baliliffs and legal owner query Help!

[melsywooh]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone can advise. In 2008 parents leased me their car in order for me to attend university on the condtion that I would maintain the vehicle and return it to them within two year, any damage ect would need to be corrected by me. My parents have the orginal proof of purchase and the written agreement with the conditions outlining that I use it but they own. So far all was well, until last year I received a car parking ticket £25.00 my partner paid it by cheque and that was that. however he stupidly forgot to put the ticket number on the cheque and it never got paid (only just found this out by bank) we moved and never received the co-respondences. A court bailif arrived at my new home and clamped my car demanded £342.00 on the spot or he will cease my car. I gave him an un garaunteed cheque to bide me time to find out what on earth had happended. Off he went I cancelled the cheque and followed the courts advise which was to produce a witness statement and a time extension. The enforcement is on hold at the moment. I produce the lease agreement (not business or firm) but the bailiff refused to accept that my parents owned it and not me. He now won't give the cheque back (just as well it is cancelled) he said once the holding time is finished he is coming back for the car? can he do this to a vehicle that yes I am the registered keeper as the agreement states but not the legal owner. I have followed all the correct paths and the bailif is still making threats. I will still need to pay the fine, but if the enforcement goes ahead can he take the car? I also offered installements originally he declined.

[pin1onu]

Just to be absolutely clear who issued the ticket? Was a council or a private company. From you description it sounds like a council job but bailffs can also be used in the county court if you fail to pay in the time specified.

 

The ways of dealing with this differ depending on who issued the ticket.

[buzby]

Why would this matter? Bailiffs are only instructed by the courts, so irrespective of the original pursuer, the matter has now progressed to the enforcement stage. By issuing (and cancelling) the cheque, you may have further problems, as that in itself is classed as fraud.

 

You do not have a lease agreement - not unless your parents are registered with the FSA. Basically, you have an agreement to use their vehicle, and in the absence of you paying, the liability falls onto the Regisatered Keeper (if a Council-issued ticket). The car can be seized by Bailiffs and sold at auction to pay the debt.

[lamma]

bailiffs do misrepresent. it has been known for bailiffs to clamp a car when they know its not the correct vehcle. they just want money. contact tomtubby and or go to the bailiff section. liability (for council tickets falls to 'the person appearing to be owner' (the RK being the assumed owner) unless it can be shown that someone else is the owner. As I said bailiff are known to ignore clear proof. they are also known to clamp a vehicle before knocking, something they are not supposed to do. Plus bailiffs are known to claim to be from the court when they are acting in a private capacity. Tomtubby and the bailiff section.

[buzby]

Perhaps there are some devious ones out there, but the same could be said for the debtors. But a bailiff doing as you describe would lose his warrant in short order. I looked into this and last year only found 6 that had been defrocked in this way. You would think that this would be much higher, following the multiple claims of misrepresentation made.

[lamma]

breaches are much more numerous than the number of defrocked bailiffs. watch one of the TV bailiff programs and you will see many breaches and frequent misreprentation by bailiffs and they don't get defrocked as result.

[buzby]

Incompetence is allowed, but misrepresentation isn't - which would be what the case is here. I did manage to get one kicked out as he wasn;t licensed to act in my area, and his entire presence did not have the backing of the Scottish Courts. He was defrocked, and became a debt collector.

[melsywooh]

Hi all, thank you all for your replies x.

 

To answer some of your queries.

It was a council car parking ticket.

The bailiff knew the cheque was only a holding cheques as he was returning 2 days later for the cash or car, he demanded my debit card details but the police told me to give them to him.

In the mean time I contacted the council who explained that I needed to file for time extension and a witness sstatement.

The bailif was instructed by a dept company. I asked to see the paper work it states £90.00 fine to pay the bailif charges made the overal cost of £342.00. I have accepted responsibilty for the ticket, but the car is not legally mine. Although I am the registered keeper.

I am confused regarding the court as there was no court information, other than the traffic enforcement office upon which I contacted and provided the correct evidence. The cheque is not fraud as the bailif new it would not clear I cancelled (as a later precaution ) it as he would not return the cheque and the enforcement has been suspended. The suspension was issued during the 2 days allowed before he returned for the cash/car. Hope this helps

[melsywooh]

Hi all, thank you all for your replies x.

 

To answer some of your queries.

It was a council car parking ticket.

The bailiff knew the cheque was only a holding cheques as he was returning 2 days later for the cash or car, he demanded my debit card details but the police told me to give them to him.

In the mean time I contacted the council who explained that I needed to file for time extension and a witness sstatement.

The bailif was instructed by a dept company. I asked to see the paper work it states £90.00 fine to pay the bailif charges made the overal cost of £342.00. I have accepted responsibilty for the ticket, but the car is not legally mine. Although I am the registered keeper.

I am confused regarding the court as there was no court information, other than the traffic enforcement office upon which I contacted and provided the correct evidence. The cheque is not fraud as the bailif new it would not clear I cancelled (as a later precaution ) it as he would not return the cheque and the enforcement has been suspended. The suspension was issued during the 2 days allowed before he returned for the cash/car. Hope this helps

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

You do not have a lease agreement - not unless your parents are registered with the FSA. Basically, you have an agreement to use their vehicle, and in the absence of you paying, the liability falls onto the Regisatered Keeper (if a Council-issued ticket). The car can be seized by Bailiffs and sold at auction to pay the debt.

 

No, in the case of an LA ticket, the liability falls on the owner not the registered keeper.

 

OK there is, at law, a presumption that the registered keeper is the owner but this is capable of rebuttal. This may well apply here as effectively what the parents have done is to loan (not lease) the car to their child. This appears to be documented.

 

I am assuming that OP is the registered keeper and the need for this can easily be explained if they were the main user as a necessity to avoid allegations of "fronting" for insurance purposes.

 

The real issue here is not having received the paperwork. To determine this we do need to know if this was a PPC or LA issued ticket as the methodology for dealing with it varies. Whether success is achieved will also depend on the extent to which the OP is seen as the author of their own misfortune by their actions (in seemingly not updating DVLA with address and in how the bailiff has been handled).

[melsywooh]

As far as I can gather the original was issued by our Borough Council I would assume LA.

Regarding "fronting insurance purposes" this probably haapens a lot but in my case I have my own fully comp insurance the log book is also in my name but my parents legally own the vehicle. Unfortunately I can appreciate that now I ahve been informed I was totally unaware that DVLA are to be notifed of change of address immediatley I changed my insurance and was changing the details of address when the tax was due oon the 1 march. I am happy to accpet my error regarding change of address as well as the fine. From what I have told the enfocement is on hold pending an enquirey (te7 & te9 form witness and time extension statement) this allows 19 days for the Council to decide the outcome. If I have to pay the fine £90.00 which is very likely what happens to the enforcemnt or bailiff costs? can he still come and cease my car?