Car accident, Insurance dispute.

[sim42]

I really need your help. Been on this website before and you saved my life...heres hoping you can again!

About a month ago I was involved in a minor accident between two other drivers. It was at a blind junction. I was turning right on a green light. To my right (the road I'm turning down) was another driver sitting at a red light in the right hand lane.

As I’m turning right an ambulance has shot through the blind junction on a red light at around 40-50mph. I have to swerve to avoid a very serious side swipe collision with the ambulance and because there’s nowhere to go I have a minor collision with the car driver.

When we all pulled over the car driver admitted it was the ambulances fault. The ambulance driver didn't admit or contest liability. Unfortunately there weren’t any independent witnesses. I did request the police attend but as it wasn't a criminal matter they didn't do anything.

So, when I got home I inform my insurance and put a claim against the ambulances insurance. I chased the ambulance insured a few days ago. They have requested a witness statement from the car driver.

He has now completely changed his story saying I was at fault. I am outraged. In my opinion his statement is full of bare faced lies. He couldn't even get established facts correct like conditions, positions date etc. I'm sure he's done this to get a quick but very unjust resolution. Basically he wants his car fixed asap and he don't care who from.

Now as a result the ambulance insured say they aren't paying out and I'm assuming the car driver is going to try and claim of me.

What do I do now? I'm thinking of taking this to a small claims court.

Please any advice would be greatly appreciated:)

[the_freedom_trail]

Hi Sim42,

 

It sounds like this may be your first accident?

 

Do not worry, all is not lost in this matter.

 

First of all, you say it was a junction - is the junction covered by any CCTV at all.

 

Secondly, evidence of the layout of the junction and the impact areas on the vehicles should show what happened. The Police are able to reconstruct accident's all the time by using similar methods.

 

Thirdly, the ambulance driver will be well briefed to not admit any liability. This shouldn't be overly difficult as the one who was not technically driving in accordance with the roads was the ambulance driver.

 

I would get on to google earth to first see if you can get an aerial view of the accident site. Secondly, get down to the site and take as many photo's as possible. Once you have this info draw up a detailed plan showing exactly what took place. The damage on your vehicle will support things like the claimed speed you were doing at the time.

 

Whatever you do, don't admit liability in this matter.

 

Regards,

 

TFT

[sim42]

Thanks freedom trail for your reply;

 

Yeah you're are right this is my first accident- is it that obvious?

 

Like I say this happened about a month ago now. In that time my own insurance company requested a desciption of events. I wrote this up including detailed google earth and streetview pictures. I also sent this to the other insurers.

 

I don't think the junction was covered by CCTV. I have tried to obtain all evidence I can such as the ambulances blackbox or if they video record but all to no avail. I did have a passenger in my car who fully backs me up but i guess this would be seen as a biased opinion. Both the ambulance and car driver also had passengers.

 

I have not and will not admit liability. I believe I avoided a major crash which would have resulted in serious injuries. I know it was my right of way. Whats more the junction is a four way staggered junction so the ambulance was way over the traffic light stop area. There was no siren but blue lights apparently. Given the nature of the junction, the speed and lighting conditions these were of no use.

 

At the moment I have informed my insurance company in no uncertain terms to not pay out. They can't do this without my say so anyway, can they?

 

The witness statement is just full of lies and errors. The car driver is now claiming the ambulance had stopped to let me go, which is utter nonsence. I think basically he has been briefed by his insurance company to fully lay the blame on someone to get a quick payout and he has chosen me.

 

Also the ambulances insurance stated all other vehicles had managed to aviod it so i should have as well. BUT it was late at night and there were no other vehicles! It's full of holes like that!

 

So whats the next step to take from here?

[crem]

Also the ambulances insurance stated all other vehicles had managed to aviod it so i should have as well.

 

On this point alone I would be fuming like you!

 

It is not the responsibility of every other road user to "avoid" the ambulance. If the junction is "blind" like you describe, then I would have expected the ambulance to use the siren as well as blue lights. Even then, these are only a "request" for you to give them clear passage if you can safely do so and by no means remove your right of way when using a traffic light system correctly.

[patdavies]

Also the ambulances insurance stated all other vehicles had managed to aviod it so i should have as well.

 

The use of a blue light does give any vehicle priority over others - it is effectively a request to be allowed the courtesy of precedence.

 

There is no legal requirement to move over or give way to a blue light vehicle. (cf. Germany where a blue light gives ABSOLUTE right of way)

 

As Police drivers often say, "allow us to find the way through".

[sim42]

So everyone agrees that the ambulance was going through a red light. Without worrying about the other complexities for a moment, surely that by itself means no matter what this car driver says full responsibilty can't be forced on me?!!

[Jimbo-Jones]

I understand that Blue light vehicles may proceed through a redlight but they must treat it like a giveway sign and certainly not by flying through at high speed on a staggered cross road with limited visibility.

 

Im interested in the fact that knowing the layout of the roundabout they did not use a siren to announce their presence and warn other road users to themselves.

[sim42]

I understand that Blue light vehicles may proceed through a redlight but they must treat it like a giveway sign and certainly not by flying through at high speed on a staggered cross road with limited visibility.

 

Im interested in the fact that knowing the layout of the roundabout they did not use a siren to announce their presence and warn other road users to themselves.

 

They definitely did not use their siren. (Btw it wasn't a roundabout, just traffic light controlled crossroads).

You're right. Emergency vehicles must treat red lights as give ways. I think he thought as it was night-time there wouldn't be anyone around so he stormed through.

Today I have written letters to all three insurers to state my position and to threaten a small courts claim, sent by recorded delivery.

My primary concern is my insurance trying to pay out without my permission. Can they do this without my agreement?

Any ideas of what I should do next?

[Cobra11]

SIM42,

 

Check this link to Unison website re ambulances and red light.

http://www.neasunisonbranch.co.uk/s9y/index.php?/archives/407-Blue-light-Driving-Red-Traffic-Lights!.html

[sim42]

Cobra11, thanks for the link.

While that confirms I'm correct and the ambulance wrong, the thing about disciplinary action being taken may work against me. Won't this just mean he will be more determined not to own up?!

I really want to make it clear that I don't want this to in anyway affect his job. It was an accident, and accidents happen. I just don't want to be punished for something which wasn't my fault.

We have an exemption to treat the red light as a give way, however should staff have an accident whilst proceeding through a Red Traffic Light, though the Police may decide not to prosecute, the NEAS NHS Trust will carry out an investigation and may choose to invoke the disciplinary procedure, as has recently happened.

So the NHS should be making their own investigation then? Should I write to them?[/font]

[sim42]

....so just two questions that will really put my mind at rest;

Can my insurance company accept responsibility on my behalf without my permission?

and

If the worst comes to the worst and I'm forced to unjustly accept liability will I lose all my no claims bonus or just be knocked back a few years? I currently have the maximum no claims.

[mightymouse_69]

 

Can my insurance company accept responsibility on my behalf without my permission?

 

 

I think they probably can.

 

Your insurance co. will do what is best for them - i.e. what ever costs them less. This may be accepting a proportion of the blame and getting the case over and done with, rather than accepting no blame and having the case drag on.

 

I am willing to be corrected on this point however.

[sim42]

so any ideas on what to do now....? X:)

[Mossycat]

If I am reading this right, you took evasive action to avoid an ambulance coming through a red light and you hit another car. There was no actual collision between the ambulance and any other car?

 

If that's correct then without independent evidence you will have a hard time defending a claim against you, which is why your insurers will have accepted liability on your behalf.

 

Just as an aside, when you completed your accident report form (claim form) you asked your insurers for indemnity, ie they would act on your behalf, so it is their decision whether to accept liability and what payments to make.

 

Mossy

[crem]

In hindsight, it would have been far better to let the ambulance hit you instead of you avoiding the ambulance and striking another car!

[sim42]

I know! BUT I’m still glad I didn't because I reckon I would be in hospital now.

Mossy: My insurers haven't accepted liability currently. I can understand where you're coming from and you're right; I am indeed having a hard time trying to defend myself.

I am now going to take this to the small claims court. While there were no independent witnesses who actually saw the collision, there were some who heard the subsequent conversations where the car driver said the ambulance was at fault.

I have written to them informing them of my intentions. I can also quote a few case studies similar to mine. I really can't see how they can deny that at the very least the ambulance being there caused this.

Oh well.... see what happens!