Small claim against HCEO struck out - assistance please!

[ncf355]

Hi all,

 

as some are no doubt aware I started a claim against a HCEO in the Small Claims to claim unlawfully charged costs from them (amounts charged other than those allowed by HCEO regs)

 

The defended claiming Regulation 12, despite the fact the costs claimed were not allowed for in the Writ of Fieri Facias

 

I then applied for disclosure as they had refused to make the details available to me, and the judge assigned a hearing for this

 

Shortly after, they applied to strike out the claim, have it transferred before a senior costs judge and for me to pay the costs of that hearing

 

The judge has allowed this!

 

 

What can I do about this, if anything?

 

And what's the recommended next move?

[tomtubby]

Hi all,

 

as some are no doubt aware I started a claim against a HCEO in the Small Claims to claim unlawfully charged costs from them (amounts charged other than those allowed by HCEO regs)

 

The defended claiming Regulation 12, despite the fact the costs claimed were not allowed for in the Writ of Fieri Facias

 

I then applied for disclosure as they had refused to make the details available to me, and the judge assigned a hearing for this

 

Shortly after, they applied to strike out the claim, have it transferred before a senior costs judge and for me to pay the costs of that hearing

 

The judge has allowed this!

 

 

What can I do about this, if anything?

 

And what's the recommended next move?

 

 

Did the court grant costs against you?

[ncf355]

Did the court grant costs against you?

 

Hi, costs in their favour for the detailed costs hearing, not for the small claims

[ploddertom]

Did you claim specifics when you submitted your application or just general overcharging. Having had a read of your other posts I note you make reference to various letters you had but did you ever submit a SAR - this is probably the tool you need to find out when certain charges were applied, if you haven't done it as yet i would strongly suggest it is done as soon as - cost £10 and best paid by PO.

 

PT

[ohitsonlyme]

In order to understand fully what were the charges they applied to you?

 

Have you paid them or are you still in the process of fighting them off

Winning in the high court is relatively straight forward if you have all of your ducks lined up correctly, several of us will be able to help you and you can get all of your costs back including the hearing costs at the county court.

 

onlyme and many more

[ncf355]

Hi,

 

This was my POC:

 

The Claimant claims the return of unlawful charges made upon himself by a representative of the Defendant.

 

The Claimant states that the charges that are legally chargeable in the execution of the Defendants business (enforcement of High Court writs) are defined by law within Schedule 3 of Regulation 13 of The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004 (copied at annex A) and do not make allowance for the level and type of charges made upon the Claimant.

The High Court writ was enforced in person by the Defendants representative during which time he issued documents detailing the amounts alleged to be owed and that should be paid if the Claimant was to avoid further enforcement action (documents are copied at annex B).

Claimant states that the maximum amounts chargeable by the Defendants representative were:

a) Cost of execution at £50

b) £2 for seizure of goods

c) 2.5% of the original county court debt (2.5% of £1150.39) = £28.76

d) Mileage at 29.2p/mile, with a maximum of £50

e) A sum of £2 for any expenses reasonably incurred by way of telephone calls, postage, etc

The above amounts are justified via the details shown in Annex A

 

Therefore, given that the total sum of the above can only be a maximum of £132.76, and then allowing VAT of 15% on the services (giving a VAT amount of £19.91) and interest incurred of £6.31 gives a total chargeable by the Defendants representative of £158.98 plus the original judgment amount of £1150 giving £1308.98.

 

This means the amount charged on the date of 30th June 2009 exceeded the legally allowed sum by £807.57 and it is this amount the Claimant seeks the return of.

[ncf355]

I have not sent a SAR, as detailed I did send a CPR disclosure request that they refused stating it was not reasonable

[ncf355]

In order to understand fully what were the charges they applied to you?

 

Have you paid them or are you still in the process of fighting them off

Winning in the high court is relatively straight forward if you have all of your ducks lined up correctly, several of us will be able to help you and you can get all of your costs back including the hearing costs at the county court.

 

onlyme and many more

 

As the judge at County Court has ruled they can have costs for the assessment hearing, how would I be able to claim these back?

 

I also dont get how he can rule that when the whole point of asking for the costs hearing is to judge whether their costs are fair??!!

[ncf355]

[ohitsonlyme]

What exactly did the CC judgement say?

The way I read from what you have already written is that you have to pay for the cost of the hearing not the Defendants costs

Send off your SAR as soon as possible as this will reveal all of the anomalies in their cahrging structure

Do not apply to the high court until you recieve the sar back

 

This is one of the ducks that needs to be in the right order!!

and it is cheaper to get this than applying to the HC

I read your earlier thread and from what you say there is a good argument to show the fees were too high

 

onlyme

[kiptower]

£120 an hour waiting time , so they earn £960 a day what planet are they on for an 8 hour day

[ploddertom]

I have not sent a SAR, as detailed I did send a CPR disclosure request that they refused stating it was not reasonable

 

The SAR should reveal a lot of information that you do not at present have. The downside to it is that they will probably spin it out for the 40 days before complying, you can be sure at this stage they will use all and any delaying tactic - a favourite one with SAR is to ask specifically which info you need, this is why you ask for any and all and in any form - if they then write back and say that it isn't reasonable then that is their problem and not yours. Here's an example below:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Date

 

Dear Sir

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir

 

 

Please supply a complete list of the data held and used by you that relate to Mr XXXX. It is also to include third party information held with all other agencies.

 

Additionally where there has been an event in the account(s) history during the period accounts have been placed with you that have required any manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have been caused or resulted from that manual intervention.

 

I would like to bring to your attention data can be held in written information, e-mails, electronic documents, photographs, CCTV images, telephone conversations and include any recorded or written opinions about me/us and any recorded or written intentions and action taken regarding me/us.

 

I/We would like this information to be sent to my/our home address as listed above. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

To satisfy payment to supply this information I/we enclose a fee of £10 this payment must not be used for any other purpose.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

A Peeved Debtor"

 

The reason most SAR's are delayed is because the applicant fails to enclose the £10 fee!

 

Going on to the docs I have seen in your other thread there are a couple of points I would like to make a note of:

 

For mileage they have charged you £50 - this is the maximum allowed under the Regulations and at 29.2p per mile that works out at a return trip of in excess of 170 miles - I assume you therefore live in the middle of Dartmoor or Brecon Beacons. Can they justify this?

 

On the Notice of Seizure they state "All goods to satisfy the debt" - or vry similar - sorry not allowed any goods seized must be noted.

 

PT

[ohitsonlyme]

SHerrifs....

......

.....

 

 

 

Your reference number

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

 

Kindly provide full and complete copies of any and all data you hold which relates to me and my entire history with your company. I have enclosed the statutory maximum of £10.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, take note that the enclosed cheque is payment for the fee relating to my Subject access request only and not a payment of any other kind or to be used for any other purpose. If you do not require a fee in order to process my Subject access request then kindly return my cheque.

 

For your convenience I have detailed below a list of what I require, although this is not an exhaustive list by any means and is just an example of some of the information I require with regard to any accounts I may have had or may still have with your company.

 

• 1. Computer screen notes relating to the conduct of my account
  
• 2. Computer screen notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
  
• 3. Internal messages or notes relating to the conduct of my account
  
• 4. Internal messages or notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
  
• 5. Recordings of any telephone conversations, whether internal or external, relating to my account
  
• 6. Copies of any e-mail's, or other electronic communications, whether internal or external, relating my account
  
• 7. Copies of letters relating to my account
  
• 8. All information relating to litigation that has taken place on my account
  
• 9. A detailed statement of account showing a breakdown of all costs charged, showing in each case the reason for the cost and the actual cost against that item
  
• 10. Copies of all reviews conducted relating to my account
  
• 11. For any cost which relates to an attendance fee, kindly state the date and precise time of the attendance and the name of the certificated bailiff making each attendance with the name of the county court where the relevant bailiff obtained his or her certificate
  
• 12. Copies of all relevant paperwork created as a result of any and all visits ever made to me along with details of the results of each visit
  
• 13. Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property after each visit was made including details of the date and precise time of the visit and the charges incurred; this must include the name of the bailiffs who attended
  

I trust that the above is clear and should you be in any doubt as to your obligations as a Data Controller, then I would advise that you consult your corporate counsel.

 

As detailed above, I have enclosed the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you visited me.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

THis is the SAR I tend to use and it may be useful to amalgamate this with the one from PT

 

onlyme

[ncf355]

Cheers folks

 

SAR going off Monday!

[ncf355]

Oh - does the action being against my Ltd Co affect the SAR?

[ncf355]

 

Going on to the docs I have seen in your other thread there are a couple of points I would like to make a note of:

 

For mileage they have charged you £50 - this is the maximum allowed under the Regulations and at 29.2p per mile that works out at a return trip of in excess of 170 miles - I assume you therefore live in the middle of Dartmoor or Brecon Beacons. Can they justify this?

 

On the Notice of Seizure they state "All goods to satisfy the debt" - or vry similar - sorry not allowed any goods seized must be noted.

 

PT

 

I think the mileage may be justified - their head office to my location would result in a round trip in excess of 170 miles

 

However, I will be asking for proof of the acting officers address, as he if he lives more locally to me I somehow doubt he travels back to base each time?

 

Notice of seizure - I thought this might be the case and had already noted this to bring to the judges attention

[ploddertom]

I think the mileage may be justified - their head office to my location would result in a round trip in excess of 170 miles

 

However, I will be asking for proof of the acting officers address, as he if he lives more locally to me I somehow doubt he travels back to base each time?

 

Notice of seizure - I thought this might be the case and had already noted this to bring to the judges attention

 

If you look at the HCEO Directory you will indeed notice that some Companies operate in just about every Postcode Area. To do this they need local "Agents" as it would be impractical for a Writ to be served in Manchester from a Company in Brighton. I doubt whethet they will confirm the adress of who they used though - but it should be brought up at any later Hearing.

 

PT

[ncf355]

Thanks PT!

 

Any comment on this though? -

 

Oh - does the action being against my Ltd Co affect the SAR?

[ploddertom]

Oh - does the action being against my Ltd Co affect the SAR?

 

A SAR only applies to an individual and this is how you were targeted by the HCEO and coerced into paying. The information you receive can still be used by you in your Ltd Co action as you are one of the Directors.

 

Incidentally were any other members of the Co targeted. Were any personal guarantees offered by yourself or others in regards of any debts that may have arisen - some Companies offering credit accounts sometimes ask for these but hide it in the small print.

 

PT

[ncf355]

No one else targeted, not aware of a personal guarantee but will check