All sounds a bit fishy! Please Help

[ct123]

Hi Everyone

 

I am asking for some advice on behalf of my partner, please bear with me as this may be a long post!

 

My partner has worked at a large University for 18 months in the finance department as a Purchase Ledger Manager.

 

Since February he has been part of an Independent Investigation for "putting the University into disrepute". In November last year he made an error with payments hence the reason for the Investigation. In the 18 months he has worked there he has made three mistakes one being the above. When the mistakes occurred he was never reprimanded or given any training. The Independent Investigator found that there has been issues but concluded that this was lack of support and training from management.

 

Human Resources have decided that they don't agree with the conclusion from the Investigation and have decided to have a hearing. In this hearing last week they concluded that it would be a final warning short of dismissal. They decided that they would offer my partner redeployment within the university on one grade lower and this could take up to 6 months and during this time my partner would stay at home on full pay (nothing received in writing). The following day he received a phone call from HR to say that this has possibly changed and that they have got to find him another job in finance in a different faculty and there would be no time limit it may take longer than 6 months. My partner was happy with either of the above decisions.

 

He has now received another phonecall saying that they want him to appeal and he has to compose a letter which he has no idea of doing (so any help greatly received).

 

It all sounds very odd to me that a major University can do things like this, I am afraid that in the long run they will just change their mind and dismiss him. My partner is quite calm about appealing he says that they are unable to dismiss him as in the hearing they chose to give him a final warning however he has nothing in writing to confirm this. We have tried on numerous attempts to contact ACAS but just seem to be holding.

 

Any advice would greatfully be received.

 

Thanks for Reading

Cass

[scousegeezer]

ct123,

IMHO, although it may appear appealing to take the route of appealing the decision of a "Final written warning"; on the basis of the original investigators decision of no action. In reality it would be folly. My thoughts are that the employer wishes you OH to make the appeal so that they can vary the disciplinary decision of final written warning to that of dismissal. This is allowed under employment law. The person dealing with the appeal can vary the decision on the basis of gross misconduct, if that is the decision he/she comes to. Which I am sure will be their decision. Does your OH have the final written warning decision in writing. If so, I would advise writing to the employer with a copy of that letter and advise them that he does not wish to appeal. I would also recommend that he advises them in the letter that any further communication regarding this matter, including them telling him of where and when he will be transferred ; should be in writing. I would also recommend getting a truecall recorder for your phone calls, just in case they do not heed the request. I am not too sure on the next point, but wait til someone else comes along to agree or disagree with me. The next point being, in my opinion he has been punished twice for this discilinary matter - the final written warning and also being transferred to a different department, on a lower payscale. Which makes life difficult, a little. Due to the fact that the only way to rectify the "double jeopardy" would be to appeal. BUT as I say, wait til someone else comes along with some furthr advice.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer.

[electron99]

It looks like the HR department are learning as they go along. First thing is to insist that all communications are in writing.

[mickp25]

Hi this is the OH, thanks for replying all

 

I have received a letter today telling me that I have a right to appeal against the action short of dismissal and the final written warning I have been given.

 

HR did telephone me and say that I will be redeployed to another part of the firm when there is a job available, while this is going on I will still be paid. This has now changed and they have now said that they do not know how long it will take to find me a position and I might only get paid for so many months and then if they have not found me a position they can dismiss me.

 

Is this right even though I have not been dismissed and only been given a final written warning? Also I have been told from HR (but nothing in writing) that if I do appeal I will go back to the position that I am in now, suspended leave

If I do appeal and lose then it sounds like they can change their minds and dismiss me even though I have a letter confirming the final warning and demotion? If I don’t appeal what will happen, will the final warning stand and can they dismiss me after a few months if they do not find me a position? Also what happens if I want to take this to a tribunal and I have not appealed, can I still do this?

 

Sorry for all the questions but I am in a bit of a mess with this!

Edited April 15, 2010 by mickp25

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

a) has the investigation been carried out fairly, thoroughly, and has it brought all the elements of the misconduct to light?

 

b) do you have the minutes and documents related to the investigation?

 

c) why do they want your OH to appeal their decision? (this is his/her decision to make... not theirs)

 

d) if s/he goes to appeal, and they vary the award, this only can be achieved if new substential evidence has come to light... However they cannot vary the award upwards if there is no new evidence...

[mariefab]

If the employer wanted to reduce the final warning and demotion to a lesser penalty they would just do it whenever they liked.

They don't need you to appeal to achieve this. It's not as if you'd be likely to complain that you should have been consulted first.

 

If they wanted the penalty to stay the same as it is now why on earth would they to want you to appeal.

 

If they wanted to dismiss you they would need you to appeal.

They had already given you their decision verbally (and now in writing). So, the only way that they can increase the penalty now is dig around and find something to use as new evidence and get you to appeal.

 

As things stand now the disciplinary process is done and dusted and they're paying you to stay off work until they re-deploy you.

If they can't find a suitable role for you and after some time they decide that they would like to terminate your employment they'll need to start a whole new process to do so.

[ct123]

Hi Everyone

 

Thanks for all your replies. We finally got through to ACAS and they said that if he appeals they can change their mind and dismiss him, it isn't best business practice however they are in their rights to do so. He has decided not to appeal and take the final warning and offer of redeployment. However again today he received a call from HR making out it would be a good decision to appeal he hasn't let them know yet he has 5 days. The only reason why they are urging him to appeal is so they can dismiss him after the whole independant investigation and everything else I can not understand why they would change their mind and give him his position back they wouldn't have gone to all this trouble in the first place if they were going to do that!

He has also asked for all the minutes and all other documentation that has his name on it and he has to pay £10.00 as it's part of data protection??!

 

So we are in limbo at the moment hoping that the redeployment stands if not he is going to get legal advice

 

Thanks again