No CCA, so what next?

[pinklover]

Hi all,

 

Trying desperately :confused:to find an answer to my question and figure maybe someone can kindly advice?! As some may have seen under the HSBC thread that I've recently request for a copy of my signed CCA for an unsecured loan with them. Though they took a bit over the 14 days timeline, they confirmed in writing that they cannot locate my original signed agreement and instead send me the blank proposed agreement at the time and some T's&C's. They suggested that although the account would have been in dispute and on hold while they took longer to send me the documents, as they've now produce the BLANK forms the account is active and that I still owe the money with charges and interest added on.

 

Am I right to think that this is now an un-enforceble loan ie. cannot be send to court or chase by DCA etc?? If so, what is my next step? Should I either make an full and final offer or just wait and see?

 

I'd appreciate if someone can point me a letter to send them, perhaps letting them know that this debt is uneforceble and ask to be written off?

 

Manys for any help in advance.

[cerberusalert]

I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

 

**amend to suit your circumstances.**

[dx100uk]

your next step is to fire off the failure to comply to CCa / Account in dispute letter.

 

don't get too taken in by what these reclaim Co's sprout about unenforceable agreements.

 

an unenforceable agreement, is just that, unenforceable in a court of law, the debt doesn't go away & its not some magical bullet that wipes debt out.

 

dx

[pinklover]

Thanks, :)I understand that the debt won't just go away that easily! But my main concern is for it not result in court. I really don't mind how they want to chase me for it or trash my credit rating as it is already trashed and don't plan wanting any credit in the future..well at least for the next 10 years!

 

Thanks for the template letter, I'm just a bit confused if I should send that letter as it again demand a true copy of the agreement etc from them but they have already admitted that they don't have it. So, are there any point to ask again when they don't have it? Or does it mean to say to them becos they can't produce the sign copy, I can now put the account in legal dispute?

 

I know I need to response but just don't know what to response with..

[cerberusalert]

If they were to apply for a CCJ they would still have to produce an enforceable CCA under 'Strict Proof', they are unable to do so and have written verifying that fact so you have an absolute defence.

[pinklover]

Thanks Cerberusalert! I shall keep this hard copy of letter safe then! No doubt they'll still pass it on to DCA eventually and this will come in useful. I think I'll still send in the letter you posted but adapt it to suit this circumstances.

 

Thanks again.

[hendo]

If they were to apply for a CCJ they would still have to produce an enforceable CCA under 'Strict Proof', they are unable to do so and have written verifying that fact so you have an absolute defence.

 

 

What is this 'strict proof'? The burden of proof in civil matters is 'the balance of probabilities'.

 

i.e. is it more likely than not that a credit agreement was signed containing all of the prescribed terms. That is the relevant question and it does not necessarily mean that a signed copy of the agreement has to be produced.

[cerberusalert]

If they are relying on a signed credit agreement as evidence of a debt you can bring them to 'Strict Proof' to produce the original agreement to the court.