CABOT - Bank Account

[mark13]

Hi. Wonder if anyone can help with the following.

 

I am being chased by Cabot with regard to a debt they have bought relating to a closed bank account. The balance they are chasing(approx £2000) refers to an overdraft that was outstanding when HBOS closed the account.

 

I am aware that they are not required to provide a copy of the original credit agreement for bank accounts but Cabot have now informed me, in writing, that they are unable to supply any documentation to support their request other around 18 months worth of copy statements. They have no documentation relating to the overdraft agreement itself.

 

They are very keen for me to 'make an offer' and suggest they may be more flexible than usual due to the lack of documentation.

 

My question is:

 

Is this enforceable on the basis the statements alone? If not, clearly this would be reflected in any offer I may make.

[Hardupnotfedup]

Have they marked your credit file?

 

I personally would make a without prejudice offer of arouind 5% if they refuse send another offer of 4% reminding them that the next one will be 3%, all the normal conditions apply, removal of default markers, remainder will not be sold on Etc.

[Pinky69]

You are entitled to a letter saying what the overdraft limit was and the rate of interest if it was an authorised overdraft. Without that I wouldn't pay them anything as you have no proof that what they are claiming is correct and Cabot usually add hundreds to a debt with no authority to do so. They know that they would be unable to take any action against you or they would be offering you a discount.

If the statements they sent are computer generated and not copies of original statements then there is no way of knowing what the overdraft was.

[NailPost]

When was the account closed? Did HSBC do the closing down properly? If its more than six years ago - ie before June 2004, then its statute barred, dead and buried, unenforceable. IN this instance Cabot should be told to go away. Its their look out if they bought a dud account!

[Hardupnotfedup]

The suggestion of the F&F was made as the OP was not disputing the debt or the amounts, obviously if there is any discrepancies added interest, statued barred etc, then you need to go down other routes as suggested.

[mark13]

Thanks for the replies so far, just to answer/clear up some of the points raised.

 

I'm not sure if it was 'closed properly' as I'm unsure what sort of errors could have been made, any further info on this would be appreciated. It won't be statute barred yet, not sure of the exact date but it was early to mid 2006.

 

I can't be certain what, if any, fees/interest Cabot have added as the statements they have don't go upto account closure so I have no way of knowing the balance when it was sold on. Though I suspect Cabot could tell me this they have chosen not to.

 

The situation with statements is odd as they can't explain why they have some statements but not all of them.

 

I will probably go for making a without prejudice offer(a very small one!!!) but just wanted to make sure I had the upper hand in negotiations first. From the replies given that seems to be the case:)

 

Ta

[Lemmein]

heya mark13..

 

anyupdate on this? im in a similar boat

[robcag]

 

 

I will probably go for making a without prejudice offer(a very small one!!!) but just wanted to make sure I had the upper hand in negotiations first. From the replies given that seems to be the case:)

 

Ta

 

Hi Mark

 

I don't claim to be an expert in these matters, but think carefully before you make an an offer as you could be acknowledging a debt which is nearly Statute Barred. If it is already SB, then you should be OK as apparently nothing you can do will un-SB it, even if you make a payment.

 

I wouldn't want CrapPot to get a penny more than they were due, which is probably zero, if you get my drift.

 

Cheers

Rob

[mark13]

Hi Mark

 

I don't claim to be an expert in these matters, but think carefully before you make an an offer as you could be acknowledging a debt which is nearly Statute Barred. If it is already SB, then you should be OK as apparently nothing you can do will un-SB it, even if you make a payment.

 

I wouldn't want CrapPot to get a penny more than they were due, which is probably zero, if you get my drift.

 

Cheers

Rob

 

Cheers Rob

 

I haven't written to them yet, although they confirmed the lack of paperwork by email I'm still waiting for the hard copy, they claim to have sent it on Wednesday but still waiting!!

 

I'll do a bit more reading before deciding whether to make an offer or tell them do one.

 

Lemmein: As above but I'll update the thread when anything does happen.

This thread and post #7 in particular may be useful with regard to what they should be able to supply

[mark13]

I haven't had hard copies from them yet but this is broadly what I intend to send them, any comments/suggestions happily accepted.

 

 

Sir/Madam

 

Firstly, I do not acknowledge any debt to your Company.

 

Thank you for allowing me the time to consider your email of 30 June 2010, I am now in position to respond.

 

You state in your email of 28 June 2010, 'We can confirm that as this is a Current Account, a copy of the original credit agreement is unavailable. This is because they're not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974'. That you are not required to produce a copy of the original credit agreement for the account is not and never has been an issue of contention. I am pleased you are familiar with the specific requirements that relate to alleged debts emanating from Current Accounts and overdraft agreements, it should make it easier for you to understand and accept my position, as I shall now outline.

 

In your email of 30 June 2010 you freely and readily accept you are unable to comply with various aspects of the 1990 determination which removed the need to retain and provide, upon request, a copy of the original credit agreement. Including, but not limited to, your inability to produce copies of written confirmation provided prior to or at the time of agreement of:

 

• The credit limit, if any.
  
• The annual rate of interest and the charges applicable from the time the agreement is concluded and the conditions under which these may be amended,of the procedure for terminating the agreement.
  

 

As indicated the list above is by no means exhaustive, however I see no reason, currently, to further command your valuable time detailing them all as you freely accept you can supply nothing. To quote your email of 30 June 2010 'We appreciate the comments you have raised and can confirm that the attached statements are the only documentation that Halifax are able to provide.'

 

This being the case I'm afraid, as stated above, I do not accept or acknowledge that any debt is owed, by me, to you and as such do not propose to make any payment whatsoever.

 

If you have misled me and you do indeed have further documentation which would support your claim please feel free to advise me of this and provide copies along with an explanation for your initial inaccuracies. Under such circumstances I would happily give my position further consideration.

 

Regards

[mark13]

OK, It took a while but they have got round to replying to the email above. Its on the attached word doc.

 

Now, it seems a fairly bog standard response that requires no more than something along the lines of; Stop pretending I have asked for a copy of the original Credit Agreement and come back when you have the documentation I actually asked for.

 

Any input welcomed.

 

Reference something Pinky said earlier, the 'statements' do appear to be photcopies of originals but nevertheless there is no overdraft limit specified.

Cabot.doc

[Guest Mrs Hobbit]

An overdraft must be supplied with the documentation Cabot provide. There has to be something on record from the Banjk.

 

Maybe this amount of money being claimed is also made up of bank charges and interest on same. If Cabot can't get this paperwork, they can't prove or disprove anything.

[mark13]

Just to keep thread up to date. 'My comments have been noted' and Cabot have put the account on hold whilst their 'Legal Team' decide what to do.

 

I'm quaking in me boots!!!

 

No sign of any documentation whatsoever.

[harrassed senior]

Are you any closer to finding a statute barred date?, ready in case they come back all guns firing?

[mark13]

Are you any closer to finding a statute barred date?, ready in case they come back all guns firing?

 

Assuming it runs from the date I last payed money into the account its just over a year.

[harrassed senior]

Well, wait until the last 2 months, and they will come chasing after you as if it is a 'fresh' account. Mine are all SB by Christmas and I am starting to get bothered all over again, even gone back to those who had a years ago.

[robinredbreast]

In this boat myself, OD with a bank ...

 

when the OD commenced the bank needed to have sent you a letter giving information on the amount of authorised OD, the monthly & annual interest rate, and how the OD may be withdrawn. They need to send you one of these every time the OD is amended, either increased or decreased.

 

Then, as far as I understand ... when/if the OD was/became unauthorised - which it would have been when they pulled the plug, they have to supply you within 3 months of this, a further letter giving you full details of the interest being applied (which will be higher as its now an unauthroised OD), charges being applied and the annual rate of interest - its my belief from reading, that if they haven't sent you this unauthorised OD letter, then the OD looses part V excemption and becomes regulated whereby they need to provide a CCA for lawful enforcement ... which they can't because technically there isn't one ...

 

But I'm learning myself ... so would be well worth you reading the thread on ODs being covered by the CCA. I'll find it and add it on ...

 

Robin

 

Here's the thread on ODs and CCAs - may be helpful .. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?237096-Are-overdrafts-covered-by-cca-s

Edited August 22, 2010 by robinredbreast

[mark13]

Thanks robinredbreast, always good to get someone else's take on things. Your summary more or less ties in with what I'd deciphered from the various threads on here. I have written confirmation from cr@pbot that they don't have any of the documents you list so as far as I'm concerned unless they change their mind and suddenly find them.....