Philips

[Jamesx81x]

Hi

 

I emailed Philips regarding 2 outstanding parking fines totalling £460 and offered payments of £60 per month.

 

They replied today stating they require the balance in full due t the age of the account. I only received notification that they were dealing with the account on the 14th May.

 

I am just wondering the options seen as they are demanding the balance in full.

 

Thanks

[fork-it]

if you havnt got the money, theres not alot they can do about it.

 

Until they start being reasonable, keep your door locked and they'll soon go away.

[seanamarts]

Did you receive a NTO?

[Jamesx81x]

I did on one of the accounts dont recall i did on the second.

 

Considering my circumstances the offer i am making is not unreasonable at all. £460 may not be major but it is alot when you do not have it.

 

Just dont want different charges to be added while i am trying to clear it.

 

Thanks

[tomtubby]

if you havnt got the money, theres not alot they can do about it.

 

Until they start being reasonable, keep your door locked and they'll soon go away.

 

I am sorry but this is very bad advice. Bailiffs are routinely instead removing your vehicle outside of your home. Even if a car is kept in a garage it can still be located by way of the bailiffs ANPR vehicle.

[tomtubby]

Hi

 

I emailed Philips regarding 2 outstanding parking fines totalling £460 and offered payments of £60 per month.

 

They replied today stating they require the balance in full due t the age of the account. I only received notification that they were dealing with the account on the 14th May.

 

I am just wondering the options seen as they are demanding the balance in full.

 

Thanks

For EACH parking charge notice you should have received a Notice to Owner, Charge Certificate AND Order for Recovery. If unpaid you may also receive just ONE letter from the bailiff company.

 

If you had not received a Notice to Owner then you need to file an Out of Time Declaration with the Traffic Enforcement Centre. All bailiff actions will have to then CEASE until the local authority consider your application.

 

You need to telephone the Traffic Enforcement Centre on: 08457 045 007.

[Jamesx81x]

Vehicle is on HP so i am just the driver not the legal owner.

 

I have heard cases of them still removing vehicles that or on HP but they can try if they want and let it become a criminal matter.

 

Is there nothing you can apply for throught the courts etc or is it just a case of having to put up with their unreasonable requests and harrasment?

 

Thanks

[tomtubby]

Vehicle is on HP so i am just the driver not the legal owner.

 

I have heard cases of them still removing vehicles that or on HP but they can try if they want and let it become a criminal matter.

 

Is there nothing you can apply for throught the courts etc or is it just a case of having to put up with their unreasonable requests and harrasment?

 

Thanks

In that case the vehicle is exempt from seizure.

 

A bailiff cannot seize goods that he cannot sell and this is one of them.

[Jamesx81x]

Thanks for the advice.

 

Overall i could understand if i was refusing to pay but the fact is i have been in financial hardship of late and have offered £60 a month which is quite a subtantial amount of my monthly budget considering yet they cannot be bothered to compromise.

 

Is it possible to request a statement of account from them detailing all transactions and charges etc?

[RaeUK]

Do you receive income related benefits?

Best wishes

Rae

[Jamesx81x]

No i am full time employed but outgoings are greater than income at present.

[tomtubby]

No i am full time employed but outgoings are greater than income at present.

 

I would strongly suggest that you write again to advise the company that you will not allow the bailiff to have peaceful entry into your home and that the vehicle that you own is subject to hire purchase and that it is therefore exempt from seizure. In the letter you should also confirm that you are copying the letter to the local authority concerned.

[Jamesx81x]

Thanks for the advice.

 

I have sent letters off to philips today informing them they will not be allowed entry and one to the council asking if i can make the payments direct to them. Hopefully they will allow me to do so.

 

Can philips start adding further charges after this? The last letter they sent me informed me they would be adding £60 if the balance had not been paid within 7 days. What exactly is the £60 for?

 

They are just making the situation worse.

 

Thanks

[Jamesx81x]

Hi

 

The council have informed me on a number of occasions that they have placed requests on Philips record system that a payment plan be set up. I have even sent copies of these emails to Philips yet they reply each time by saying they cannot hold action without their clients instruction.

 

What planet are these people on. They are incompetent and illiterate and dont recall ever receiving an email from them that was not full of spelling mistakes.

 

One of their agents recently visited my property when i was at work and tried intimidating my wife and pushing his way past her to which she has 2 witnesses. Is that not a criminal offence under harrassment?

 

What i am wondering is can you report them to Trading Standards and the OFT as they hold a credit licence as i am fed up of trying to deal with this morons.

 

Thanks

[tomtubby]

Hi

 

The council have informed me on a number of occasions that they have placed requests on Philips record system that a payment plan be set up. I have even sent copies of these emails to Philips yet they reply each time by saying they cannot hold action without their clients instruction.

 

What planet are these people on. They are incompetent and illiterate and dont recall ever receiving an email from them that was not full of spelling mistakes.

 

One of their agents recently visited my property when i was at work and tried intimidating my wife and pushing his way past her to which she has 2 witnesses. Is that not a criminal offence under harrassment?

 

What i am wondering is can you report them to Trading Standards and the OFT as they hold a credit licence as i am fed up of trying to deal with this morons.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Which local authority is this?

 

What the council need to be aware of is that they are WHOLLY RESPONSIBLE for the actions of THEIR bailiffs. They can ORDER the bailiff to accept your offer of repayment.

[Jamesx81x]

Its Doncaster Council.

 

They have emailed them on a number of occasions but Philips are to thick to acknowledge their requests.

 

Am really cheesed off over their agents behaviour too and have brought this to their attention but they dont seem to want to address it.

 

Thanks

[Jamesx81x]

Gets better with these idiots.

 

Today i had a removal notice posted through my door explaining they attended my premises with a view to remove goods. There was no knock at the door and i seen the notice been pushed through within the 5 seconds it took me to open the door he had gone. Some removal procedure.

 

Also stated that they may re-attend with a locksmith to remove goods in accordance with law. What law is this exactly and what authority? Seen as they have never gained entry or do not hold any kind of warrant to do so.

[JH101]

I'm starting to suspect that Philips maybe don't even have a complaints department. The only response I've had from letters I've written to them is a set of standard account breakdown printouts, weeks later, which wasn't actually what I'd asked for, and addressed none of the points that I'd made. Even sending them a special TT "you've been paid, go away" letter made no impact. Philips standard call centre operators tell me that there is nobody in complaints that they can put me through to; and they cannot see through their screens either my letters, Philips' responses, or any log of what Complaints/Custeomer Services might be doing with my case.

 

Has anybody else therefore to achieve any point of contact with the mythical Philips complaints/customer services people?

 

In my experience, the only way to go is through the local authority -- because they by law do have to respond to complaints/customer services. The Council's "in-house debt management team" (or equivalent) should have full read access to the detailed information about you on the Philips system.

 

Therefore, I would suggest:

 

1. Urgently ring the council. Confirm with them that there is no record of Philips having successfully levied you; therefore Philips they cannot remove or break in.

 

2. Ask for the account to be put "on hold" until Philips verify what they think they're doing to the Council. (The Council have codes to instruct Philips to do this instantly).

 

3. Request that the warrant be withdrawn altogether from Philips in view of their longstanding and manifest cluelessness (of which you can provide copious examples).

 

4. Make a formal complaint to the Council complaints unit, headed "formal complaint", with an addditional copy to the Council's chief executive, detailing every aspect of Philips's hopelessness, and re-iterating your request for the warrant to be withdrawn from Philips so that you can from now on deal exclusively with the Council directly.

 

From my experience, the latter should finally produce a cascade of correspondence from Philips, backdated a week (unless their letters really take 8 days to deliver), which will still answer none of your questions. But you should get a formal answer from the Council within 14 days, which you can then if necessary escalate through the Council's appeal procedures, and ultimately if necessary take to the Local Government Ombudsman.

Edited July 14, 2010 by JH101

[Jamesx81x]

Thanks for the advice i have tried contact with the Parking Department who have advised me they have requested Philips set up a payment plan but ultimately refer me back to Philips over the account. Think i will next try your 4th point.

 

What they need to understand is i have never once refused any payment it is Philips incomeptence that is the delay.

 

I am not happy over the agents behaviour when attending and see is actions as harrassment towards my wife. Philips have not even akcnolwedged this point when i brought it up.

 

Today just takes the P*** really as i am sure i will be charged for a removal attempt even though all he did was post the notice and run off more than likely as he sen the car and knew i was in. Cant bully me like he can women.

 

Does anyone know what they can charge in relation to visits? The first time they charged £78 the second visit they charged £86. Why the difference in amount? Furthermore how can they prove they have actually been if i am not in and they are not just saying so to add further charges.

 

Thanks for the advice, its appreciated.

[JH101]

Fees for collection stemming from a PCN are statutarily regulated by the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993, as amended 2003.

 

The bailiff company Equita has a consolidated version online at

http://www.equita.co.uk/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=r0du9hZ12t0%3d&tabid=202

 

If a PCN starts at £x, the council can add 50% for late payment, then a further £5 to register it with the court (specifically the TEC in Northampton) to get a "warrant of execution" to authorise bailiff action. So that is how the original PCN has increased to what you now owe the Council.

 

The bailiff company can then charge you one warning letter/admin fee for each warrant; on top of that they can then charge you "visit" fees up to 28% of the first £200 (including any VAT) that you owe, 5.5% thereafter. Plus they will bill VAT on their fees.

 

The running amount you owe goes up with unpaid visit fees -- so the second fee is bigger because it includes a %age of the unpaid first fee.

£39 for a first visit fee, and £43 for a second visit fee, look to be in line with the caps set by law.

 

However, the bailiff company can only charge you "reasonable" expenses (meaning necessary and actual). If the visit for the second PCN was made at the same time as the first, there is no actual additional cost involved (Throssell v. Leeds City Council), so that is not allowable. If the visit for the second PCN could have been made at the same time as the first, then there was no necessary additional cost involved, so this is again challengeable (though at the moment it does tend to be bailiff standard practice).

 

Visit fees can only be charged if a genuine certificated bailiff has really been round to your property with a genuine intention to levy. If you advise Philips you intend to challenge their fees, they need to be able to substantiate all three of these points, as well as producing a calculation to justify why their claimed cost is so big as to reach the capped maximum set by law.

 

If the claimed visit has been made after the Council had instructed Philips to offer you a payment plan that you would have been ready to pay, then it is not reasonable, because Philips then had instructions not to levy, but to first try to negotiate a payment plan with you.

 

Currently Philips appear to be behaving as if they have already managed to levy you, and are now proceeding to removal stage.

 

You need to be absolutely certain on this point -- is there any possibility that anyone in your house could ever have let anyone from Philips over the threshold - under any pretext? If there's even the possibility that that might have happened, you could be in a much worse position.

 

You must find out what has been claimed to have been going on, and when.

 

Try Philips again. If you get no sense, try Parking again, and demand that *they* talk to Philips themselves to establish what the position is, while you wait on the telephone on hold, because you can't get access to anyone at Philips who will give you a straight answer. Specifically, has there been a levy? And should Philips still be trying to levy you, when the Council has instructed them to talk to you about a payments plan?

 

If you really can't get any sense out of Parking, ask them whether the Council has an "in-house debt management team" or similar you could talk to instead, and also full details of the Council's complaints/customer services team, that you may also be able to talk to by telephone, since this is an emergency.

 

If Philips are threatening to break your door down, you need to get this stopped.

Edited July 14, 2010 by JH101

[Jamesx81x]

They have never been inside my property only tried to push their way past my wife.(unprofessional conduct and harrassment).

 

It is not a magistrates fine so they have no power of entry other than peaceful entry.

 

They are doing my head in with their level of comeptence.

 

One more thing can parking charges be included in a DMP?

 

Thanks

[Jamesx81x]

Hi again

 

With reference to bailiffs and DCA's i understand their is case law that states it is the local authority that are ultimately responsible for the companies they instruct behaviour and actions when collecting on accounts.

 

Does anyone know which one this is?

 

Thanks

[JH101]

It's a basic principle of the law of agency in English law ("vicarious liability"). The debt is still owned by the council, the bailiffs are acting as their agents.

 

If you bring something wrong with their agent to the Council's attention (and, sometimes, even if you don't), and they do nothing to put it right, then you can sue the Council for your loss.

 

Another also practical form of responsibility is that if you make a formal complaint about the Council's agents (head it formal complaint, address it to the compaints unit, copy to the chief executive), they have a duty to investigate it. If the stage 1 response is not satisfactory when it returns after a fortnight, you can escalate it to stage 2, and then stage 3 (Chief Executive level); and if at that stage you still don't get a response you consider satisfactory, you can take it to the Local Government Ombudsman, who have the power if required to make the Council totally re-write its systems.

 

If you're going down this route, you may want to also talk to the CAB or a councillor.

 

That's the theory, anyway. But no doubt there are people here who can also quote cases. And obviously, the more you know, the more power that gives you at every stage of the journey.

 

Thurrock was a nice one recently, where the LA, under impending pressure from the LGO, agreed to refund everybody who'd paid a contractor (Vertex Ltd.) an unlawful fee.

Local Government Ombudsman • Thurrock Council charged illegal fee for council tax payment plan

 

Anybody got any other nice choice examples?