IB50 Renewal

[odds]

I need to get this filled in and sent off soon but was just wondering about something. In the letter it says do not send any documents etc with the IB50, send them to the office dealing with your claim.

So, who actually decides what action to take ?

Is it ATOS who only have my IB50 and no medical report to back up my claim, or is it the JCP that have a medical report but no IB50 to compare it with.

It just seems strange that the 2 documents that are used to make a decision go to 2 different places.

Last time I sent ATOS a copy of my doctors sick note despite what it said in the letter, what do other people do ?

By the way, the report I have is one that my doctor filled in for CAB when I appealed my DLA renewal and I got the decision reversed. Am I right in sending this to the JCP ?

 

Any advice.

[loan_ranger]

Hi odds,

when you send off the IB50 it goes to the DWP (as indicated by the address on the free postage envelope supplied with the form). A DWP "Decision Maker" will check the form, and based on what you have written therein, the DM decides whether you should go to Atos for an exam, or if you have indicated this - your disability is serious enough for Atos to come to your home to conduct the exam, or they may decide that you qualify for I.B. and that no medical is required. Somewhere in the form it asks you about medical treatment which you have been receiving, when, where and from whom, e.g. Doctors, Therapists and Consultants etc.. The DM may then contact them for more information/evidence about your condition - make sure that you fill in this bit as fully as possible. Also somewhere in the form it asks you to describe how your condition affects you, this is where you should give as much detail as you can - the more the better. You will find that the space provided for your answer is too small, however it says that you may continue on another page or add pages of your own. When I did my last one 2 years ago I added 3 pages of info regarding my Asperger's Syndrome and how it had affected me in the working environment - I was pleasantly surprised a few weeks later when the DWP sent me a letter telling me that I would continue to be awarded I.B. and that no medical exam was required.

If you add extra pages be sure to write on each page your name, date of birth, N.I. number, the date of sending and title each page e.g. "IB50 Supplementary information" and "page 1/3, 2/3, 3/3" etc.

It will also help you if you bear in mind the "health descriptors" and the points awarded for each, as used by the DWP for determining eligibility, you can look these up for free via this web page.

Best regards and good luck,

Paul.

[odds]

Hi odds,

when you send off the IB50 it goes to the DWP (as indicated by the address on the free postage envelope supplied with the form). A DWP "Decision Maker" will check the form, and based on what you have written therein.

Paul.

 

I'm afraid that's incorrect, as I said it clearly states that the IB50 goes to ATOS, any other Medical Certificates or documents are sent to the office dealing with your claim(renewal) for IB (see letter below). The pre-paid envelope is to send the IB50 to ATOS. This is what is totally absurd about this system, two pieces of relevant information which actually when used together would make everything clear, going to two different offices. So who has the final say ? Is it the person that just sees a medical report with no application form, or is it the person who has the application form but no supporting documents, absolutely crazy. !!

 

[45002]

Sorry for going a bit off topic,i found this

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/atos-contact.pdf

 

it address of some ATOS office in England,the bit in red makes me laugh,its there own fault for putting this document on the internet.

 

Back to filling in IB50 this may be of some help http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/174246-help-needed-ib50-form.html

[loan_ranger]

Oh ****, sorry but things must have changed since my last one a couple of years ago. This is a worrying turn of events. My contempt for Atos has just reached a new high.

I think when my next IB50 or ESA50 comes I'll try to wangle it so that Atos have to come to my flat, that way I'll be able to record the whole fiasco with a web cam and microphone - given that they falsify their reports, omit crucial facts etc. I think we should all surreptitiously record these "exams" as evidence against these liars. Perhaps if s/he asks me if I'm able to make a cup of tea by myself, I shall reply that the maid does this. No doubt s/he will say something like, "are you taking the p***?", to which I shall reply, "that's rich coming from an Atos HCP, you started it!".

These medical mercenaries are paid more than Gordon Brown gets for being PM, he gets £4K/week whereas one Atos HCP said in the Daily Mail that many of his colleagues were making £5K/week.

Here's what they get paid:

 

MEDICAL TYPE AT CENTRE / HOME

 

DLA/AA £51.37 £77.33

DLA Fast track £51.37 £89.69

Incapacity benefit £35.16 £60.63

ESA (LCWRA/LCW) £40.31 £65.77

ESA (WFHRA) £26.37 £26.37

Industrial injuries £30.36 £55.82

 

"As you can see it costs £35.16 for an IB medical yet it costs £66.68 for both the medicals for ESA, this is a massive increase of 89%! The DWP refuses to say what it pays Atos for carrying out these medicals but you can bet your bottom dollar it is going to cost the taxpayer a damn sight more than that". No doubt the DWP are financing Atos out of the money they save by wrongly denying the sick and disabled (a soft target) their rightful benefits whilst pandering to the misinformed prejudices of those right-wing tabloid reading taxpayers whose votes nu-labour wish to take from the tories. In the 'credit crunch', bailing out the greedy bankers has already cost £850bn (by December 2009) and this is rising due to interest payments which alone are more than the total spend on benefits to the sick and disabled. But hey, let's blame the vulnerable sick and kick them while they're down, that way everyone will clean forget about the fact that better regulation of the banks by government could have dramatically reduced our exposure to the current financial crisis.

Best regards,

Paul.

Edited April 20, 2010 by loan_ranger

[Dragon2020]

Oh ****, sorry but things must have changed since my last one a couple of years ago. This is a worrying turn of events. My contempt for Atos has just reached a new high.

I think when my next IB50 or ESA50 comes I'll try to wangle it so that Atos have to come to my flat, that way I'll be able to record the whole fiasco with a web cam and microphone - given that they falsify their reports, omit crucial facts etc. I think we should all surreptitiously record these "exams" as evidence against these liars. Perhaps if s/he asks me if I'm able to make a cup of tea by myself, I shall reply that the maid does this. No doubt s/he will say something like, "are you taking the p***?", to which I shall reply, "that's rich coming from an Atos HCP, you started it!".

These medical mercenaries are paid more than Gordon Brown gets for being PM, he gets £4K/week whereas one Atos HCP said in the Daily Mail that many of his colleagues were making £5K/week.

Here's what they get paid:

 

MEDICAL TYPE AT CENTRE / HOME

 

DLA/AA £51.37 £77.33

DLA Fast track £51.37 £89.69

Incapacity benefit £35.16 £60.63

ESA (LCWRA/LCW) £40.31 £65.77

ESA (WFHRA) £26.37 £26.37

Industrial injuries £30.36 £55.82

 

"As you can see it costs £35.16 for an IB medical yet it costs £66.68 for both the medicals for ESA, this is a massive increase of 89%! The DWP refuses to say what it pays Atos for carrying out these medicals but you can bet your bottom dollar it is going to cost the taxpayer a damn sight more than that". No doubt the DWP are financing Atos out of the money they save by wrongly denying the sick and disabled (a soft target) their rightful benefits whilst pandering to the misinformed prejudices of those right-wing tabloid reading taxpayers whose votes nu-labour wish to take from the tories. In the 'credit crunch', bailing out the greedy bankers has already cost £850bn (by December 2009) and this is rising due to interest payments which alone are more than the total spend on benefits to the sick and disabled. But hey, let's blame the vulnerable sick and kick them while they're down, that way everyone will clean forget about the fact that better regulation of the banks by government could have dramatically reduced our exposure to the current financial crisis.

Best regards,

Paul.

 

 

If I remeber correctly but do not quote me on this a 30 minute medical from ATOS will cost £400 per person for the government.

[ErikaPNP]

All of your documents go to DWP for the decision on entitlement. Once ATOS get the IB50 from you, they then decide if you should have a medical. (ATOS took over this from DWP in 2008 ). If they decide you do need a medical, they hold on to the IB50 until the medical is done, then they then forward the IB50 and medical results on to DWP. If they decide you don't need a medical, they forward the IB50 on to DWP. It's DWP who make the final decision on entitlement to benefit.

[loan_ranger]

@ Dragon,

The total cost of these services from 1 March 2008 to February 2009 was £80,589,204. This figure not only covers the total number of examinations undertaken across all benefits, but also costs relating to written and verbal medical advice, fixed overheads, administrative costs, investment in new technology and other service improvements.

Seeing as the ESA exams didn't begin until October 2008, my best guess is that Atos could be making up to £130m/year from their sham medicals.

Edited April 20, 2010 by loan_ranger

[odds]

All of your documents go to DWP for the decision on entitlement.

 

Eventually, surely having all the documents together from the beginning would make the process a hell of a lot simpler.

 

Once ATOS get the IB50 from you, they then decide if you should have a medical. (ATOS took over this from DWP in 2008 ). If they decide you do need a medical, they hold on to the IB50 until the medical is done, then they then forward the IB50 and medical results on to DWP.

 

So the decision is taken by ATOS initially without them having seen any medical certificates or documentation to substantiate your claim, as you are told NOT to send them anything.

 

If they decide you don't need a medical, they forward the IB50 on to DWP.

 

Where your IB50 is reunited with the rest of your medical documentation that you sent at the same time, just to a different office, regarding your application.

 

It's DWP who make the final decision on entitlement to benefit.

 

Is it though, if ATOS decide you need a medical, and seem to think you are fit for work and advise DWP of this, what do the DWP then do with the documentation you sent them ? Is it just disregarded, or do they go against what ATOS have said if they think they are wrong ?

This is why the whole system is a complete shambles, how on earth can anyone make a decision without actually seeing both sets of information.

Sorry for going on about this, but I'm just finding it hard to comprehend how a system can be so badly organised.

 

Cheers.

[loan_ranger]

Is it though, if ATOS decide you need a medical, and seem to think you are fit for work and advise DWP of this, what do the DWP then do with the documentation you sent them ? Is it just disregarded, or do they go against what ATOS have said if they think they are wrong ?

This is why the whole system is a complete shambles, how on earth can anyone make a decision without actually seeing both sets of information.

Sorry for going on about this, but I'm just finding it hard to comprehend how a system can be so badly organised.

Precisely! This would explain why Atos are making people who are on their death beds attend these sham medicals. Pocketing a large chunk of tax dollars or, allowing a dying man with in-operable cancer and severe side-effects from his medication be excused the medical - tough call (I don't think so)!

I've recently been reading about such a case and it looks like the author intends to sue.

 

"tort of negligence is a wrongful act against an individual. Liability can be based on a breach of statutory duty. The motive of the defendant is generally irrelevant.

There is statutory and case law that suggests that DWP, and through them Atos Healthcare, has a duty of care to patients subject to the actions defined by the Welfare Reform Act 2007."

 

 

His website is well worth looking at and contains many useful links.

 

 

Regards, Paul.