Hceo

[Acropolis]

Had a visit this morning from a HCEO for a debt to a solicitors company.

 

I dont dispute the debt and will happily pay this and any court costs.

 

But I am a little concerned about the amount of charges they have applied for the HCEO visit.

 

He turned up, wrote down the details of the car outside, then knocked the door. Didnt answer the door and spoke to him through the window, he left me an envelope with some info in it and then went.

 

Is there a maximum/guideline they are allowed to charge for visits etc? Or can they simply charge what they feel like.

 

Below is a breakdown of the costs.

 

Debt - £617.28

Court Costs & Interest - £265.89

Sherforce Charge - £846.45

 

That seems massively excessive to me, as it is only £36 short of been the amount of the debt, surely they cannot charge that much.

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

[ploddertom]

Did you know there was a CCJ against you?

 

With him having levied on your car I can guarantee they will be back to lift it. Sherforce's fees are all front loaded and you will need to send them a SAR to get all the relevant details - cost £10. In the meantime if you have not paid they will be back and would estimate at least £5/600 for next visit.

 

PT

[Acropolis]

I have spoken to their office and they are meant to be sending me a breakdown of the charges they have applied to the account.

 

I have explained to them that the car is not mine and is on contract hire for the company which I work for. and is not even registered in the companies name, let alone my name. So they shouldnt be able to take that should they?

 

I am waiting for the charges to come through, they did explain them to me over the phone, but the numbers he gave me didnt add up to anything near what they have added to the account.

 

They have tried charging twice for certain things. So am now waiting for the breakdown to come through.

 

I am not sure if he has leived on the vehicle or not, as he didnt leave me any paperwork to say that he has, but he did note down the details of the vehicle. Does this mean he has levied on it or not?

[ploddertom]

I have spoken to their office and they are meant to be sending me a breakdown of the charges they have applied to the account.

 

That's OK but doesn't tell the whole story - see below

 

I have explained to them that the car is not mine and is on contract hire for the company which I work for. and is not even registered in the companies name, let alone my name. So they shouldnt be able to take that should they?

 

Big sigh of relief - however it will pay you to able to provide them with some form of documentation as to who it does belong to - also ask them to do a DVLA check.

 

I am waiting for the charges to come through, they did explain them to me over the phone, but the numbers he gave me didnt add up to anything near what they have added to the account.

 

They have tried charging twice for certain things. So am now waiting for the breakdown to come through.

 

No surprise there

 

I am not sure if he has leived on the vehicle or not, as he didnt leave me any paperwork to say that he has, but he did note down the details of the vehicle. Does this mean he has levied on it or not?

 

Due to it not being yours that should irrelevant now

 

 

The breakdown of charges you get will be just that and nothing more - usually a one sheet piece of paper with lots of figures on it. You need more than this and that is why I suggested getting a SAR. THis lists everything and should include the Field Officers Report & the "activity report". The second mentioned is a very valuable tool as it lists everything to do with your case from the time they received the instructions. It also contains a listing of every charge and when it was applied - you do need this and it will be one of the best £10 you will ever spend. It will help you challenge the charges.

 

PT

[Acropolis]

Right I have had the breakdown through of the charges, would someone be kind enough to have a look through and see if htey are right and if they are able to charge such high fee's for Part C fee 12, as the guidelines as I see them are very vague on this matter.

 

I am a little confused as to how they can charge a seizure fee and walking possession fee when they have neither seized anything or have a signed walking possession order, neither have they been inside the house.

[Acropolis]

Can anyone offer me an opinion on this, before I pay it Monday morning?

[ploddertom]

There's quite a few anomalies on there that can be challenged:

 

Percentage of amount recovered - nothing was recovered

Seizure fee - nothing seized

Making enquiries - on what & what for

Walking Possession - nothing seized/levied nothing signed

Valuation Fee - on what

 

Financial Management Fee - explain & justify

Admin Fee - explain & justify

 

The last 2 may be reduced.

 

I note you say you may be able to pay this off. I would suggest that yes do pay it then they have no lever to come back at you. If you can I would suggest paying it ASAP before anyone calls again and loads more fees on. Once you have paid then you can take your time to collect whatever you need to challenge any fees which you feel may be unfair or excessive.

 

As I have said previously a SAR is your best weapon for this.

 

PT

[Acropolis]

I will be paying it monday morning to stop them for now, then challening them as to what they are allowed/are not allowed etc.

 

From speaking to them today they have come out with interesting comments though. The vehicle they believe the have rightfully levied on is a lease vehicle. It is on long term lease to my company, a Ltd company of which I am a director. The debt is mine personally and nothing to do with the company and not in the company name. But they seem to think that because I am a director of the company they can take the vehicle, even though it isnt mine, or even the companies, it is long term lease. This I explained to them and even offered to send them a copy of the letter I have from the lease company stating that they own the vehicle, they just laughed down the phone at me. They also seem to think that because I am a director of the company, they can go into the company premises and seize the companies property to pay my debt. Now if I was a sole trader then quite possibly, but as it is a Ltd company, then surely they cannot do this as the company is its own legal entity.

 

How do I go about getting an detailed explanation of what the financial management fee and admin charge cover?

[ploddertom]

 

How do I go about getting an detailed explanation of what the financial management fee and admin charge cover?

 

 

Quite simple you ask - you'll get a load of flannel but keep going at them. I can't stress enough that a SAR is your best tool of defence here.

 

PT

[ohitsonlyme]

This is deja vue,If you can, pay them off as soon as possible to stop them coming back for another visit.

As PT says they load it all up front end and this is fraud!!

 

 

I have been to the high court twice and beat them and have an appeal inplace for further costs

 

Read my threads surrounding sherfarce I will help you all I can

The police are investigating this companyif you need any help shout up

Although the SAR will help it wont stop them from coming back and getting more charges in

 

The fees they have charged are incorrect and the high court will not allow them but you have to push real hard to sort it out and be very determined

 

Onlyme and many more sherfarce haters

[ohitsonlyme]

Right I have had the breakdown through of the charges, would someone be kind enough to have a look through and see if htey are right and if they are able to charge such high fee's for Part C fee 12, as the guidelines as I see them are very vague on this matter.

 

I am a little confused as to how they can charge a seizure fee and walking possession fee when they have neither seized anything or have a signed walking possession order, neither have they been inside the house.

These fes are incorrect and will not stand up to the scrutiny of a master

[ohitsonlyme]

Can anyone offer me an opinion on this, before I pay it Monday morning?

 

Pay it all it stops more fees in the long run you will win,and then you are in the same position as I was I have template letters for you to send to them, to the police and to the courts

 

onlyme

[BankFodder]

Sorry about the plug but the bailiff book which we currently have on offer will tell you all about the charges which may be levied against you and how you can challenge them.

 

I agree, that if you can you should pay off now and then take steps to complain later if you have a good basis.

[BankFodder]

11.5 National Standard for Enforcement Agencies

It is clear from the attention given to fees by the National Standard that the

government is aware that it is an area of dispute between debtors and

bailiffs. Various recommendations are made, which build upon the principles

laid out in the Introduction earlier:

• agents should provide clear & prompt information to debtors. They

should explain the consequences of seizure and the fees charged so far as

well as those possible in the future;

• whenever a fee is incurred, notice of this and of any previous fees

charged should be given. This need for notice is clearly an attempt to

ensure that fees charged are for work actually undertaken, in order to try

to deal with the problem of ‘ghost visits’ and the like;

• a detailed breakdown of fees should be supplied on receiving a written

request from the debtor or that person’s representative.

The latter clause of the Standard has proved particularly valuable since it

was introduced in 2002. It is important for advisers to obtain this

information and then to compare it to the statutory fee scale and to the

debtor’s account of what has taken place. This breakdown may thus provide

the foundation for some form of challenge to the fees- see the next section.

It should also be noted that the OFT debt collection guidelines (where they

are applicable) also make recommendations about fees. Licensed firms are

warned that it is improper to:

• claim collection costs in the absence of express legal provision; and,

• apply unreasonable charges which are not based on actual and necessary

costs or applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.

11.6 Remedies for disputed charges

Generally specific remedies will have to be employed for challenging disputed

charges. It will probably not be possible to sue for trespass or illegal distress, ....

The Consumer Forums - Bailiffs - Debtors Rights and Remedies in the Law of Seizure of Goods

[seanamarts]

Admin fee £300.00

[Dodgy Geezer]

Personally, when this happened to me, i refused to pay them one penny. Paid the original debtor, and told Sherfarce to sue me for their fees.

 

They can add what fees they like, and push as many pieces of paper through the door as they like. They dont have any power to enforce the debt unless you give it to them.,

 

Never heard from them again.

 

Why pay unlawful fees then struggle to claim them back ?

[High Court Enforcer]

Sorry about the plug but the bailiff book which we currently have on offer will tell you all about the charges which may be levied against you and how you can challenge them.

 

Does this book you're plugging detail fees chargeable by High Court Enforcement Officers then?

[High Court Enforcer]

Personally, when this happened to me, i refused to pay them one penny. Paid the original debtor, and told Sherfarce to sue me for their fees.

 

They can add what fees they like, and push as many pieces of paper through the door as they like. They dont have any power to enforce the debt unless you give it to them.,

 

Never heard from them again.

 

Why pay unlawful fees then struggle to claim them back ?

 

Firstly, any payment sent to the claimant has to be forwarded to the HCEO. They will take their fees (part or in full) from this and pursue you for the rest.

 

Secondly, Dodgy Geezer is talking out of his rear as usual by stating that the HCEO doesnt have any power to enforce the debt. The very nature of the judgment and subsequent writ of fi-fa gives the HCEO more powers than any other enforcement service.

[Dodgy Geezer]

Firstly, any payment sent to the claimant has to be forwarded to the HCEO. They will take their fees (part or in full) from this and pursue you for the rest.

 

Secondly, Dodgy Geezer is talking out of his rear as usual by stating that the HCEO doesnt have any power to enforce the debt. The very nature of the judgment and subsequent writ of fi-fa gives the HCEO more powers than any other enforcement service.

 

If you tell them to F OFF, as i am telling you to do so, there is NOTHING you can do about it is there?

 

If there is WHATS THAT big mouth??

[ohitsonlyme]

Personally, when this happened to me, i refused to pay them one penny. Paid the original debtor, and told Sherfarce to sue me for their fees.

 

They can add what fees they like, and push as many pieces of paper through the door as they like. They dont have any power to enforce the debt unless you give it to them.,

 

Never heard from them again.

 

Why pay unlawful fees then struggle to claim them back ?

 

DG Your case was totally different than acropolis in so much that you managed to pay a utilities company and they didnt know how to handle you so I think you got away with it to date, but I am not sure if you will in the long run only time will tell.

 

and I am reluctant on this occasion to say this but I agree with HCEO for the first time in history

 

Pay it and then sort them out

 

I was dealing with a firm of solicitors exactly the same as Acropolis and they were a pain the a....e abut they are getting the grief now along side sherfarce !!!

 

Onlyme

[Dodgy Geezer]

 

and I am reluctant on this occasion to say this but I agree with HCEO for the first time in history

 

Pay it and then sort them out

 

 

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, as i am mine.

 

But my circumstances were EXACTLY the same. It wasn't a utility bill that i was paying, but i will leave it there.

 

Im afraid your response is based on fear, and that's exactly why they have got away with extortion for decades.

 

Its time to stand up for yourself, or suffer the consequences.

 

I OPENLY invite HCEO or any other party to tell me what they can do if i refuse to deal with them. Years of experience and research can answer that question.

 

NOTHING.

 

Apart from apply for an Entry Warrant which are rarely, if ever granted, in cases such as this.

[ohitsonlyme]

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, as i am mine.

 

But my circumstances were EXACTLY the same. It wasn't a utility bill that i was paying, but i will leave it there.

oops Sorry I got you mixed up with debt weary

Im afraid your response is based on fear, and that's exactly why they have got away with extortion for decades.

I am not afraid of them I have been to the high court twice and won both times They are afraid of me so I am standing up for myself and still fighting them not for my money back but for them to feel the s...t and boy are they feeling it!!!

 

They will get away with it unless we fight them with the law and not simply tell them to go away which ever way we decide to fight them

 

Its time to stand up for yourself, or suffer the consequences.

 

I OPENLY invite HCEO or any other party to tell me what they can do if i refuse to deal with them. Years of experience and research can answer that question.

 

NOTHING.

This is all very well if you are thick skinned and your missus can sleep ok

But not so good otherwise if your waiting for the next visit to take your car at 7 in the morning unless of course you want to hide it a mile away every night for 12 months

Apart from apply for an Entry Warrant which are rarely, if ever granted, in cases such as this.

 

 

 

How are you going on acropolis???

[Acropolis]

Paid it all on monday morning, so at least they are off my back.

 

Now its time to try and get back at least some of the charges that they have claimed. It went up by another £30 or so, as they put charges on there for a HPI and DVLA check as well.

 

So now they are not going to come and try to steal the car anymore, what's the best way to go about it?

[ploddertom]

Subject Access Request

 

PT

[ohitsonlyme]

I agree with PT send a SAR off £10, I am tight on time but will pm some template letters to you later.

 

I have a meeting with a DI in the fraud squad re SF in 15 minutes and a hearing at the high court tomorrow!!

 

onlyme