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    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
    • when did they (who) inform you there was a 'police case' and when was this attained? i will guess the debt is now SB'd as it's UAE 15yrs. have you informed the bsnk ever by email/letter of your correct and current address? you can always ignore anyone else accept the bank,  Block and bounce back all emails. Block any text messages  Ignore any letters unless it's: - a Statutory Demand - a Letter Of Claim - a Court Claimform via Northants bulk.  
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Councils Refusing to take back a Council Tax Debt


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Hi

 

In my ongoing battle with the local debt collection company I often come back to these forums to see if there is any new way to deal with the knock on the door.

 

I often read in posts of people just like me who have got a council tax debt, want to pay but are refusing to pay the bailiffs due to the charges they are trying to add. It seems a lot of people like me want to pay the council and the councils are refusing.

 

I would like advice on the following paragraph which is paragraph 3 from

 

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) REGULATIONS 1992

AS AMENDED BY

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) (NO.2) REGULATIONS 1993,

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 1998

AND

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) (NO.2) (ENGLAND) REGULATIONS 2003

 

REGULATION 14 AND REGULATION 45 - DISTRESS

 

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender)

is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

 

 

Now if I'm reading that right the council must take the debt back from bailiffs even if the bailiffs have visited.

 

Thanks

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Hi

 

In my ongoing battle with the local debt collection company I often come back to these forums to see if there is any new way to deal with the knock on the door.

 

I often read in posts of people just like me who have got a council tax debt, want to pay but are refusing to pay the bailiffs due to the charges they are trying to add. It seems a lot of people like me want to pay the council and the councils are refusing.

 

You can pay the Council direct using either their online or automated telephone service.

 

I would like advice on the following paragraph which is paragraph 3 from

 

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) REGULATIONS 1992

AS AMENDED BY

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) (NO.2) REGULATIONS 1993,

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 1998

AND

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) (NO.2) (ENGLAND) REGULATIONS 2003

 

REGULATION 14 AND REGULATION 45 - DISTRESS

 

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender)

is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

 

 

Now if I'm reading that right the council must take the debt back from bailiffs even if the bailiffs have visited.

 

No - that means if you pay before the Bailiff calls then they can not charge you any fees. Payment may be made as said earlier.

 

Thanks

 

PT

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Ok so am I misunderstanding the meaning of Levy?

 

To me the Levy would be a walking possession order on goods or items in the home or on a vehicle that the bailiffs can prove ownership of and that is not subject to HP or lease.

 

I'm not talking about not paying bailiffs fees.

 

The wording of paragraph 3 suggests the authority is obliged to accept payment or tender of payment if no levy or possession order is in place. Regardless of bailiffs visit fees which are fixed at a maximum of £42.50.

 

3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender)

is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

 

I have read countless posts on this forum of people who say the councils refuse the deal with them. Does this paragraph not suggest that they can't?

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baliliffs can charge what they like but i think you only have to pay for the first 2 visits.

the council took mine back but in order for that to happen you need to write or email your local mp. tell them whats happened and you want to pay and they should be able to get it refered back. i called the nation debt helpline about it all they sent me all the information on what i could do and my rights

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Ok so thanks for the advice, however I think you are missing the point of my thread.

 

As previously mentioned I have read countless postings of people saying after the council have called the bailiffs in they have told many a poster that they will now have to deal with, arrange payment plans etc with the bailiff.

 

What I want to know is are they in breach of Regulation 14 & 45 Distress by refusing to deal with people once refered to a bailiff.

 

Just to make it clear I am more than comfortable with dealing with the bailiffs in my local area. This thread is more to claify if the council is in breach of regulation by refusing to deal with other posters.

 

Many Thanks

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Ok well thats what I want to know.

 

The paragraph comes from THE NON-DOMESTIC RATING (COLLECTION & ENFORCEMENT) (LOCAL LISTS) REGULATIONS 1989 AS AMENDED

BY

THE NON-DOMESTIC RATING (COLLECTION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT & MISCELLANEOUS PROVISION)

REGULATIONS 1993,

 

THE NON-DOMESTIC RATING (COLLECTION & ENFORCEMENT) (LOCAL LISTS) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 1998

AND THE NON-DOMESTIC RATING (COLLECTION & ENFORCEMENT) (LOCAL LISTS) (AMENDMENT) (ENGLAND)

REGULATIONS 2003

 

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) REGULATIONS 1992

AS AMENDED BY

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) (NO.2) REGULATIONS 1993,

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 1998

AND

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) (AMENDMENT) (NO.2) (ENGLAND) REGULATIONS 2003

 

And thats produced by HM Gov and I see paragraph 1a quoted all over this site

 

1A) Without prejudice to paragraph (8) below no person making a distress shall seize any goods of the debtor of any of the

following description:-

(a) such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary to the debtor for use personally in his

employment, business or vocation;

(b) such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions as are necessary for satisfying the basic

domestic needs of the debtor and his family

 

So surely paragraph 3 must apply to councils refusing to deal with clients already refered to bailiffs.

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Again to me paragraph 3 suggests that the council must again take control of the debt once the tender of payment has been made.

 

"and the levy shall not be proceeded with"

 

So if the bailiff keeps visiting with regards to that part of the debt thats harassment and a criminal matter.

 

Again I am not try to find a way out of the £42.50 bailiffs visit fees, more try to see if there is a legally defined way to make councils take control of the council tax debt once passed to a bailiff.

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I think confusion here comes from : 'before any goods are seized'

Am I right in thinking a levy effectively seizes goods but leaves them in situ? If so payment can be accepted by the council after the case has been passed on but before a levy is made. In which case the levy would not be proceeded with...

I think.

Rae.

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Indeed however it seems from many other postings on this site that the councils are reluctant to return the debt from the bailiffs once it has been pasted. Surely the wording of paragraph 3 puts on onus on the Authority to take back control of the debt and stop the bailiffs visits.

 

I'll try to put in context.

 

You have had the first visit from the bailiffs they did not gain entry and they were unable to levy against an item outside the property (a car etc). You call the council to discuss but as other posters have stated they won't talk to you and just refer you to the bailiff and we all know they don't want anything except you money.

So at this time a levy is not enforce, you fees are the bailiff first visit fee of £24, your court fee and the original debt.

 

My thinking is that paragraph 3 forces the council even if they don't want to, to accept you offer of the original debt, and your court fee and stop any further action from the bailiff regarding this debt. And I can tell you from experience the bailiff is unlikely to keep harassing you for £24 if they know you know thats all they can get.

 

3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender)

is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

 

Can anyone tell me if I have read and interpreted it correctly?

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I haven't read the entire document and - understandably - am somewhat loathe to do so. Presuming there is no other legislative reason and taking that one paragraph as a self-contained element - and bearing in mind my strengths lie in English, not Law - then yes. That's how it reads. It is saying, apparently quite clearly, that where a case has gone to a bailiff but payment in full is made to the council - including any relevant bailiff visit fees - before a levy is made than the council should accept payment in full and the levy process cannot proceed.

I would be interested to see further comments on this and how it can be interpreted in an opposite manner.

Rae.

Edited by RaeUK
typoo
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I would like to take my interpretation of paragraph 3 further and disagree slightly with a respondent to my thread.

 

Paragraph 3 does state paid or tendered, this could be interpreted as offer of payment in installments as well paid in full.

 

I find it very worrying that half a dozen of the threads on the first page are council tax related and that one of the first things most say are I called the council and they just didn't want to know.

 

I would very much hope someone with some proper legal knowledge of REGULATION 14 AND REGULATION 45 - DISTRESS will get involved and clarify if there is a legal standpoint here that many people are missing and many councils are ignoring.

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I wouldn't necessarily accept that, in this context, 'tender' or 'tendered' would equate to payment by installment.

 

Tender - offer or present for acceptance / bid: a formal proposal to purchase at a specified price / offer: propose a payment

 

I would suggest that giving a cheque to cover full payment would constitute tender as it is not cleared funds there and then.

 

But you are correct in thinking a legal mind is required...

 

Rae.

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Ok agreed I can not infer payment by installment.

 

So lets bring some common sense into the argument.

 

The council wants the money paid, so they've bought in bailiffs, they can't get anywhere because they can't levy. You go back to the council with a legal stand point the makes them take the debt back, and I'm not pulling this regulation from some old and dusty law box this is often attached to the Schedule 5 document on many .gov sites. The ball is very much in your court at this point, I for one would be inclined to think a sensible council finance officer would be willing to take what they can get.

 

I realise that this has now strayed in the realm conjecture and requires a specific set of circumstances. But.....

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My personal view is that it should work - given the caveats I made earlier - for a person able to make payment in full. I would be interested to see someone use this.

I don't believe it would work for installments as, generally speaking and for whatever reason, the council will have evidence this method did not work in the past.

Likewise there is diminished scope for negotiation.

I do not believe that councils are unaware of how bailiffs operate and the insidious ways they blackmail large sums of money from those who cannot afford it by forcing them further into debt or intimidate those who can into paying. That is why our democratically elected councils use them.

However, those who are in genuine need and are vulnerable have some protection within the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. Although sometimes difficult it is an increasingly successful method of getting cases away from bailiffs.

Rae.

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if the baillifs cant make a levy on your goods and try to gain entry a few times but dont succeed they hand the debt back to the council.

you dont have to pay the amount to the bailiffs you can pay it all to the council and they will except your money regardless

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  • 1 month later...

Ive got a meeting with a council tax officer tomorrow i will ask the question.

They have hit me for a council tax bill for 4 weeks from 2004 £87 quid with costs of £73 which i was unaware of until last week.

an additional bill for feb 09 to aug 09 fro £737 the council tax was in someone elses name i was unaware JACOBS INVOLVED

a bill for jan 2010 to date for £265 again unaware.

and to top it off a bill for 1354 for april 2010 - april 2011

the strange thing is i no longer live at the address and havent since august 09 and the council are fully aware of who is liable for the council tax MY EX

i have never been the person responsible for the council tax my wife was / is.

She has never changed the details

when i asked the council who changed the details they said they could not discuss it???????

i asked my wife she said she didnt

i asked the council why not they replied its private and confidential

they cannot discuss

i asked them if i can take my name off the bill they said no

i asked them if i could put someone elses name on the bill they said no

i asked then how the hell did my name get on there then because i certainly didnt request it???????

silence fell when the penny dropped what they were saying was utter rubbish.

cant wait for the morning see them squirm out of this one.

to clarify

we both own the property

we split up

we occasionaly flip properties

i pay the council tax on 1 she the other

simple

bill me for address 1

bill my ex for address 2

confused !!

anyway i will ask that question about the payment to get the order back from Jacobs.

to the council

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Oh by the way an installment plan request is a TENDER.

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender)

is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

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Latin tendere, present active infinitive of tendō.

[edit] Verb

 

Latin tendere, present active infinitive of tendō.

[edit] Verb

 

tender (first-person singular present tiendo, first-person singular preterite tendí, past participle tendido)

  1. (transitive) to spread, to stretch outtender (first-person singular present tiendo, first-person singular preterite tendí, past participle tendido)

  1. (transitive) to spread, to stretch out

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