Seeking advice on old debts when i have a clear credit report.

[the_blue_cat]

I originally posted this in the bankruptcy section as i didn't see this section previously.

 

 

 

Hi. My day yesterday was spoiled by a letter turning up on my doorstep from a solicitors wanting £29k from me or else they proceed with going to court.

 

Now the background is, i built up some debt several years ago with cards and the such like. I got to a point where i entered into an IVA 5 years ago with Debit Free Direct which was the biggest mistake ever. it was all going well until i moved house which meant my outgoings had changed. Needless to say after much messing about by DFD they dropped me as i couldn't make the payments they were asking for. After that i've heard nothing since (thats four years) until the letter yesterday. It seems the creditors finally want some money back. From the looks of the letter i was sent it seems that all the debt was bought by a company called Max recovery Ltd and they're the ones that have got in touch with the solicitors.

 

Now i have no assets at all, i rent a place with my girlfriend and she has a car (a ten year old little fiesta). We're both employed and are getting by with what we've got.

 

Hmmm this gets interesting.

 

I contacted the CCCS for advise as i guess i'm heading towards bankruptcy. They asked me to get a credit report from experian to verify who the creditors are (it was so long ago i really can't remember). So i do this and am quite surprised that i there's nothing on my credit report saying that i am in debt to anyone. It lists all my address for the last 9 years so it does locate me. I contacted CCCS again and they recomended doing the same with both Callcredit check and equifax and if none of them come up with anything, then to send a letter to the solisitors in question stating that due to the act 1980 section 5 the debts are no longer legally enforcable.

 

SO the callcredit check report is all clear and the Equifax one can't find me so i've had to send them proof that i exist.

 

Ok i just spoke to the national debt line. They have advised me to send a letter to the solicitors a Right of Subject access request. This is requesting all information that they have on me but not admitting any liability of any debts. It seems that they need to prove that indeed i do have a debt as so far there is nothing to say that i have.

 

Does anyone have any kind of letter format that i can use to do this? What does everyone think of this? I think it basically puts the onus on them to prove that i do indeed owe any money to anyone.

 

But it's also nice to know that balifs can't come round as there are no court orders and any debt collects that do come round have no powers at all! *phew*

 

 

All replies and advice most welcome on this.

[patrickq1]

Debt Sale Perspectives, the debt sale facilitation and consultancy arm of Eversheds, is to form an alliance with Callcredit, to promote its 'CallADEPT' service - the first dedicated independent bureau solution for debt buyers and sellers.

CallADEPT will enable sellers to segment and profile portfolios, and allow buyers to establish the true value of portfolios, with a degree of accuracy previously unavailable.

The launch of the new product has been warmly welcomed by Peter Wordsworth, head of Eversheds' Debt Sale Perspectives, who commented: "Callcredit's move takes the UK debt sale market to another level. In order to maintain the level of the prices that sellers were …

[patrickq1]

According to the Information Commisoner Max Recoveries Ltd Data Control is at:

 

20-22 BEDFORD ROW

LONDON

WC1R 4JS

 

However, if it is Max Recoveries Inc, then the Data Control is:

 

PETER WORDSWORTH

EVERSHEDS LLP

FAIRFAX HOUSE

MERRION STREET

LEEDS

LS2 8HE

 

you need to send a CCA registered along with a 31.00 payment but i would hang fire before you do anything yet i will re read your post again and give you some pointers...this company is famous for buying bankrupt debts and not a savoury bunch..i will post you the directors e mail address in case it eventually becomes neccessary to put him in his place lol...notice you will find this in the help section at bottom of my thread and welcome to CAG

i will read your post again and then go through some points for you

patrickq1

[dx100uk]

if there is nothing showing on any CRA files then its more than 6yrs and is statute barred.

there is stuff all they can do to you

 

totally ignore them.

 

 

dx

[patrickq1]

Rather than chase the debts they seem to buy them for next to nothing and gamble that some of them will see a return from the insolvency.

 

When they buy a debt they will often write to you stating that they have, but that you are unlikely to hear from them again.

 

When it comes to making sure the entries on your Credit Reference Files are correct, I have heard that a lot of people find them one of the most helpful firms when it comes to setting things straight

this was a post i just picked up on and was written on a forum but belonged to a DCA who works for MAX so dont beleive they can help they are insolvancey specialists but their design is to skin you alive....and bleed every last penny from you...do not phone them under any circumstances letters only when it becomes neccessary...as i see it you also have a dispute about to begin with the IVA people as they have all your data records and who has been paid what and when so you need to gather all this,their will also be questions to ask concering legal entitlement to collecting any debts such as assignments etc i will explain this as we go on

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

if they check their credit files it will ring bells with CALLCREDIT as they have a deal like wescot with experian... so i would nt call yet until we look at everything ,but you could be right it could be statute barred unless their are any ccj's against any of the debt s

patrickq1

[dx100uk]

yes good point

though as the OP mentions an IVA, it is probable none ever got that far .

 

someone phishing for a mug me thinks..........

 

 

dx

[the_blue_cat]

this is the strange thing, as both my Experian and callcredit credit checks over the last two days have revealed no outstanding debts or CCJ's. In fact a rather good credit score.

 

SO what do i do about this?

[dx100uk]

tbh if they had a ccj im sure someone would have used it by now

and even if they have its past 6yrs anyhow and it will need to go to court again to enforce it.

 

i'd totally ignore the situation

 

dx

[the_blue_cat]

All the advice i've had from CAB, national Debt heline and CCCS all indicate that i need to reply to this letter. I know that it hasn't been six years but they do need to prove it. I was thinking of sending the below:

 

Dear Sir/madam

In regards to your letter dated 22 march 2010, requesting payments be made on an outstanding debt of £29,406.85.

As my credit records are completely clear of any outstanding debts, please provide the original credit agreements signed by myself and including the full payment histories also including dates of last payments made, to prove that a debt exists.

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384

. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Hopefully this will tell them that i'm not going to be a push over and just randomly pay up anything, and that they will have to provide proof if they want anything. Even then they're going to have to take me to court as i have no assets and it will probably be bankruptcy for me. Which i don't mind as it get rid of it all quickly so i can get on with my life. But needless to say if i don't have to pay i most certainly will not. Hopefully it will be too much bother for them to chase up (but i strangely doubt it).

[dx100uk]

well i think you are giving then too much creedence

they would have brought the debt for peanuts [5-15%]

if the oc wanted the money they would have asked years ago.

 

i bet they wrote it off and sold it in a phishing list

 

you could cca them if you really must do something

but i'd ignore them.

 

dx

[the_blue_cat]

Whats 'CCA'?

 

I if ignore them, then they will just send more letters and probably someone around. If they want money off me then they need to take me to court, so i think it's probably in my best interest to just send them something that they will need to provide a court anyway. But at least it tells them to not send anyone around (which you know they will do otherwise).

[dx100uk]

but thats what they do send threat-o- grams and people but they have

 

NO LEGAL POWERS

 

you or i or the milkman can do it too

 

if you want to be fleeced, go ahead and pay

 

you are under NO legal obligation to do so.

 

CCA is consumer credit agreement...that thing you signed when you took the'loan' out

 

the oc have cleared it for their books , you owe then NOTHING!

 

these leeches are just firms that rely upon people thay dont know the consumer law.

 

dx

[the_blue_cat]

but thats what they do send threat-o- grams and people but they have

 

NO LEGAL POWERS

 

you or i or the milkman can do it too

 

if you want to be fleeced, go ahead and pay

 

you are under NO legal obligation to do so.

 

CCA is consumer credit agreement...that thing you signed when you took the'loan' out

 

the oc have cleared it for their books , you owe then NOTHING!

 

these leeches are just firms that rely upon people thay dont know the consumer law.

 

dx

 

SO id this true, that if the original creditors have written it off and sold it off then i am no longer legally obliged to pay?

[dx100uk]

i've just looked at your first post again......

 

it's not 'a creditor' that is chasing you...its this co. that you think brought all yours debt when you entered their DMP scheme.

 

i very much doubt this is the case, and even if it were 'this co' would have to hold every credit agreement you ever had to chase you legally on the 'mass debt'....

 

yea ok pigs will fly too

 

they dont have a chance in hell!

 

oh and this 'solicitor' is probably the 'immitation' in house solicitor on the next desk, or more prob the sec just changed the letterhead in the printer!

 

it would be a really good laugh if you could post this letter up.

 

dx

[the_blue_cat]

Ok just read this in one of the stick posts

 

Establishing that they have a right of action to the debt.

If the original creditor is the claimant, they almost certainly have a right of action to the debt.

 

If the DCA is the company that is suing, then, they must fulfil certain technicalities:

• They must have sent you a notice of assignment.
  
• They must have a Document (or deed) of assignment.
  

A notice of assignment must be served upon you in order for a DCA to have a claim to the debt. This Notice of assignment must be absolute (that is they must have all the rights and duties of the contract) in order to sue in their own right.

 

If the notice of assignment is not absolute, you have every right to object if any case that does not include both the original creditor, and the DCA.

 

Further, if the notice of assignment is not correct, that is it includes unlawful charges or incorrect data, it spells your name, account number, address, or any other detail incorrectly, it is likely to be invalid.

 

Lastly, in your disclosure request, you have already asked for a copy of the document of assignment. I would suggest that, if a DCA were to fail to provide such a document, there would be no case to answer since they would have no clear right to the debt.

 

These are maybe technical points, but they are vital points – no notice of assignment = case struck out.

 

Ok so am i to understand that the original Creditors must have sent me individually a notice of assignment which specifys that the DCA is collecting on their behalf?

 

If this is indeed the case such documents do not exist, as i have not received any. Can anyone advise?

Edited March 28, 2010 by the_blue_cat

[dx100uk]

no only if the DCA has BROUGHT the debt from the OC do you need to get NOA and you also need notification from the OC that they are HAVE sold the debt.

 

and your other statement is incorrect too no NOA don't equal case struck out.

 

TBH: this has gone on long enough

i'm not sure blue if you are? panicing because 'it's a solicitors' letter and somehow this gives it added value to a phishing attempt - because it don't

 

what you have is a load of old bull

there is noway, even if you 'signed' up to this IVA that they [max recovery] would of gone around

all you creditor buying up all your debt.

they might have negotiated an agreement to pay, but thats it.

there is noway either they would have paid them off upfront

 

utter crap.

phishing trip designed to fleece you

 

dx

[the_blue_cat]

dx100uk I understand what your saying that it's a load of bull, however i would like some hard evidence to back it up.

 

Now post 5 on the following thread (which being a sticky thread i thought it would be somewhat acurate):

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

 

covers the whole NOA business, that if one wasn't issued to me then they can't legally pursue the debt. This is also cover in the follwoing thread by a site admin:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/190222-notice-assignment-default-notices.html

 

Using the same thing as a defence.

 

Now at no time did i recieve any such document. What has happened in my case is that after the IVA company dropped me as i couldn't make their outlandish payments (after my situation had changed), the OC's have written it off and just sold it on at a small percentage to Max Recovery (who as it happens makes they money by buying up bulk debt from everywhere and tries fleasing people). Hence my credit rating shows no arrears or debts to anyone.

 

Now since all the information seems to be important enough to be posted by site admins and left as sticky's, i'm lead to beleive that it could be useful, and that indeed this company has no legs to stand on demanding payments when the debts can't be legally enforced.

[dx100uk]

in a way two sep issues here

the NOA is a good way of getting a cjj set aside if it had gone to court, this case hasn't. and won't

 

why i'm saying this is bull is because i've never seem any evidence that 'a' dca specifically goes around creditors saying 'you have an outstanding debt with Mr anon, we would like to buy this debt from you' and does this to 5 diff creditors.

 

now unless ofcourse this is not the case and you are just talking about 'one' of the debts that was under DCD on the IVA.

 

dx

[BlurredFX]

Blue Cat,

 

I understand your concerns, these threat-o-grams can be quite disturbing. They are meant to be. Please try to see through what they say, and believe us when we tell you what they are. Just because they say it, it doesn't make it true.

 

Believe me, even when it comes to litigation, these people say is not always the truth - so at this stage of the game you have got no chance of them speaking sense to you.

 

utter crap.

phishing trip designed to fleece you

I would tend to agree with.

 

You'll know when it needs dealing with, because a claim form from a Court will will appear on your door mat.

 

In many respects, that is easier to deal with.

 

At this point, I think you have a few options:

 

1) Ignore them

2) SAR to get them to show all the documents they have on you.

3) Possibly a CCA1974 request, asking for copies of the credt agreements.

 

4) Take the complex, pro-active and still experimental (I think) approach, and go for a CPR31.16 approach, forcing them to show their hand before. PT has been on with this, and there have been successes.

 

For what it is worth, I would go with Option 1.

 

The only thing that I have not come across before is the fact that this lot stems from an unpaid IVA. You may have had a touch here you know...

 

FX:)

[BlurredFX]

You may have had a touch here you know...

 

Thinking on, and bearing in mind your good credit rating, I am increasingly of the persuasion that you should let sleeping dogs lay (or is it lie)? haha.

 

At least I would put it on the back burner, and see what they come up with next. That way you get a better idea. Post the letter up, I would, less identifiable details.

 

The threat-o-grams are designed to intimidate you. Don't let them.

 

I ignored a petition for my bankruptcy... ballsy, admittedly, not a cause of action I would normally recommend.

 

But at this stage, let them play their hand first.

[the_blue_cat]

What i don't want more than anything is people coming round. Yes they have no legal standing but it is annoying and it also may put my rental agreement as risk. I rent a seperate property on a farm where the landowners live. The last thing i want is debt collectors harrassing anyone here.

 

What i want to do is send this company a letter, specifically stating that the debt is disputed (although not admitting to any liability on it), that they are most definately not invited round for tea or they will be evicted from the premises by the police (there's a nice paragraph for that somewhere on here that i've seen), and that it is legally unenforceable and if they wish to pursue it they will have to take me to court where they will have to produce the original credit agreements (bearing in mind that the Barclaycard one must be almost 20 years old now) and also verify that i received and signed for the NOA's for each original creditor verfiying that the debts were taken over by them (which include exact details of the debts and dates, hence it gets sent to the debtor to verfiy and dispute if necessary).

 

I just need help with the letter.

[BlurredFX]

There is a letter in the library I think that you can send advising them not to come to your property. Something about only the postman and some one asking for directions are allowed.

 

Other than that, I wouldn't bother. Seriously, let them play there hand and keep us posted.

 

If they threaten Court action, then you could possibly look at CPR31.16 (i think) and ask for documents to be produced prior to proceedings, possibly after a SAR request, but you have to be very specific in what you ask for, and would be well above my competency or experience.

 

I understand your desire to put this to bed once and for all, but it isn't that simple, sadly. Your advising them that you will go to Court etc etc at this stage may well prick their ears up that you are getting advise, and they might even find this thread.

 

The risk, possibly, is that you would become "sport" for them. Someone to harass when they are bored, friday agernoon perhaps, even justifying it to the boss as some form of training / work experience!

 

If you have a lot of time on your hands, and you fancy a bit of "sport" then look around these forums more. I will see if I can find some links if you wish - just let me know.

[BlurredFX]

CPR31.16 is being used in secret commissions cases I was reading earlier, if taht is any use to ya as a clue.

 

PART 31 - DISCLOSURE AND INSPECTION OF DOCUMENTS - Ministry of Justice might be worth a look.

[the_blue_cat]

See thats why i need help with the letter. I'll be just asking them to prove the debt by providing all the specific neccessary information that we can pretty much guess that they don't have.

 

And since the issue will be in dispute, anyone coming out for a visit will be reported to OFT for harrassment.