill me lol.

Dear Privatehudson, I said i was not too concerned NOW. The messing about has stopped, my appeal is in, all i can do now is wait. Most of my venom was through frustration. I have, i believe, been led down the wrong path many times along the way, this all because of the one letter i have received off the DWP in all this time. This confused the people at the Jobcentre and i was filling in forms of which there was no need and then, when i was told it had been refused, became even more frustrated. I do not know the names of all the forms, or which i was meant to fill out, i am not savvy in that department, perhaps i should have read up on it more and become a little knowledgable on the subject. I apologise to you AND anyone else i may have offended. Andrew

[antone]

Andrew, it's not that DWP staff are rendered incapable of working by a few sweary words. When I worked there, we got abused all the time and we dealt with it and continued to do our jobs. But, well, you know...I'm not doing my job when I post on this forum. Even when I worked for the DWP and posted here, I wasn't getting paid for my posts.

 

So when I read stuff about how the DWP is staffed by malicious cretins, I'm minded to say "Why the f*** do I bother?" I don't, usually, because I know the benefits system is Byzantine in its complexity, and subject to the whims of governments seemingly more motivated by the headlines in the Daily Mail than by the needs of the people they were elected to serve. I do think that those of us who have some idea about how it works can help by explaining it to others.

 

But still, when I come on this forum in my spare time and try to offer insights about how the DWP actually works, and read posts that suggest that all of my colleagues were incompetent loons who took personal dislike to individual claimants...well, you can imagine how I feel about giving up my free time....

 

Because I'm no defender of the DWP. There are many problems, and if we can get past the insulting rants directed at the poor AOs who get paid so little they'd be better off on benefits, there's a productive conversation to be had about the failings of the DWP. I know about those failings: I worked there.

[andrew0911]

Dear antone, Yes i know a great many of the 'Politically Correct' and stupid/complicated forms and laws, to me anyway, are the result of the laws that MP's pass, but will never use. What annoyed me though were the lies i was told. Many things i disregard, but lying is something i cannot abide, not just by AO's, but by anyone. As was previosly stated, i spoke with 'Paul' at Bolton who said there was NOTHING about me on his computer and he would send an email to Prestwich the minute we got off the phone, as, according to him, the papers i had initially filled in to claim benefits had never got to them. Hours later, after waiting at Prestwich Jobcentre, after waiting at the Jobcentre for the email which never materialised, they told me to call back and find out what was going on. 'Ashley', who i talked to, told me there was no Paul who worked there, no record that i had called earlier and no email had been sent out or was forthcoming. One of them MUST be lying and giving the wrong information. That kind of false information i cannot blame on the Government. As has been stated by most people here, 'one bad apple .......... '. Because of incidents like this, people become sceptical and wary of all employees at the DWP. It is no good saying it is because they were afraid of verbal abuse as i was very calm, placid and polite.

A hell of a lot of people have given me good advice, it turned out to be the wrong advice though because of the one, and still the only letter i have had. All the running around, 'phone calls and form filling in, were a waste of time due to the ineffiency of the Office Manager at Bolton who signed the letter giving me the wrong reason, and then, failing to inform me of the correct one. It was only due to the dilligence of the Jobcentre staff and of the Community Legal Advice worker, who could not understand my disallowed claim, that the truth became apparent. If it were up to me, there would be a lot of repercussions about giving me the false information. As stated, my appeal has been sent off, and i hope it is dissallowed as i want an oral hearing and can FULLY put my case over. The office manager, who shall be named, would i hope, be held accountable then. I also wish to find out if civil action can be brought against him, thereby leading to one against his ethics in work, and i hope, new legislation that would make all this nonsense a thing that is less inclined to happen in all aspects of benefit requisitions, not just mine. It may be a pipe dream, but one i like. Thank You antone.

[William Mc]

I too have been going through the process of proving that I am a habitual resident. The comments posted so far have been of no use as the arguement quickly deteriated into a discusion on the merits or lack of, of the people at the Job Centre dealing with the issue. Does anyone have any useful advice in how to deal with this matter? William Mc.

[antone]

I too have been going through the process of proving that I am a habitual resident. The comments posted so far have been of no use as the arguement quickly deteriated into a discusion on the merits or lack of, of the people at the Job Centre dealing with the issue. Does anyone have any useful advice in how to deal with this matter? William Mc.

 

Possibly, but we need more information. The key points include: are you a British citizen? How long were you abroad and when did you return? Why were you abroad, and do you maintain ties to the other country? Do you intend to return there? If so, why and when?

 

These are some of the areas that will be considered by the Decision Makers, since "habitual residence" is one of those terms with no precise definition in law.

[William Mc]

Hi Antone, I am a British subject. I was out of the country for 28 years as I was working there. I have now come back due to ill health and would not get decent treatment over there. I intend to work if I can find work that I can manage to do. I have no intentions of returning there. Although i have ties with the other country in that I have 2 grown daughters there, I also have 2 grown daughters over here.

[kyler66]

i think the whole habitual residency test for british people is disgusting. we get penalised for doing ht our mp's told us to do, "get on our bikes and find a job" we did come back and get penalised for it.

i really dont care whats politically correct anymore, why are british citizenz being treated like foriegners in our country, the teats was devised to stop foreigners who had never done a days work intheir life in this country and therefoe never paid anythinginto the system, to stop them coming here and taking advantage of it.

i worked here for 14 years from leaving school. i was born here, my parents were and my grandparents were. when i lost my job , due to lay offs in 98 i tried for work for nearly a year. so after a year i got offered a position abroad. i took it. for 12 years i worked in diferent countires around the world had a great time, telling everyone how great england was, how the government really looks after us here. misguided is what i call it now.i stopped work 2 months ago after the company i was working for in spain closed down. so i spent 2 months looking for work couldnt find any, so i made a decision along with my girlfriend that i would go back to england and then arrange to bring her and our 3 kids here as the education system would be better for them. now trust me on this, despite what you may think, we do have a great education system here compared to most countries i've travelled to.

upon arriving here, i found an apartment, opened a bank account, registered with a doctor. then made a claim for job seekers alowance til i could find a job.

now one thing i had noticed when i got back here, is its changed alot in 12 years, my friends here were laughing at me as i was like a "foriegner" , didnt know how it worked here anymore. and so many people speaking polish? when did this happen?

2 weeks after making my claim i get advised i'm not allowed any benefits as i failed the "habitual residency test"? I'M F(^$""G BRITISH! how can i fail a residency test in my own country? i'm not a foreigner here, i was born here, grew up here, was educated here, worked here, i even lost my virginity here.

basically i'm sorry, its a sad state of affairs when you are treated as a foriegner in your own country especially when you see all these eastern block scroungers in the job centre getting the benfits that you paid into , you parents paidf into but you're not allowed it, cause you left the country to work for a period of time so that you wouldnt be a BURDEN ON THE BRITISH SYSTEM AND TAX PAYER!

this test should be banned for british nationals and citizens and tightened up for those that werent born here or never paid anything into the system or have no britsh parents , in other words a right to live here. cause one thing i do know about living abroad i other countries is if you havent paiud anything into their system, you get nothing

so if any of you can justfy why a brit should be treated like this the i need to hear it cause it really peeths me

[Dilizjo]

I have read this thread with great interest and empathy for both sides of the disscussion.

 

But being at the recieving end of some, not all , of some of the staff that are employed by DWP can be at times demoralising. I was told a few weeks ago by a call centre staff that I was delaying my son's claim by ringing them, she couldn't give any information to me at that time, when questioned on certain documents that I knew the local JCP had emailed to them whilst I was there her attitude was to say the least was 'I don't care' when asking to speak to a manger was told in no uncertain terms 'this will not happen', when I asked for her name I was given a Nickname and when I asked her surname I was told she would not give it. I came of the phone angry and stressed, the air was blue in the house but at no time when I was on the phone. Later that day I rang back and got a lovely girl who when I related the incident to her put me directly onto a manger who to cut a long story short traced the call listened to it and acted appropriately resulting in me recieving a letter of apology just days later.

 

Sadly it is not only the callcentre staff that treat customers in such a way I spoke to a decision maker yesterday who has dissallowed my son's appeal on an ATOS report that blatently contradicts it self all the way through, when asking her to go through the report on the phone with me she started talking very quickly and over me when ever I started speaking, basically I couldn't get a word of common sense in edgeways. Being trained in communication, how to listen and in effect read what people are saying, I recognised the behaviour and terminated the conversation myself and will be taking action. At no time was I abusive in fact at the beginning I did say that I was sorry if I came over as being alittle stubborn but due to the lengthy line of cock ups in this case and the fact that the ESA proceedures were in effect disabling my son even further. She did say that if I became abusive she would terminate the conversation in a very stern and abrupt manner

.

Whilst I do not condone people getting abusive over being denied what is their lifeline I can fully appreciate the reasons why they do and feel lucky that I can still act respectively when I am in that position.

 

I fully appreciate that there are many times that staff are abused by ignorant people which is not appropriate which I condemn fully.

Sorry for the long post but I just felt I should just make these points clear.