Help please - Debt from an estate due to bereavement

[700633744]

Thanks Spamhead - yes I sent the original cca which stipulated 28 days i think by rec delivery. I also sent the cca again with an adapted reminder stating that they have 7 days to respond from the date of the letter otherwise I will assume that they have no claim to make on any potential estate. I have kept all responses plus the enevlopes they cam in to prove received dates by post mark etc.

[700633744]

out of interest - what would you suggest is too long? 3 months perhaps?

[spamheed]

This is awkward because you have conflicting responsibilities, both to all of the legitimate creditors and also to the estate of the bereaved. and of course to yourself as you are liable should they prove a claim without being given an opportunity to submit such a claim

 

"How Long" and "Too long" are essentially "Piece of string" type questions, what's fair for one side may seem unfair to the other.

 

Since you have already offered them two chances to prove their claim against the estate, have any of them actually requested further time, or even replied to your letters?

 

if they have requested further time, then I would reckon another 28 days would be more than sufficient, given that they are only allowed 12 days by statute.

 

If they haven't even responded to any of your letters, I would be tempted to say stuff them and send them a final 7 day notice. Providing them with a chronological breakdown of your attempts to assist them and their opportunities to prove their claims.

 

If they don't reply to this then it's their own stupid fault.

 

Obviously make sure you send everything recorded and retain proofs of posting and delivery

[spamheed]

Just to be clear, your mother holds no responsibility whatsoever to any of the creditors at all and she will not carry liability after the will has been settled, even if they can later prove that a legitimate claim could have been made.

 

The purpose of all of this is to protect yourself from any claim after the will has been settled, so I would always advise to err on the side of caution and ensure absolutely everything is documented and recorded.

 

If they do bring a retrospective claim against the executor (you) you would need to demonstrate that you gave them "ample opportunity" to be dealt with during the settlement process and that they failed to act properly within that time. of course this would require a definition of "ample opportunity" being clarified

 

Of course you would need to retain all documentation for the foreseeable future

[700633744]

Hi got some more questions that I need help with please?

 

1) My dad had a business overdraft, I done a cca in June and have had no reply nor sign of credit agreement. I can see charges on his statement etc when he has gone over the overdraft and interst charges..... Can I withold settlement on this until i see the signed cca?

 

2) I have been rpovided with a cca signed by my dad 13 years ago (wow). I am tempted to negotiate settlement given he was a customer for such a long time, what are the chances of them doing so do you think?

 

3) One creditor replied to me in june saying that would have a cca with me forthwith, after 2 reminders sent recorded delivery they still have provided nor replied - what should I do now - I dont see why I should keep chasing tbh

 

The adverts in national press etc have already been placed

 

Many Thanks

[700633744]

can anybody help please?

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi got some more questions that I need help with please?

 

1) My dad had a business overdraft, I done a cca in June and have had no reply nor sign of credit agreement. I can see charges on his statement etc when he has gone over the overdraft and interst charges..... Can I withold settlement on this until i see the signed cca?

 

2) I have been rpovided with a cca signed by my dad 13 years ago (wow). I am tempted to negotiate settlement given he was a customer for such a long time, what are the chances of them doing so do you think?

 

3) One creditor replied to me in june saying that would have a cca with me forthwith, after 2 reminders sent recorded delivery they still have provided nor replied - what should I do now - I dont see why I should keep chasing tbh

 

The adverts in national press etc have already been placed

 

Many Thanks

 

1) For bank accounts there will be no CCA. CCA's only apply to loans and credit cards. Suggest that you try to negotiate a reduced full and final settlement of the account. Depending on the amount involved and means to pay, you might be able to settle for say 50%, particularly if the amount due is mainly made up of charges.

 

2) Yes go for a reduced full and final settlement. Likely to accept a faily low settlement, but if you posted a copy of the CCA having removed any personal info, people might be able to comment on the enforceability of the CCA. If CCA is not worth the paper it is written on, this might strengthen your hand.

 

3) Negotiate a reduced settlement. You never know a company might come up with the CCA at some point and this could cause you a problem. Better to deal with this now.

 

A DCA could have purchased the debt for less than 10%, so if there is no CCA available, given the circumstances, you might be able to settle for a low percentage, say 10-20%

[700633744]

thanks mate, i will get the cca scanned and posted in the next few days

 

cheers

[700633744]

In relation to point number 3 - the company concerned have finally sent me a letter saying that they wont write the debt off and 8k is still owed from my fathers estate, no apologies nor explanantion - they claim they have consulted their legal team:

 

the cca hasn't been adhered and they have been prompted 3 times - is my best bet to offer a settlement of say 20% based on lack of debt proof and poor expeience for me or just refuse point blank until they proove debt. Im thinking of offering themapprox 2k for the 8k debt

[700633744]

also, if i make an offer - is this an admission that I ackonwledge any potential debt to the estate?

[Master Chief]

also, if i make an offer - is this an admission that I ackonwledge any potential debt to the estate?

 

I'm not 100% sure this is relevant, but I seem to remember reading on here that if you head your F&F letter 'Without prejudice save as to costs', then the letter can not be used as evidence without your express permission. It could only then be used after judgement in assessing costs.

 

HTH,

 

MC

Edited November 10, 2010 by Master Chief
typo

[harrassed senior]

OK Sadly I have been in a similar situation with my daughters' Estate. I admire what you are trying to achieve, but I think you need to take a step back.

 

Those companies which are not being responsive should be set to one side - you cannot wait on them in order to settle the Estate in a timely manner for all concerned (family etc.).

 

Hopefully I mis-read your previous post and that the bank are not actually still putting interest onto the overdrafted account?.

 

Personally, and this is what I did, and it was accepted thankfully, is to draft a letter to all those you feel are entitled to a settlement. Draw up a settlement figure based proprtionately on what is (or was) owed at the time of your fathers' death. Start with a 10% Full and Final Offer, mentioning that there are many debtors (do not give details) and that they have all been offered the same percentage offer. Further say that once you have received all responses (say give 28 days) then the estate will be dealt with along these lines. If any of them respond negatively, make sure that they know that this is a final offer and as they have not responded to your advertisement in the London Gazette, all claims they later present will be nullified.

 

Hopefully others will agree of will be add further information, but this needs to be settled asap for all concerned and I think in the end dealing with each one individually is a mammoth task. Take how they have so far responded into account when making your calculations.

 

Good Luck.

[700633744]

Thank you so much for taking the time to talk about an emotive subject - really appreciated

[700633744]

Hi,

 

As requested previously - a cca that I have received: is this enforcable?

 

Thanks

img-Y11125045-0001.pdf

Edited November 11, 2010 by 700633744
spelling

[Bazooka Boo]

Technically an application form, no T&C's, unless they're on the reverse, no right to cancel yadda yadda yadda....IMO not enforceable.

[ScarletPimpernel]

The document shown does not contain the prescribed terms, and is unenforceable. It is probably, however, just the front of the document, and if this is all they've sent then they have failed to comply fully and properly with your request. The law requires them to supply a copy of the agreement, together with any document referred to therein.

 

My view would be that if they can't be bothered to comply with their legal obligation they clearly don't care whether they are paid or not.

[700633744]

Thanks - they have also included anoother 7 pages of info in the reposnse including chrages etc: I assume that this means that they have fully complied with the cca. It does only say that the credit limit is 3400 but 8.5 is owing: does this matter?

[unclebulgaria67]

Suspect the credit limit is the original amount and then this is reviewed as the account is ongoing.

[700633744]

UPDATE - I have had the notice of death placed in the gazette and am now thinking about awaiting the outcome before making offers etc. One debtor has finally responded (5 months late) and said the money is still owed but without any proof. They have explained that they failed to meet the CCA as the debt was inherited from another company, im tempted not to offer anything for this debt as its unproven: do you think this would be a mistake? Id rather pay 20% than 100% if you catch my drift but then again its an unproven debt so why should I....

[Bazooka Boo]

I would leave them off the list of creditors, they have admitted, hopefully in writing, that they have no documents to enforce this, therefore there is zero legal action they can ever take against you/the estate for payment. Concentrate on the others who have come up with the goods and proved the debts.

[700633744]

Thanks - yes sounds like a plan , they sent me a letter in may/june which I have saying they were trying to trace the relevant documents as they inherited the debt. Then after several cca letters that they ignored I have now finally recevied one saying that they are unable to comply with my last letter which asked for the debt to be written off if they couldnt provide evidence that it actually existed: they have said they cant comply with the request and the monies are still owed from the estate.

[spamheed]

In my opinion you have givern them ample time to resolve this, simply stating that you (or a family member) owe something, but they cannot/will not prove anything is not recognised as a lawful position. You owe a duty to the estate and also to all other creditors to establish the lawful status of all claimants against the estate, as previously stated, they have failed to prove anything at all

 

I would tell them where to get off, you have done everything in your power to assist, have waited an awful lot longer than certainly I would have and have extended them every courtesy whilst they procrastinated and failed to establish/prove their status, I cannot see how any case brought by them would succeed.

 

Make sure you retain copies of all correspondence, both ways, just in case they should be foolish enough to try anything

[700633744]

Here's the main content of my last letter to them:

 

Further to your last correspondence in relation to my late father’s account: Given that you last contacted myself 4 months ago in relation to my CCA request for the proof of this debt, I must now assume that you will be closing this debt as you have wholly failed to comply with the lawful CCA request that I made to you twice, clearly and evidently breaking the law.

I can now confirm that due to your lack of diligence in dealing with this matter I intend to exclude your company from any potential estate settlement. I have enclosed a copy of the certificate of probate in my name to enable you to close this account fully.

I would appreciate you confirming within the next 7 days that this account has now been closed.

Here's the reply:

 

"I apologise for the delayed repsonse. After referal to our legal department I am unable to confirm that the above credit card debt will be written off on the grounds stated in your letter. The balance illustrated above remains a liability against my fathers estate"

 

The only other letter from them was in june and reads:

 

I would like to confirm that I have contacted our archives department with a request for the original credit agreement for the above account. I have requested this as a matter of urgency and would expect to receive it in the next 5 to 10 working days. Once received I will forward thjis to you as soon as possible. They also gave my postal order back to me....

Edited November 17, 2010 by 700633744
spelling

[spamheed]

and five months later they still haven't provided you with anything, but want you to hold everything up on the off chance that they do manage to come up with something?

 

I don't think so - otherwise no will would ever be settled, they could simply keep this up for years.

 

You have been more than fair with the time you have allowed them, they have exceeded how many deadlines.

 

I would suggest maybe taking legal advice on what a reasonable deadline would be if youneed further assurance

[700633744]

Yes thanks I agree, cheeky so and so's: I was thinking about when the gazette placing has finally run its course. Sit down with a solictor and arrange paymenst to verified creditors and see what he says