NoLolly needs help with Littlewoods Group - 4 catalogues in arrears

[nololly]

Hi, Ive come on here because Im completely lost and havent a clue what to do next. I have four catalogue accounts.

 

1) Littlewoods - Balance £1729

2) Kays - Balance £682

3) Very (used to be Littlewoods direct) - Balance £1365

4) Additions Direct - Balance £565

 

I am behind on all of them, however, deal with a company called NDR on the first three above. Im struggling to keep paying the fourth one at the moment, ie. Additions direct, but its crippling me.

 

I lost my job in November 2009 and whilst my husband earns a reasonable salary, his is currently taken up with keeping the mortgage paid, household bills and utilities and food shopping. Im trying desperately to get a new job but dont qualify for job seekers allowance because I was employed on a self employed basis for the small local company I used to work for. I basically bring in nothing at the moment, so my husband has been struggling to pay my catalogues off for me, but its go the stage now where we are almost three months behind with each. I had a company called NDR call me up last month and basically were so so so horrible and nasty to me they made me promise to make payments on each catalogue that I simply could not afford. I told them this. I was crying and basically said, you are making me commit to something that I cannot afford. She said, "what choice do you have love ?". I agreed knowing full well, and after stating so, that I couldnt promise to keep up these payments to them at the moment until I found a new job. Over the last year or so they have put horrendous charges on my account every month for being late with the payments or for missing a payment, in some cases they charged me £24 i.e. two charges of £12 a month on each catalogue on top of the interest, which has only served to push me further and further into debt with them. They harass me with about 15 phone calls a day to my phone at the moment. I dare not answer the phone. I just let the answer phone pick up the messages. I feel trapped in my own home. Im sure its got the stage now where my credit file will be affected hugely by this, so I suppose the situation with trying to save my credit rating is now a lost cause. I do however, acknowledge these debts. I know they are mine. Im not trying to dodge them in any way, but I just cannot afford to pay them at the moment. I could probably afford £10 on each one, but they flatly refused to take them. But if I could get all the charges back on each account they have added massive charges onto, the debts would each probably be reduced by about a third. The charges on each this last year have been utterly horrendous. I dont know what to do next. Can anybody help me on where I stand in all this. I dont want any CCJ's, I can handle the default situation, but not a CCJ, but I do want to pay them something every month to reduce the debt. They are just refusing to help me in any way an wont refund any of the late/letter/admin/penalty fees. Please help. Tell me what I need to do next. Somebody, anybody. I can look after myself if Im just pointed in the right direction of what to do next please. Has anybody been in a similar situation ??

 

Thanks

N:mad:

[lee32uk]

Hi nololly

 

First of all NEVER speak to these people over the phone EVER. They will lie and cheat, and bully you into paying more than you can afford.

 

Secondly you need to send them a telephone harrasment letter basically telling them to stop all calls and communicate in writing (Link below).

 

Harassment by telephone - Consumer Wiki

 

If I were you, I would only pay them what you can realistically afford. Do not let them bully you into paying more. If they ring you up just refuse to go through any security checks, and tell them to put it in writing.

 

Don't worry about a CCJ either as that is a very long way down the line. They would have to take you to Court first to obtain one, and no Judge in His or Her right mind would issue one anyway. The Judge would only make you pay what you could afford to pay and they can't do a thing about it.

Only if you refused to pay after going to Court would you risk a CCJ.

 

You could also write to the catalogue company and ask if they will freeze all charges until you get back on your feet. You never know they might agree.

 

P.S I owe HSBC about £10K on a credit card. I haven't paid a penny since January 2009 due to me challenging the credit agreement. I also lost my job a few months later so i couldn't pay anyway. I have yet to see the inside of a Courtroom ;-)

 

good luck

[Conniff]

Just to reiterate from above - They will lie and cheat, and bully you into paying more than you can afford. That is their job and if they succeed, then they are doing their job well.

 

So, as advised, do not speak to anyone on the phone any more and refuse to respond to them other than to say 'put it in writing', and then put the phone down.

 

Firstly make yourself a budget sheet starting with the high priority outgoings like council tax and rent/mortgage. Put down every penny you have to pay out on a regular basis except any of the clubs.

Take this amount away from your income to find out exactly what disposable income you have left.

 

Knock £25 off the disposable amount (for unforseen / emergency use), and then divide the remainder amongst the clubs.

Write using recorded delivery 'telling' them the amount you can afford and pay that amount with the letter and then keep to that amount every week/month (however you pay).

 

Don't let yourself be bullied, you take charge, but the most important thing is NO MORE TALKING ON THE PHONE.

[nololly]

Thank you so so so much. I dont feel quite so alone and isolated in all this now. I will send letters to each and tell them what I can afford and when and I will stick the arrangement, and if something comes up in any month that means that I cant pay that month i.e. a leaky roof or something that needs funds throwing at it, then I will keep them informed at all times. I didnt know that I could dictate the terms of what I pay. I did tell them before that I couldnt pay £70 and £80 a month on each, which is what the minimum is that they said they could take, but still they made me promise to pay it. I only managed one month at that and then it went rapidly downhill. I fully intend to pay my debts back, but I need to be able to pay them at a rate I can afford. Last month I had to cut back on the food shopping just to get by, we lived on pasta for a whole week, whilst I admit is no great hardship, it is at least food, but Im just insensed at how they keep adding charges every month. £12 here, £24 there on each account. Is there anything I can do to make them apply all the charges they have made on each of my accounts, back to the account, to reduce the debt on each. I seriously must have been charged over £200 in late payments/admin fees in the last six months on each account, which has just pushed me more and more into debt with these companies. I will send the letter about no more phone calls, but is there anything I can send them to make them give me back all the charges (not interest-I appreciate they charge interest on each of these accounts), but the charges. ??? Thank you so much everybody for the help. I truly appreciate it.

[Conniff]

Yes you can dictate as they know that if they take you to court and you show the judge your expenses form, he can say £5 per month and they don't want that.

 

Also by keeping up the payments you can afford, if it should go to court, the judge looks on that very favourably which is why you must never budget payments you know you might default on.

[nololly]

Thank you. I will keep the repayment level real and manageable and not slip up on them again. But can I do anything about the extra penalty charges on each account, i.e. late payment charge, missed payment charge, admin fee for phone call, admin fee for sending me a letter and so on. Can I make them give me those back and apply them to the account to credit them to reduce each debt ?

[Conniff]

Yes you can apply for a refund of them. Adapt and use the bank refund template letters.

[nololly]

Thank you. I will try then. I can jiggle something together from the template for the banking one Im sure. I will send it today. That in effect nearly half clears off my smallest account with them. On the smallest account they have charged £240 in late charges etc, and the balance was only £650 to start with. Nearly a third of the whole account. How crazy is that. And how wrong too. I will start that process too and see how I get on. thank you. I will update this thread as and when I get replies.

[nololly]

I was just wondering where I stand on a couple of things. When the two biggest accounts, i.e. Kays and Littlewoods got behind for 3 months, I started getting charges/letters/calls from NDR (I know, Littlewoods in house DCA), and they made me transfer my catalogue agreements into some kind of loans that interest was immediately applied to. I told them I didnt want to do this, but they said I had no choice because otherwise the debts would be put forward for court action. I was a little feeble on the phone and said, well if I have no choice, then I have no choice, and as a result they sent out two new lots of paperwork on the two accounts, i.e. Littlewoods and Kays only (not the other two) and told me to sign and send back in January 2010. I have had all these accounts since about March or April 2007 or 2006 ish I think. I did sign these two net lots of documents they sent me and I posted them back by regular post, now I realise this may not have been a good idea, after reading through lots of posts and threads on CAG. I realise that in effect they may have tied me up to new agreements with CCA's. Im not bothered, Im quite happy to pay the debts back, but only at a rate I can afford. But with regard to the other two that they havent transferred into loans, is it worth me asking for CCA on those and if they cant provide them, just shove the accounts into dispute and not pay them ever. I would feel bad doing this, but on account of the way they have treated me and are continuing to do so, when I have clearly made payment offers which they have refused, seems to me to be a case of me acting fairly and justly all the time and them not. What is the best thing to do (anybody )??? In the meantime, Im pursuing all my admin charges back, on all 4 accounts, even the 2 that were made into loans. Can I do that ?

[Conniff]

In reply to a post you did on another thread:

 

They ring from 7 in a morning until 11 at night. Its just so so tiring.

 

This is why you must take charge of things and not let them bully you. Every time they ring, just say "only in writing" and put the phone down..

 

I would be a good idea to send them a request for signed copies of your agreements, this will cost £1 per request, or a sar which will give you everything they have about you but will cost £10 per request.

 

The cca request is the best idea for a dca.

[nololly]

I know youre right. I am a strong person, but it is getting me down I have to admit. I will also CCA them too then. For a quid its the least I can do to help stop this sorry sorry tiring situation. I just need to know that they cant suddenly send in bailiffs or anything to come and take away stuff in my house. This cant happen can it because thats what the lady at NDR said last time. ? I didnt they they could do that ? I just want reassurance and want to be sure they cant. But I will CCA them too on Monday. I dont think they can have CCA's on my Additions Direct and Very accounts surely. They may have on the two most recent which have now effectively been turned into loans, seeing as I remember I only signed those in January this year and returned them (unless they got lost in the post), all my other correspondence to them seems to, according to them (not), but Im sure they wont have signed agreements on the other two. I feel bad though. Debt dodging isnt why Im doing this. Just fairness is.

[Conniff]

It's not about debt dodging, it's about reality. I observed a court case many years ago where a claim was put in against something and it was upheld, but when it came to payments, the judge asked the defendent a lot of questions about their life and income and he set a level that was affordable without the risk of default and gave the defendant quite a bit of extra cash in their pocket, he said that payments must be realistic and set the payments at £15 per month even thought the defendant said he could afford almost £100.

 

This is why they don't want to go to court, they know the judge also has a life and knows the cost of living and that unexpected things can happen that cost.

 

If you ever get some time on your hands, take a wander down to your local court and sit in on some things, it's very enlightening.

[nololly]

Oh right. Wow. I never knew. !! I suppose its my own fault for being a bit irresponsible/renegade with money when the times were good, and never thinking I would lose my very reliable place at work, and I have learned from it, in that I wont do it again, I do acknowledge my stupidity, but I just want to be able to repay it without it crippling me. And I do want all those unfair charges back. I cant believe companies can do that to people and get away with it. If its not entirely legal, I just dont know how they continually do it to people who have no idea they can challenge it. Its just plain wrong. Nothing else can describe it. Just plain wrong.

[nololly]

I have sent letter requesting CCA with one pound on each account today. I have also managed to calculate by back tracking through statements on each account online today, the total amount of charges on each account, I also requested these back in the same letter. Shall keep updating this thread with what happens next. thank you all.

[jungle vip]

Ohh by the way nololly, forgot to mention on my reply to you on my thread, The process takes approx 9 month for them to give up on you chasing money, If you continue to make any sort of payment to them in that period then the 9 month starts a fresh, So send them nothing...

 

 

Sorry, i have mis read your thread, Are you just wanting to claim the charges back or are you stopping all payments due to them having no signed credit agreement ???

[nololly]

Just received a response to my CCA request, on 2 of the four accounts:

1) Kays - Balance £694.05

2) Very - Balance £1424.62

 

Each letter is identical and received from Shop Direct Finance Company in response my my request to see original executed agreements. Each letter says and I quote:

 

We refer to a recent request for a copy of your credit agreement. Unfortunately we are unable to locate a copy of an executed agreement for your account, but for your information we enclose a copy of the current agreement which applied to this typeof account. This version includes all contractual variations which have taken place. As the current outstanding balance on your account is XXXX Id also like to take this opportunity to remind you that payments must be made every 28 days in order to avoid a default charge and notice of default being sent to our Credit Reference Agencies. We regularly share information regarding the performance of your account with our Credit Reference Agencies, which is retained on your credit file for 6 years. If a third party is acting for you please pass a copy of this letter to your representative.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

M Warburton.

Admin Support Team

 

Help........ what does this mean. ! Ive also written to them saying I want all the charges back on the account, for the late payment charges and missed payment charges etc. on each. So far they havent responded to that request.

 

Any idea what my next step is on each of these accounts (2 of them) if they have no executed agreement on them ?

 

All comments much appreciated.

[Conniff]

It means the accounts are in dispute and you can stop paying. They are also saying, by the threats, that they wont be able to find the agreement so are making an attempt to frighten you into continuing with payments.

 

While the accounts are in dispute, you don't have to pay and they cannot add any interest or charges.

 

This could be a nice respite for you nololly and will give you a few extra bob to pay off any other outstanding bills. Don't forget council tax year is about to start and that's a priority debt.

 

If you need a deeper explanation I will gladly come back again.

[nololly]

So based on the responses I have had on two of these accounts, from what you are saying, I can send the letter, re: account in dispute, they havent met their obligations to furnish me with original copies, etc. and thus therefore I wont be paying anything on them in future until such originals can be found etc. ? Can I do that ?

 

Im astounded they dont have them to be honest, especially on the Kays one because I only very recently, i.e. December ish 2009 signed a new agreement with them because they converted the account from a catalogue account into a loan, because they harassed me from NDR and basically told me that was the only way forward. I signed the new agreement, because I didnt have a clue what I was getting into and sent it back. So it seems they have lost it ? When I send my Account in Dispute letters, so I address it to NDR who have been sending the threatening letters, or to Shop Direct Finance at their Chelmsford address ? Thank you for your help.

[ajpoolshark]

Just been glancing through your thread....One question is when where the original catalogue accounts taken out? Were they on-line applications?...If so, if opened after 2004 then no signed agreement is required for SD to enforce the CA (credit agreement)...If you can supply a bit more info, it would be helpful...Regarding the charges, its a real battle reclaiming from SD, they are real 'bar-stewards'....You'll get the 'we are looking into it' letter, then the 'get stuffed' letter....The options then will be to complain directly to the FOS, or take SD to court...I've taken the latter route, hopefully SD will cave in before it goes to court

[nololly]

All accounts were opened online, after 2004, I think around 2007 ish or maybe 2006 but certainly not before that. But all online only. So are the agreements then enforceable without me having signed them ?

[nololly]

Need advice now please:

 

1) As you know above, three of the catalogue accounts (2 opened prior to 2006) and 1 opened in March 2009 have all returned letters to me stating they cant locate copies of the original agreements. Thus I have issued letters stating account in dispute, blah blah blah.

 

2) However, the fact that one of the accounts was opened in March 2009, does this bear any significant different in rights etc. to the other two, i.e. can I tell them to get lost on this one too, or are there different rules that apply to one opened as late as March 2009. On this one, the charges they have applied to the account are more than the actual remaining balance on the account. I have told them I want the charges back, blah blah blah, but all they have sent me back is a letter saying my complaint is being looked into.

 

3) One of my other accounts (Littlewoods) have managed to find a signed copy of my agreement,(albeit outside the time scale they had to provide one in), I just received it this morning with copy CCA, clearly signed by me, so I am left with having to pay this one. I have no choice, but can I still insist they take payment at the rate of £10 per month at the moment, because this is all I can afford, and do they have to stop applying interest to the account, because its still in dispute because they owe me around £200 back in charges they have put on the account. Not sure where I stand on this one that they have been able to produce a true copy of the CCA on. Any help on this and the one above would be much appreciated. Just need to know what do next please.

Thank you.

[ravenbluemoon]

OK - here's my thoughts.......

 

- Not sure about (1), it's not my "thing".

 

- As far as your point (2) goes, if you've sent them a request for the charges to be refunded, then send them a "Letter Before Action" - giving them 14 to pay them back. If no joy by then (give them a couple of days grace), then start a claim against them.

 

I've managed to get charges back from several catalogues, including Kays (Shop Direct), if you pester them then they just roll over TBH.

 

- For (3) - same again, give them 14 days to sort it, then start a claim. That way it'll reduce the balance at least. As far as getting reduced payments/interest frozen, it is possible to do if you send off a Budget Sheet, showing income/expediture and "disposible income".

 

Those "we're looking into it letters" are just fob-offs, designed to waste your time, when all they are looking into is a mug of coffee.... just ignore them and press on.

[nololly]

Many thanks. Ok, latest.......... as Littlewoods were able to produce an original signed CCA with full terms on etc. obviously I have no choice but to offer payment on that one, so Ive offered payments of £10 per month until I find employment again. I have also said to them that the account is still in dispute but that I will commence paying ten pounds a month starting from tomorrow. 1st April 2010, just to show any judge, should it come to court, that I have made a proposal to them and have stuck to it without failing to make a required payment on the first of every month. But I have sent another letter today saying they still owe me a lot of charges back, with full breakdown attached, and saying that even though I am offering to pay the account blah blah blah at ten pounds a month that I still want and demand all the charges refunding back to the account. We shall see what comes back.

 

2) With regard to Kays and Additions Direct catalogues, as they have not been able to produce true signed copies of CCA etc. then I have sent the ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE LETTER, to each, even though they owe me charges back on both accounts. Im still pursuing the charges back, i.e sending LBA to each tomorrow saying I still want the charges refunding back to the accounts, but have no intention of paying them anything until they can come up with a signed CCA. Account in dispute. Is this a correct course of action ? Can they take me to court based on this i.e. no signed CCA (letter says cannot locate them), and the fact they owe me charges back. What happens if I get the charges back to the account, but still no CCA. Do I then have to pay the accounts or not ?

 

3) One last query. If an account was opened before 2004, i.e I have one that was opened in 1996 (classic confidence) online, which I also sent CCA for and they have come back with a copy of a CCA but its just been filled out roughly in hand writing by somebody and its not signed by me. Do I have to pay this then, or is it unenforceable ?

 

All advice very very gratefully appreciated. Thank you so much one and all.

[nololly]

Latest letter from Littlewoods today. And I quote:

 

Dear Mrs XXXX

 

Further to your letter of XXXXX march regarding a dispute on your littlewoods account, Our understanding of your complaint is that having acknowledged that we have sent a copy of your signed agreement to you, that you are now in a postiion to offer a payment of £10 per month and you require all administration charges on the account, refunding, all interest suspended, and all future correspondence to be in writing.

 

I note your comments that you are unable to pay the full minimum amount that has been requested on your account and you can only afford to pay £10 per month and I can confirm that when a customer is experiencing financial difficulties we can offer you a temporary minimum payment arrangement. A temporary minimum payment arrangement for a maximum of six statements can be set up on your account. We are willing to set up a minimum payment arrangement on hour account for you to pay £133 per month for the next six statement. to set up this arrangement please telephone our payments helpline on 0844 822 4646. If you are unable to accept the above arrangement you can contact an external debt management company and request that they provide you with assistance in order to sort out your finances. Examples of debt management companies who do not charge, are the Consumer Credit counselling service CCCS and the Citizens Advice Bureau CAB. The debt management company will need to obtain a letter of authority from you to state that they can deal with your account. They will need to complete a financial statement and send in a suitable offer of repayment for your account. I understand that you have already completed a budget sheet showing your income and expenditures, however this information does need to be completed by a Debt Management Company to ensure that the information provided is both accurate and up to date.

 

However, on this occasion only, in order to provide you with the time needed to contact a debt management company, I have set up a temporary minimum payment arrangement on your account for you to pay £10 for three installments only. The first payment to be received by 1st XXX 2010 and the following two installments should be received every 28 days by your payment due date. Once the arrangement has completed you will be required to either bring your account up to date, contact our payments helpline to accept a company arrangement or have a debt management company working on your behalf to set up a long term payment arrangement on your account.

 

You state that you require all interest to be suspended until further notice whilst the account is in dispute. The interest charged on your account is due to your outstanding balance at the time of £xxxxx on XX October 2009, being adjusted at your request, to an interest bearing account, so this cannot be credited back. I can confirm that you are not charged interest on a statement basis. You require all admin charges refunding as previously advised in our final response letter to you, dated XXX March, all admin charges were justified in Appendix 2, which was included with the letter and as advised the company is not prepared to refund the charges that have been applied to your account, these will continue to be applied until such time that you agree a payment plan with our telephone collections team. If you do not make the correct 28 day min payment to your account then your account will fall into arrears and our Arrears Collection Dept will contact you via telephone and mail. Whilst it is not our intention to harrass people into to making payments they are unable to afford, merely to persuade them to meet their obligations and I am sorry if this has been misunderstood. Constant monitoring of telephone conversations is procedural and we have received no other complaints of this nature. Please also note that we are legally obliged to advise an account holder of their arrears on an account as there may be a detrimental effect on their credit file. I trust my explanation meet with your satisfaction and confirm that this letter is our final response to your complaint. If, however, you have any further information that you would like me to consider, please contact me on the number below. Customer Services: 0844 811 8515. (Aintree). If you are not happy with this, our final response then you can now refer your complaint to the financial ombudsmans service FOS but you must do so within six months.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Littlewoods xxxxxxxx

********************************************

Help............... what do I do next. The account balance was about £1300, but once NDR transferred this into a loan (not at my request, but I was basically told I had no choice on this matter because I wasnt keeping up payments), then they added a further £500 roughly in interest so the balance is now at about £1800. But they owe me over £260 so far back in charges on the account. I know theres much more, but Im just waiting for the full SAR details to come back so I can calculate exactly how much it is they owe me back on this account. I am paying £10 a month, which is all I can afford, and made my first payment last week direct online so I didnt have to speak to them, but can anybody please tell me where I stand on this and if I can continue to insist they have to accept my £10 a month ??? but that I also want to pursue them for the charges back on the account.

 

1) How do I take them to court for the charges crediting back

2) How do I get them to accept £10 a month on the account as I cant afford any more than that

3) Does this mean I can still insist the account is in dispute or not ?

 

Help please. Somebody, anybody. ??

[jungle vip]

Hi there, that might be there downfall swapping the payment plan to a unauthorized loan, It might be an idea to CCA them for a signed copy of the loan agreement, when they cant produce one put the loan in dispute, Have a ratch around the bank loan and legal threads for more information on here.