1st Credit Help please

[Joe of the Jungle]

Hi,

I have been lurking on the forums for a while and have used some useful information, but I now realise that I can't do it on my own so have registered for help if possible.

 

I had a marbles credit card taken out in 2003 which has been past on to 1st Credit due to the usual difficulties, job, family problems ect.

 

I sent a cca request to them last year and finally got a reply about three months ago with what I think is an unacceptable credit application. (No t&cs) They then followed up with letters about CCJs and charging orders. Last month they sent a letter about getting a statutory demand order.

 

I sent a letter of dispute from the templates library last week and on Monday they sent a letter saying they have compiled with the request and that it was not in dispute and I have 14 days to pay.

They also sent the credit application, but this time with terms and conditions page which I have been asking for since January 2009.

 

Please could someone take a look and tell me if I can hold them off any longer, because I cant afford to pay at present and need to keep a roof over the families head (not their fault)

Thanks.

 

 

Marbles1.pdf

 

Marbles2.pdf

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Greetings. Okay, that'll teach me to read your thread title! Sorry for that. (I asked which DCA originally).

 

Though I've just been looking over the first page and it looks very illegible in some places? Is that how it was sent or just the product of scanning? That's the first thing I noticed. From what I've read here if it IS inelligble, then it's in default until they provide you with a copy you can read.

 

This explains what I mean a lot better:

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

Edited May 27, 2010 by Cartaphilus

[Joe of the Jungle]

Hi thanks

it`s with 1st Credit

[PGH7447]

Looks crap to me, do the T&Cs match the application form?? ie does it state anywhere on the front page that section x covers xxx on the second page

[Joe of the Jungle]

I`m not sure, don't think so I cant really read it.

[Bazooka Boo]

Did you fill in this application form on their premises (Bank?) or did you send it to them?

[PGH7447]

if you cant read it then that is your excuse, the form must be legible

[Bazooka Boo]

Can't see any right to cancel, apart from that it's a very very bad copy, dispute it on that?

[Joe of the Jungle]

Did you fill in this application form on their premises (Bank?) or did you send it to them?

 

 

Hi Bazooka It would have been at home it was in 2003.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Yes, I missed all the other replies whilst busy messing about trying to search something but if you can't read it, then as per my post above and the regulations, as the others have mentioned since.

 

[Joe of the Jungle]

Yes, I missed all the other replies whilst busy messing about trying to search something but if you can't read it, then as per my post above and the regulations, as the others have mentioned since.

 

 

The pdf is what is exactly what it looks like.

 

Ok don`t really know what to do now, should I send them anything. I put the account into dispute on the basis that the application was illegible, and their was no terms and conditions. Now they have sent the terms and conditions.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Then it's illegible. Therefore, as PG already mentioned, this now applies to the situation:

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

__________________

 

As PG said. You can't read it, how can you tell what you agreed to?

Ok don`t really know what to do now, should I send them anything. I put the account into dispute on the basis that the application was illegible, and their was no terms and conditions. Now they have sent the terms and conditions.

 

Right, well I didn't see that in your first post, you've just added it. Far as I know the account is still in dispute because you've received an unreadable agreement. I am sure the others will be more helpful. Good luck.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Cartaphilus

[Joe of the Jungle]

Thanks Cartaphilus, any idea what I should do, as to them it is not in dispute no more?

[Joe of the Jungle]

Then it's illegible. Therefore, as PG already mentioned, this now applies to the situation:

 

 

As PG said. You can't read it, how can you tell what you agreed to?

 

 

Right, well I didn't see that in your first post, you've just added it. Far as I know the account is still in dispute because you've received an unreadable agreement. I am sure the others will be more helpful. Good luck.

 

Yeah sorry I added that, I`ll guess I`ll just wait to see what they send in 14 days.

 

Thanks PG and Bazooka

Edited May 27, 2010 by Joe of the Jungle
Missed bits

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Did you send them anything that looks like this?

 

I found this on an older thread, with the same situation:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending an illegible copy of the application form. I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the Act.

 

To clarify, The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 SI No. 1557 states:

 

Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

2.-(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the colour of the paper.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable. I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues.

 

Yours faithfully

[Joe of the Jungle]

Hi,

No I have not replied, The last thing I sent was a dipute letter from the library last week, but now they say I have no grounds for dispute.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

but now they say I have no grounds for dispute.

 

Well, far as I can see and what those regulations says ... it's still in default. As to these:

 

They then followed up with letters about CCJs and charging orders. Last month they sent a letter about getting a statutory demand order.

 

I don't know about 1st credit not having had any personal dealings with them but if they are anything like the other DCAs, would these be the usual threatoratic - empty threat - letters? Full of 'if's mays?' Nothing direct eg 'we will take this action?'

[Joe of the Jungle]

Would it be worth sending your letter above, even though illegebility is what I based the dispute on?

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Well, you've sent them the intial letter and they should already be aware about those regulations. Thus, they already know you have disputed it on those grounds; whether they can read it, you can't and I couldn't, I have 20/20 version when reading so ... it's whether or not you can read it not them. Are they just playing silly beggars? I was thinking whilst making coffee, either they are just trying to scare you, which plenty of DCAs do if they ignore letters from people like the one you've sent them, or are they just exploiting knowledge of those regulations in order to claim they have obligated your request. And you've got the proof of what you sent them in your letter. I am a learner BTW (and very often I am just not that confident to post things), and I don't know a lot of things but seems to me they are ignoring your concerns come what may.

 

Did they say at all or just left it as 'is' in the letter about what would happen in 14 days if no payment was made?

 

What I was trying to say above, is they know damn well what their responsibiities are now they've received your dispute letter. Whether they agree or not.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Cartaphilus

[Joe of the Jungle]

The letter they sent me says that they have supplied the copy agreement/application and my request under s78 has been fulfilled.

 

They also say that the request is not valid (don`t know if thats the cca or the dispute letter.

 

14 days to disscus a proposal is what they put on the letter.

[Bazooka Boo]

From what I can see, or not, it does not contain the 'right to cancel' so does not contain all of the prescribed T&C's required under the CC act.

Apart from it being illegible, you can place the account in dispute, and any reference they make to the contrary, can be suitably ignored, up and until, they get of their backside and issue you with a legally enforceable CCA or take you to court where you can submit an 'embarassed' defence.

 

If you have placed this account in dispute previously then you need do nothing further, if you haven't, then send them the 'failed' letter, do not tell them why, and withhold all payments to them for this unenforceable debt.

[Joe of the Jungle]

Hi Bazooka,

 

I have sent a dispute letter to them, but they are not accepting that the application/agrrement is illegible?

 

There are only small snippets that I can read on the first application and on the second "terms & conditions" it is kind of guess the words, it also does not seem to be part of the same document.

 

Would they have to produce the origional or clearer copy in court if it got that far? I cant see the credit limit, apr, ect

 

edit: looking at the agreement closely, I think the cancelation part is there. So I guess I can only rely on the illegibility part and prehaps the authenticy of what they sent.

[Joe of the Jungle]

Also half the amount is made up of charges.

[Bazooka Boo]

It is illegible, you have the document to prove to the DJ, if it got that far, that this is what they sent you, it matters not that they don't believe the account to be in dispute, they always say that.

 

Account in dispute, document illegible, you have the evidence, withhold all payments to them, and only respond to them 'IF' they issue you with court papers, in which case you will be able to request the documents they will be using to enforce this in court.

 

P.S. Have you claimed back the charges?

[MONX]

Hi Joe

 

Ive had the misfortune of dealing with Ist Crudit!

 

they are very insistant and try to wear you down.

 

You just have to be stubborn and dont let them bully you. As the others say without an enforceable agreement they cant do sqat to you.

 

Monx