Court for having car on road without disc

[villagevicarage]

Good morning. I would be most grateful for some advice. My father was discovered on the floor of his home, unconscious, on Boxing Day last year. I left immediately for Vancouver, not really knowing how long I would be there and sadly, assuming the worst.

 

It became one of those nightmares that kept rolling over and over as I was having a challenge finding a nursing home for him, particularly because I was having to gather financial documents from both sides of the Atlantic. No one would accept him before they (more or less) had cash in hand. It was awful.

 

My car was garaged and the disc was the very last thing in my mind at the time. I had a crack in the windscreen and suspected I probably would have to have the windscreen replaced.

 

While I was away, I had a lorry being driven by volunteers, who were scheduled to collect several months worth of items I had collected that were destined to go to my mission in Eastern Europe. According to my elderly auntie, they came to her door asking for the key to the car so they could remove the mountain of things from the garage.

 

As I understand it, the lorry was so large that they moved the car out of the garage drive onto the street whilst loading, then placed the car back in the garage. During that time (and I have never seen any notice of this), the car was 'noticed' on the road. The complaint gives the address of the road where my drive empties. It's on a corner, so the address they provided creates a plausible image for me to imagine the car directly at the foot of the drive, but I can't swear to this.

 

I did return home approximately 5 days later, but left immediately for Western Romania. Whilst away, I did recollect that I needed to get my tax disc and planned to do so immediately when I returned. Sadly, my father passed away as I was heading home.

 

I had such a mountain of things to do at home, including the tax disc that I deliberately tried to minimise as much as possible. I phoned Auto Glass, but they told me they could not come out for approximately ten days. They told me they couldn't confirm whether or not the chip in the windscreen could be repaired until they saw it. So in the interest of expediency, I took the car directly to the police station to ask them to look at the car for me, believing they might be able to tell me.

 

As bizarre as this may sound it's the truth: whilst inside the constabulary, someone placed a red 'notice' on my windscreen stating that my untaxed car had been noticed. The address they've indicated is, in fact, that of the constabulary, so I'm guessing that the magistrate will hopefully accept this. The WPC at the constabulary told me there was no way she could give me any precise information, but she did suggest that I phone Auto Glass and see if i could go directly to their offices, rather than waiting for them to come to me. Indeed, they could. They made an appointment for me, two days later. I had hoped to leave for Vancouver before then, but reluctantly agreed as I was relieved that I would at least be able to return home and not have to face the nightmare of the car, particularly as I knew I would be needing to leave again for Eastern Europe.

 

I never made a sorn application. I honestly never thought of it. I simply had too much going on at the time.

 

I'm guessing that the magistrate is going to be unyielding and on a clergyman's salary, my knees are knocking over what I might face. The other thing that has gone around in my head is that following the replacement of the windscreen, when I went to the post office on the same day to get the tax disc, I was given a disc valid from that month. Now, I'm not certain whether I'm entitled to it in absence of the sorn.

 

I've twice tried to phone the DVLA. The first time, after being transferred twice, I was disconnected. The second time, the lady told me that it was easier to write them. I did so and the response was the court notice. SO I'm feeling rather aggrieved over the whole matter.

 

I would be grateful for any advice.

 

Thank you!

 

Fr B+

[dx100uk]

blimey...

can we cut all the rambling and tell us what is going on?

 

so you simply have a ticket for no tax disc?

 

dx

[villagevicarage]

Apologies for the verbosity!

 

Actually, No. I have a court summons. I know nothing about a ticket at all!

There was a red 'notice' but never anything in the form of what I would believe to be a fine-type ticket.

 

The summons merely state the car was seen on the road on two separate occasions, contravening the road tax law.

 

That's it in a nut shell.

 

Again, apologies

 

Fr B

[my-spirit-soars-free]

I would suggest going to get proper, legal advice, as for at least one of the offences you were not in the country. As far as I know, British law has no jurisdiction when you are not in the country, but you need to check. You should be able to get a free half hour with a solicitor to discuss your case, and then decide what to do next.

 

 

If you do want to defend yourself, then I would collect as much evidence as you can of everything you have mentioned, so air tickets (proving that you were out of the country for the first time), death certificates etc. Oh, and your financial type documents, showing your annual stipend etc.

 

Then tell the magistrate exactly what you have said here, that yes, you were untaxed, but this is why it happened, that you did not intend to break the law, and that you are hoping for leniency.

 

Oh - and wear your dog collar, there is a certain stereotype of the absent minded member of the clergy that could go in your favour here.

[villagevicarage]

My-Spirit:

 

Thank you for your kind advice. Indeed, before I found your forum my thoughts were to simply tell the truth and leave it at that. I was just disappointed that the people at DVLA could have cared less as to what I said to them. Perhaps in their minds, it was just easier to get rid of the matter and pass it along to someone else.

 

I really didn't want to wear my dog collar, only because I was afraid of precisely what you've alluded to. Many of us ARE scatter-brained and one would hate to be punished for that as well!

 

Thank you again for your kind advice!

 

There's always hope as long as life and breath remain!

 

Fr B+

[brassnecked]

Unfortunately the DVLA don't care about any mitigation, they just want your money, whether or not their demand is legal or ethical.

[villagevicarage]

After seeing the Watchdog article, I can easily imagine this.

Do you know whether the magistrate I see will be a county magistrate or is this a magistrate who is actually retained by the DVLA to do solely their work? If this is the case I should think that would certainly be unfair to all concerned.

 

Whatever happens, I shall just tell the truth. I have the Autoglass receipt, my father's death certificate, and my boarding pass for my trip home. It was an electronic ticket so I don't have an actual flight ticket. Those are becoming quite rare.

 

It all seems to be such a waste of time....or at least it certainly is for me!

 

Thank you for all your help!

 

Fr B+

[my-spirit-soars-free]

This will be a normal magistrate, nothing to do with the DVLA, just a normal person who has probably managed to put the car keys into the fridge and wander out to the car with the milk when thinking about other things. They are also likely to have lost someone they care about, and therefore understand... I am just not sure how much "wriggle room" the law leaves them on the fine they impose.

 

Magistrates are not experts in the law, they are just normal people who volunteer for the job and get a little training, which is why I still think you should get advice - does your church have any system for the clergy/ministers/etc to have access to legal advice? I know some of them have legal help available for questions about marriages/deaths etc and any legal helpline *may* be willing to chat to you off the record.

[dx100uk]

union...?

 

dx

[villagevicarage]

Yes, of course. I think I failed to fully appreciate what I'm facing. I thought it was as straight forward as a parking ticket and therefore something that really wouldn't warrant my phoning the Archdeacon over. But after your kind suggestion earlier today I have decided to do so. I suspect however, he will most likely suggest that I do precisely what we've chated about here - just present 'pro se' and offer a chronological accounting of the events, along with any written materials I have.

 

I'm scheduled to appear Wednesday afternoon and I'll certainly share details of the outcome.

 

I must say, it feels somewhat as if I were being flogged due to the failure of the written word to inspire or direct someone at DVLA to apply a modicum of common sense.

 

But then the old adage "we're from the government and we're here to help you" seems to take hold.

 

Unfortunately, it will require me to present the facts in the very manner that I attemted to present them when I created this thread. The response I received was appropriate. Unfortunately, it's necessary to provide such a laboriously languid dialogue in order to create the timeline for the magistrate. Consequently, I risk causing them to either fall asleep or become exasperated with what I'm trying to present.

 

But I do cling to the very thought you had - certainly this magistrate has had their own human events which can affect our days. So I hope there may be, at least, some compassion for this scatty brained, ageing, old clergyman.

 

Again, thank you!

 

It is much easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission!

 

Fr. B+

[my-spirit-soars-free]

Don't worry, I found your initial post easy to read, well thought out, and it gave a good picture of who you are, and how you ended up in the situation you are in.

 

You come across as a lovely person, so I hope it goes well for you.

[villagevicarage]

Good morning My-Spirit

 

That’s very kind of you. Thank you very much indeed. I wouldn’t be honest if I didn’t say I have a bit of trepidation over this whole thing. I’ve never had to do anything such as this before. I don’t mean the issue of standing before a court – I do that often as I work with victims of child-trafficking. It’s the issue of defending myself, especially for something for which I’m unable to actually quantify – such as how did my car end up on the road. I can guess, but that’s all I can do. And this is what I intend to tell the magistrate.

 

All the dialogue here has helped to buffer the anxiety I’ve had over this scenario. For this I cannot thank you enough.

 

Be well

 

Fr B+

[my-spirit-soars-free]

Good luck tomorrow!

[Desperate Daniella]

I have only just seen this. I hope you may check in before you go to Court.

 

I had something similar. I bought a car without a tax disc, got it home, sent off the form because I realised I couldn't apply online as I had hoped to do, got clamped and then prosecuted.

 

At the Court the prosecutor stopped the prosecution before we went in, mainly because there is a huge discrepancy between the advice given on the V10 and V11, but also I think because I emphasised that I was a law-abiding citizen who had never, ever not paid my tax in my driving life. I also had the following typed on a sheet to give to the magistrate. With the mitigating circumstances you have outlined, I hope the magistrate may treat you fairly. Good luck.

 

House of Lords

 

Friday, 14th November 2003.

 

The House met at eleven of the clock: The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.

 

Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Southwark.

 

Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2003

 

Lord Davies of Oldham

The draft regulations will have no effect on law-abiding citizens who license their vehicles on time and are also not intended to catch those who may, through oversight or difficulty, buy their tax discs a day or two late.

Of course, under the new arrangements, we will make clear exactly what the liability is. After all, this drive is to protect the interests of the law-abiding majority in the country who pay their vehicle taxes properly. I am sure that the whole House recognises that it is high time that we drove down the numbers of those who deliberately evade vehicle excise duty. That is the main thrust of today's regulations.

I can reassure the House that the new obligations will be given full publicity. It is not in our interests for people to fall foul of the law when they have no intention to do so. However, it is very much in the country's interests that those who deliberately set out to evade payment are pursued rigorously.

Viscount Simons

I am pleased that my noble friend referred to the obligations under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994. Some people still think that they have 14 days' grace after the VED has expired and continue to use their vehicles. The DVLA must ensure that there is no confusion about the new system.

The innocent motorist must not and cannot be the scapegoat for the law breaker.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Desperate Daniella

[villagevicarage]

Daniella

 

Good evening!

 

Thank you very much indeed for this fascinating information! Clearly from the dialogue proffered by Viscount Simons, there appears to be a number of people who through no malice of forethought, find themselves in these unfortunate circumstances.

 

A couple of years ago I received a speeding ticket in the post as a consequence of one of those electronic cameras. I was indeed speeding. I did it with full knowledge of what I was doing. I was along the sea-front in January returning from what was perhaps one of the most miserable funerals I had ever celebrated in my life. The weather was dreadful with the rain pelting down so hard that it actually hurt when it hit my arms. The sorrow on the family’s faces were compounded by the abominable weather. As I headed home along the seafront, the waves were crashing against the sea wall with such ferocity that it was causing small pebbles to mix with the sea water as it splashed against the wall. At the time, I simply wasn’t aware of exactly how much the weather had deteriorated in the past hour. When the first wave of pebbles pelted the windscreen I deliberately sped up, hoping to clear the quarter mile before the road turned slightly inland.

 

Never gave it further thought until the ticket arrived in the post. I responded by challenging the ticket. But crikey! They drew it out by repeatedly sending me the same notice over and over. I phoned several times, explaining that I was awaiting my day in court, that I had the meteorological details of the day and I was prepared to vigorously defend my rights. I did add, which isn’t typical of my personality to be almost confrontational that my understanding of the speed cameras were to ensure safety and penalise those who deliberately ignored common safety. I suggested that if they pursued the matter, then felt the matter would become prima facie evidence that the speed cameras were nothing more than revenue generators for the council and that they had no interest in honesty.

 

Approximately 4 days following my written diatribe I received notice that the ticket had been cancelled.

 

Scenarios such as these are so unfortunate as I feel strongly that many people simply acquiesce to their intimidation, feeling, as I have somewhat felt this past week, that the expense of time, energy, travel, etc., far outweighs whatever their fine may be and the poor soul ends up paying whatever they demand.

 

I’m very grateful for what you’ve sent me. I’m not certain how I feel about using it outright. But I feel it’s so interesting that following whatever adjudication occurs, I would like to give it to the magistrate for her or his consideration. In many ways, it’s a lovely brief eulogy on society and how we, the public, would like to think of our MP’s – as Ladies and Gentlemen who speak on our behalf, representing the pulse of those who pay their taxes, obey our laws and endure the crumbling society around us.

 

You are very kind to have shared this with me (us). Thank you for your kindness and thoughts. As I mentioned yesterday, I’m a bit anxious at present and will be relieved when the whole distasteful thing is over!

 

Be well

 

Fr B+

[mightymouse_69]

I have followed this thread.

 

Good luck to you for tomorrow.

 

Best wishes.

[villagevicarage]

Thanks Mighty!

 

And a most grateful thanks to all of you! Your words have helped to buffer my exasperation.

 

This morning I explained to one of the nursing homes I would normally be visiting tomorrow afternoon why I won't be able to see them. In many ways, this upsets me far more than what I'm facing as the residents have very few visitors. Of course I will try to catch up, but I'm guilty of trying to cram 30 hours into 24 almost every day.

 

One thing will definitely surprise the magistrate as I'm bringing the dog with me. I'm hoping I won't be too far down the docket so I can hopefully at least get to visit them for a brief time. (they're more interested in seeing the dog than me!)

 

Thank you for your good wishes!

 

Fr B+

[dx100uk]

chin up dear boy

and good luck

 

kepp us up to speed..

 

dx

[villagevicarage]

Good morning DX100!

 

It's a joyous day and I shall make the best of this. Thank you for your encouragement!

 

I've kept close to heart what Desperate Daniella has said; Last night I dug out my CCRB certificate (Criminal Records Search), which all clergy are required to have, to take with me. I'm not quite certain whether I will ever feel so dramatic to want to drag the thing out, but I do take her point.

 

I'm touched by all of your support and encouragement. It's quite humbling.

 

Thank you SO much!

 

Fr B+

[my-spirit-soars-free]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Fr B,

 

We are all rooting for you. Hope the magistrate appreciated that you are not a persistent law breaker and acted accordingly.

 

Daniella

[dx100uk]

what was the sketch in 'oh brother' with derek nimo.

he preys and the eagle crest falls on the judges head?

 

dx

[villagevicarage]

Good evening everyone!

 

Please don't think I'm ignoring you. It has been a challenging day and a long evening. I've only just come in. I must must have something to eat, then I can attempt to share with you what has happened.

 

It has been bizarre…or at least it was for me. And as the hours pass, I become increasingly consumed with anger. My speaking the truth cost me all of around £15. But I was offered (Oh how I wish I were kidding) the opportunity to change my statement in order to avoid the payment.

 

The whole distasteful experience was intimidating, upsetting, and surreal in many ways. Someone here yesterday made a tongue-in-cheek comment that it was just about money. Too right! That’s all it was about! It certainly wasn’t about justice!

 

And my anger is over the fact that I feel so passionately that what I experienced today was a literal smear upon the very foundation of our country’s history.

 

Sorry, I’ll step down from the soap box for now. Perhaps a cup of tea and a sandwich will soothe the savage beast. But I doubt it.

 

An utterly grotesque farcical embarrassment.

 

Will write later. By then I hope my hand will stop shaking.

 

Fr B+

[mightymouse_69]

Get a cup of tea and make it a strong one.

 

Will look forward to your account of today's events.

[my-spirit-soars-free]

Me too.

 

Did you get to see your old folks?