Fault with car after 3 months

[heliosuk]

. I am aware that some finance co's do not insist that a used car requires a warranty, but in my experience, most do and actually provide the funding for it which leads the customer believe its free.

 

I thought this was illegal Sam. Like PPP and house insurance tied to the same lender.

[Heretian]

Further my understanding of soga is that the 6 months rule only changes the responsibility of proof to the seller in the first 6 months, i.e. to show that the fault was not present at sale. The change just made an assumption that it was unless shown otherwise.

 

In this instance what would be considered proof that the bearing was not faulty at point of sale. There was no inspection carried out other than an MOT and the company who carried out the MOT have admitted that they do not extensively test for wheel bearing wear/faults. They informed me that the car is not test driven and that the rotation on the wheel is carried out by hand and at slow speed. Further to this they have said that a minor fault would not be detectable at this point as wheel bearings will not show play until they are extensively damaged.

 

Do you think a court would consider an MOT to be acceptable proof that no fault was present as I cannot prove that it was there when sold (I feel it was as I dont think a bearing gets a noisy as it is after 5k miles). As I have only had the car for 3 months I feel the dealer should be responsible.

 

When the car was sold, I was given my AA Warranty policy number on a printout and advised that further information would be posted out. When speaking with AA Warranties they advised I should have been given the documents by the dealer. At no point was the limitation of the warranty pointed out to me. I was simply told that a warranty would be supplied with the vehicle. Had I known the warranty would have been this useless I would have bought privately and saved cash as the vehicle was listed at a dealer price.

 

An additional point I found last night is that during the sale I asked for all wheels to be refurbished due to wear to the faces and poor appearance. This is a noted item on my receipt. When looking closely, all wheels have had the faces refurbished but the paint/lacquer on the inside faces and barrels of the wheels has not been addressed and is still extremely poor and is bubbling/peeling. You almost need to have the wheels off to notice but they have not been fully refurbished. Something I am not happy about but should have noticed earlier I guess.

Edited July 2, 2010 by Heretian

[Conniff]

I've changed one on mine this PM as was rumbling for a while and getting worse. ( did 6k miles on it though!) Manufacture quote was £189. Did it for £28 and 3 hours sat in the sunshine. Was nice to get hands dirty again and to prove to other half that "the tools you never use" actually do get used when you need them. No doubt the saving will be spent on yet more shoes, or a new unecessary hand bag...............

 

 

Have to agree it is nice to be able to sit in the sunshine and do these things at your own pace and drink coffee etc without having to worry that the bill will be high.

 

When you explained about the 'tools you never use', did you go get her rolling pin out and hand it to here saying 'here have a go'

[Heretian]

Having a good read of the SOGA guidelines published in this thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/vehicle-retailers-manufacturers/266161-oft-publishes-new-guidance.html

 

With my car being under finance is this bit relevant :

10.1 The remedies in the SoGA do not apply to vehicles supplied on hire purchase.

Where a consumer purchases a vehicle under a hire-purchase agreement, their legal rights are against the finance company (under the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973).

 

10.2 Under the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973, the vehicle must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, correspond with any description given, and the creditor must have the right to sell the vehicle. Where the vehicle does not correspond to any of the above, the consumer may in appropriate circumstances be entitled to reject the vehicle for a full refund or claim compensation.

 

Would I need to take my dispute up with the finance co rather than the dealership? I am in the process of printing this document off and highlighting and annotating the relevant bits for the dealership to realise that he is legally responsible for the car as the fault occured within 6 months and he onus is on his to categorically prove the fault was not there. I will argue that a basic MOT inspection is not enough to check this.

[Heretian]

7 days passed since my letter was delivered and no response. Contacted dealership today to chase and was advised manager no longer works for the business.

 

Person on the phone is from another garage across the lot who is "just minding the phones".

 

Will be drafting letter before action and attaching to copy of OFT guidelines for 2nd hand car dealers.

 

Anything else I can do? I am going to get rid of this car once it is repaired if I cant reject it for mis-sold contract as I have had enough.

 

The evil part of me wonders if I could trade it in versus something else and make it another dealers problem... guess its a good thing I am not evil

[Heretian]

Letter before action I will be sending is included below. Is this sufficient or should I not stipulate my choice of action?

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Final Notice before Legal Action

I enclose a copy of the letter I wrote to you on 30/06/2010.

I have given you a reasonable opportunity to resolve my complaint. You have failed to do so.

I have now been left with no alternative but to seek legal redress through the courts. Unless this matter is satisfactorily resolved within the next 14 days I will instigate legal proceedings without further notice. The cost of this action will be added to my claim.

Please find enclosed a copy of the OFT Guidance notes for Second Hand Car Dealers with appropriate annotation highlights of relevant sections.

 

Should you fail to reach a satisfactory resolution within 14 days I will be pursuing an action of “Rejection for mis-sold contract” and would expect a full refund for the cost of the vehicle in addition to costs.

 

The warranty supplied by you for the vehicle has been deemed to be worthless due to the exclusions applied by the warranty company. The exceptions were not highlighted to me at point of sale and a copy of the terms and conditions to the warranty were not supplied by your company. This is a requirement of the SOGA legislation.

 

Please respond to my complaint within 14 days from receipt of this letter.

 

Yours faithfully,

[sailor sam]

Your letter should make clear that you are formally rejecting the car and as such you require a full refund of monies paid. Indicate the current milegae reading and state that you are no longer using the car and arrangements should be made for recovery.

 

So I would delete (line 3) 'I have now been left with no alternative.... (to) ....through the courts' and insert your intention of rejection. The rest of it is fine unless anyone else wishes to comment.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Heretian]

I handed in the letter today without any of the specifics for rejection at this time. Speaking with the new staff onsite they claim to have spoken to the AA again as they feel it should be covered and their rep agreed initially.

 

I have said that should it be repaired within the 14 days then I will consider the repair a satisfactory solution to this issue. (Not acceptance of the vehicle as I reserve all my rights under SOGA etc)

 

Once it is repaired I will be looking to sell privately to clear the finance and start again with a more reputable garage. I am not going to sell unless I can cover my costs and not be out of pocket so it will be an easier solution and going through courts. The examples on here of nearly 1 year cases to reject the car dont bode well and I cannot afford to be paying for a car I wont use or be without a car whilst awaiting an outcome.

 

Its a bad situation to be in as I dont want them to get away with mis-selling but I have to think of my circumstances first etc.

 

Will see what he says within the 14 days and take it from there. If he wont repair then I will look again at my options and try and beg a banger from family if needed.

[Heretian]

Well deadline for 14 days is fast approaching and still not response from the dealer regarding any of my queries.

 

I have spoken to the finance co again this week and they have now logged a formal complaint. They have asked for a copy of all correspondence sent to the dealer and a timeline of events (Good thing I kept records). This should be with the rep handling my complaint tomorrow.

 

In my last letter to the dealer I stated that I would pursue court action in the event of no response by the 23rd July. As I want to reject the car for mis-sold contract due to the invalidity of the warranty can I simply just write him a rejection letter with miles stated for collection prior to court or can I just file in court for rejection as I know he is not going to simply accept the vehicle back anyway?

 

Starting to feel very lost now and trying to keep my head at the same time.

[sailor sam]

Did you do what I suggsted in post #32?

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Heretian]

I did not put rejection into the letter at that point as I was still hoping for him to repair the vehicle. As per post #33 I handed the letter over with no specifics regarding action other than I would seek resolution through the courts.

 

He obviously now has no intention to repair the vehicle. As such I would now like to reject it.

[Winnie Wotsit]

I dont have any advice regarding the car becasue I'm in the same boat. But my cousin lives just outside Peterborough and went through two SOGA case's in the local court.

 

The judge in his case would not accept delivery of the letters by hand. Recorded Delivery was expected as the minimum, even then it must have been shown delivered and signed for.

 

Point Two :

 

As a once avid ebay seller, Peterboroughs Werrington postal office is well known for NOT obtaining signatures for Recorded Delivery letters. So that leaves special delivery ( expensive I know ), but taking into account the bigger picture its well worth it in the long run.

 

 

Which brings me to my last point.

 

Peterborough district court has some funny old codgers on the bench and I would tread very carefully with two particular judges.

 

 

Who was the dealer, I will ask my cousin if he knows of any other issues with the company ?

[Heretian]

I would prefer not to name the dealer yet as I am still hopeful for a resolution now that the finance co are involved.

 

They are however based in Werrington and are a fairly new establishment using the site of a previous car dealer who no longer sell vehicle but do continue as a franchised main dealer for repairs.

 

If I need to send the letter again Special Delivery then I will do. I only bought the car 4 months ago and as such still well within the 6 months deadline for reverse burden of proof.

 

I do have the original call to AA warranty logged in the AA systems dated 23rd June so they cannot contest the date the faults were reported. AA can provide this proof if required.

 

Any info you can provide would be helpful even though I have not been helpful with the dealers name.

[Winnie Wotsit]

I would prefer not to name the dealer yet as I am still hopeful for a resolution now that the finance co are involved.

.

 

 

I fully understand, I'm in a similar position.

 

IAny info you can provide would be helpful even though I have not been helpful with the dealers name.

 

I cant offer legal or consumer advice, I'll leave that up to the better informed members on here. But if you do contact Trading Standards, I hope you have a better experience then I had. I came off the phone feeling like I needed to apologise to the dealer, take him out for lunch and accept I had bought a lemon of a new car.

 

 

Oh and I should be grateful that I could afford a new car. Whoever was married to that trading standards officer deserves a medal .

[sailor sam]

I did not put rejection into the letter at that point as I was still hoping for him to repair the vehicle. As per post #33 I handed the letter over with no specifics regarding action other than I would seek resolution through the courts.

 

He obviously now has no intention to repair the vehicle. As such I would now like to reject it.

 

Have you continued to use the car or is it with the seller?

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Heretian]

I am still using it until the point where I reject the car. As I have been hoping for resolution to the problem I did not stop using it.

 

As soon as I write a letter of rejection I will be recording the mileage in the letter and leaving it on my drive.

[Conniff]

Don't be surprised if your rejection is turned down. You only have a short time in which to reject and you are now passed the 4 month point and can be deemed to have accepted it.

[Heretian]

So the dealer has managed to avoid me being able to reject the car based on a fault which happened in the first 3 months by just ignoring me? How can I have accepted the vehicle if I have an outstanding dispute with the dealer which has not been resolved?

 

My initial complaint started prior to the end of my 3rd month and this rejection would be a continuation of that action as the final action due to no contact and no offer of resolution.

 

Will be gutted if this option has been taken away by him ignoring my complaint...

[sailor sam]

Don't be surprised if your rejection is turned down. You only have a short time in which to reject and you are now passed the 4 month point and can be deemed to have accepted it.

 

Which is probably why the dealer is ignoring the OP. The proceedure (as we advised) should be; Fault develops within 6 months of ownership= contact dealer asking him to rectify. Dealer refuses= write a formal letter asking him to rectify within a reasonable time or you reserve the right to formally reject under the SOGA and ask for your money back. Dealer still refuses/ignores after dead line= write formal rejection letter/final letter before action giving 14 days for collection/return of car and refund of monies Do not continue to use car. Dealer refuses/ignores= issue county court proceedings. The above time scale should be no more than 3 weeks (21 days) from the date when first reported the fault to making a claim to the courts.

 

The letter of rejection should of been sent by 9th July in this case and the car should of been parked up then or returned to the dealer on the same date. I believe I did advise the OP in my post of that day. The letter the OP sent on July 8th may of sufficed but again once sent, he should'nt have continued to use the car. The only thing he can hope is that the dealer is unaware that the OP used it since the 8th July.

 

I think the only option now is issue court proceedings for a refund or get the car repaired and issue a claim for the cost of the repairs.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Conniff]

However, going back to the post, wheel bearings would be a normal warrantable part and as such for the first 6 months needs to be covered by the dealer.

 

This is the crux of it all. For the first time I will agree that the warranty is not liable to pay out for this as it is fair wear and tear and the mileage would back this up.

 

I am still using it until the point where I reject the car.

 

So the dealer has managed to avoid me being able to reject the car based on a fault which happened in the first 3 months by just ignoring me?

 

But you haven't rejected it. You are still using the car and depreciating it, so even if rejection was accepted, you will lose more than the cost of this bearing replacement by the AA garage anyway.

You are getting what the regulations call 'enjoyment' from the car and that will reduce the amount you can claim back.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post "Faults that appear in the first six months are assumed to have been present at the time of sale."

During that first six months, it is up to them to prove the fault was not there at time of purchase.

 

You're dragging this out too long. You must write asking when you can bring it in for him to repair at his cost under the Sale of Goods Act. If he fails, then you can write again informing him that you will take it to the dealer for repair and the bill (which is likely to be higher than the AA garage), will be sent to him for reimbursement.

 

If he refuses to pay then on to the small claims court.

 

It is a simple matter to issue a small claims on line for money and much simpler than going to a court to attempt to force a rejection claim.

 

Don't waste any more time, get the letter typed up tonight and posted in the morning. The longer you leave this the more difficult you are making it for yourself.

 

Don't forget - Recorded Delivery.

[Heretian]

I shall give up on the idea of rejection of the vehicle then. This was always my last resort as other than the wheel bearing I am happy otherwise. The car is perfect size for me and the family and is more than economical enough for my daily driving.

 

I should be having a conversation with the finance co today as they initially agreed that the dealer should have repaired. They will be contacting him to discuss directly too.

 

If there is no joy then letter goes out tomorrow as per your above. I didnt think I had dragged this out personally as it has been

[schmidtman]

I read this with interest, and suggest you will get no where with any claim, reason is the bearing has not failed, you are still using the car! If you could reject the car for wear and tear then all of the car has some wear in it.

Lets be fair here, the seller has not deliberately sold a faulty car, he has sold a car with some wear and tear to be expected with mileage and age, do your self a favour, have the bearing replaced and enjoy the car, it isn't worth all your time and aggravation, it's just a noisy wheel bearing, if you don't feel happy with the dealers response then don't use them again. simple.

[Heretian]

Finance company have spoken to the dealer and have advised me to ring them to arrange repair.

 

Dealer says that they have spoken to AA Warranty who will cover 50% of the cost and the dealer will cover the rest. Arranging to go in for Monday to be repaired at no cost to me.

 

Will report back after Monday to say if this has all been sorted.

[Heretian]

Received car back last night. Fully fixed and no money to pay out.

 

Satisfied with result and thankful for all of your help in getting it resolved. Obviously no need to reject vehicle as even though they dragged their heels they did fix it.

 

Will now consider my options and if I have no faith in it after all this I will sell the car privately otherwise will keep it.

 

Thanks again to all those who helped.

[sailor sam]

Glad to hear of this outcome. You may wish to click the scales of those who assisted you!

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.