Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

AIC CCJ Threat


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5146 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi all I'm new here and its maybe a bit late in the day but I've been reading the problems people have being having with AIC and AMEX, so I'm just after a bit of advise.

 

A bit of background on my problem first of all.

 

Around 6 months ago I had moved address, I had changed address with my bank who for some reason decided to cancel all my direct debits. I thought I got them all back up and running apart from AMEX, who admittedly I'd forgot all about. I don't use the card (in fact its cut up and probably lining a landfill somewhere) and just had the direct debit set up to collect £75 per month to clear it, I never even paid it any attention month after month, it was there and it got paid.

 

Last week I realised that AMEX were not getting paid, obviously I had not been getting any letters at all due to moving address, so I rang them and they passed me around a few departments until I had one person say that they have cancelled the account and will not reverse the decision and passed me onto a company called AIC.

 

The initial conversation was last Thursday, in which I told them I was more than willing to pay whatever was outstanding (around £350 based on minimum payments by my figuring) and get the direct debit set back up for the £75. The person said let me see what I can do and he'll get back to me the next day. They never did.

 

Yesterday I got a text message asking me to call them as a matter to priority before 5pm. Which I did and now I'm being threatened with all sorts, if I don't pay £1900.06 Funny how the debt was around £1500. Bankruptcy, unemployment (I'm not sure how), repossession of my home (which is rented :lol:) assets frozen or siezed by bayliffs (what assets, I've just moved out of the parents trying to set myself up for the life ahead, most expensive thing I own is a £200 sofa from Ikea) etc etc

 

They decided to give me two options, either pay £1400 or pay a down payment of £740 with 12 payments of £95 and if I can't pay ask friends or family to pay it for me(no). Frankly I cannot afford an intial payment of £740 nevermind the £1400, I'm due to call them tomorrow again not even sure what to say to them, and after reading some posts I most certainly will not be giving them my debit card details.

 

However after discovering this site, I've came to learn that AIC are nothing but bullies. I am tempted to ring AMEX back tomorrow and negotiate with them, but I've been seing a lot of people recommend that I ask for a CCA and not to pay anything until I get this. I'm not even sure what this is, or why I would need it.

 

So can anybody offer any advice of this most disturbing chain of events.

 

Like I say I am more than willing to pay whatever it outstanding on the 6 or so months and continue to pay it off, but will not be bullied into paying more than I can afford to. I took the card out around 2001-time (in my silly youth days). Would it be advisable to try and negotiate with AMEX?

 

Thanks in advance.

Link to post
Share on other sites

These people are parasites, you will not be made bankrupt for £1500, you are a million miles away from bailiffs.

You pay what you can afford, no court would make you pay more than you can afford.

You could send in a CCA request to see if the alleged debt is enforceable, especially if they refuse your offer. If it isn't enforceable you could then offer a F&F starting at around 5-10%.

I have no legal training, any knowledge I have has come from this forum, and my own experiences. Always balance up any advice you get with your own common sense.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you. Thats exactly what I thought, I'm not one to get intimidated, but those calls were disturbing. I can imagine them scaring the bajeebus out of more timid folk.

 

Anyway, I'm not really educated in the financial world, I'm assuming F&F is a Full and Final offer? In which I would offer them a settlement but only if the CCA is not enforceable? I'll do some digging as I hate to keep asking, but how would I know if a CCA is not enforceable?

 

Also any advice on what I should say to AIC tomorrow when I ring them? They said I need to ring them tomorrow with a decision or they'll "start proceedings."

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't ring them at all - and they won't start proceedings or anyhting else. If you speak to DCAs all they do is lie to you, threaten you and try to pressurise you into paying more than you can afford. Everything in writing and you then have a record of transactions.

 

CCA request letter.

 

Print, don't sign, your name, enclose a £1 postal order and send by Recorded Delivery - they have 12 (+2 for admin) days to reply. If they don't reply in that time you can put the Account in Dispute(there is a template) and not pay them anything unless they send an agreement and it is enforceable. Scan and post whatever they send on here (cover over your personal deatils) and we will advise you whether it is enforceable or not.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to the CAG and the wonderful world of bullies and liars called DCA's

 

send them a cca, and also report them to the oft for the threatening phone call they made to you, and while you are at it write to amex and get their official complaints procedure and complain to them about the cretins they use

Link to post
Share on other sites

HI guys,

 

Thanks for the advice, I did not ring them today but they rang me, 3 minutes before "deadline". I didn't bother answering. The CCA request will be sent first thing on Monday by recorded delivery. (I have work tomorrow unfortunately).

 

I'll keep you informed and updated of any progress.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They are downright wicked. They frightened the life out of me when they called and threatened me with all their lies. That was just before I found CAG, thank God.

 

The thing that does make me happy though is that I offered them £1000 and they refused it, and by the time they called me the next day I had, in total hysterics, called the FSA who put me in touch with CCCS who gave me a reference number and told me it was all lies and to pay them nothing. So greed got them nothing. :D

 

When did you take your Amex card out?

 

DD

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again guys.

 

I read about your story Desperate Daniella. Thats how I found this site, I googled about AIC and scams because something just did not add up. Your thread was top of the list.

 

I took the card out in 2001-2002.

 

I got a text message earlier this evening around 6pm that says the following:

 

"MrXXXX. Your account is now being actioned, I can only stop this if you contact me at AIC on my direct line 0141XXXXXX."

 

I assume this is more scare tactics? Would it be worth me phoning them tomorrow and asking them to stop the harrassing phone calls/messages and I only want any further contact in writing, otherwise I'll contact the OFT. CCA letter is ready to be posted tomorrow morning as well. Should I mention this to them?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Beerbottle,

 

If my story got you here where you will find help I'm delighted. :) I just feel so sorry for people out there who will be absolutely terrified tonight because they've had their first call from AIC.

 

It is another scare tactic. Don't speak to them because they are just so abusive. Send them the harassment letter and, yes, tell them you have requested a copy of your CCA and if they have anything further to say to you they can put it all in writing. They don't like putting their threats on paper.

 

There is a huge amount going on with Amex at the moment, and a lot more will be happening in the coming months. They do take people to court - but equally people are defending against them and winning.

 

When you get your agreement remove the personal details and post it up - and I'd suggest starting a new thread for it with Amex in the title. I was hunting for about six months for an Amex agreement which was exactly the same as mine and I found it totally by accident because it was actually on a thread covering two cards and was headed MBNA!!!!

 

It is incredibly important to compare what is happening with other people who have the same card(s) as you do because you can see what the card companies are claiming in relation to the agreements. It's also interesting to see the various cut and paste jobs they come up with - MSDW ones are absolutely incredible. :D

 

Amex, by the way, have had faulty Default Notices for years. Have they sent you one?

 

If you get an unenforceable CCA you can always negotiate a settlement, on the understanding that they remove any Defaults on your credit card as part of the agreement.

 

Unfortunately they don't just roll over and say, "okay, it's unenforceable and we'll go away now and write it off." I actually thought that was what would happen - before I found CAG, obviously.

 

Anyway, let's see what you get from your CCA request, and then you can decide what to do.

 

DDxx

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...