Denied Access to Interweb Banking?

[ravenbluemoon]

I've heard about this from several people that I'm helping out, and was wondering if it is commonplace, and if there is any possible action to be taken....

 

The account holders have arrears on their Capital One cards, but, as they are on an Internet Banking account, they don't recieve any statements. When they fall into arrears, as if by magic, the access to their internet account is blocked - therefore there is no way of finding out what the balance is, nor what charges/interest has been applied, or the minimum payment due. I've spoken to someone about this over the phone, and by all accounts this is normal practise for an account in arrears.

 

This is of course when the telephone harassment starts (I'm dealing with this). Now the "phone weasels" can tell you what they want, but how do you believe them. One person has had different amounts to pay from different weasels....

 

Is this common amongst Cap 1 customers, and what law should I apply to get them to either send statements (I've asked in the SAR letter and several times thereafter, but no reply except to "call them"), or if all else fails take legal action. I'm assuming it's a job for Trading Standards?

 

Cheers peeps,

 

Raven

 

P.S: They do send statements when you SAR them, however they don't seem keen on sending any future ones...

[jotty]

I have had the same problem, my son has a card with £100 limit but went over by 99p so they put charges on, when I tried to check the account with him online it was blocked. I then hit the same brick wall despite many phone calls.

 

I am quite prepared to pay the £100.99p but the balance is now £230 and we have no way to check the statements as its all online. I did point also point out that there may be fraudulaent transactions on the account but my son can't check because they wont budge on unlocking the statements until he pays the full amount.

 

Utter madness and a nice littel earner for Cap One.

[Fletch2006]

I too have the same problem. I switched to online statements to save the environment & went over my cred limit by £10 & now can't access any info online at all.

 

The phone weasels rang me the other day & they are always foreigners - I explained I have no idea when my next payment is due or how much because I haven't seen a statement since before Xmas.

 

She said she could send my latest statement in the post - probably me a charge on my next statement for this kind gesture.

 

It is still wrong (& perhaps illegal) that unless the foreigners call you that you can't find out when your next payment is due or how much it is!

[ravenbluemoon]

Hmmm, so it does actually seem to be company policy....

 

I'm trying to draft up a letter to deal with this, the only bit I'm struggling with is with the legal side of things.... I don't know if there's anyone out there that knows their Law better than I do?!?

 

Once I've got the letter written, I'll let you both have a copy of you want it.

[the_shadow]

Couple of things that may help you when you right a response to this....

 

 

1) Banking Code, not enforced but its a code of practice all lenders sign up to.

 

2) Unfair Terms in Contracts Regulations... as the Banking code is a code of practice, if they break it they fall foul of the UTCR's. Also it must surely be unfair for the lender not to allow you access to see how far behind you are and how to recover the position, why should you take what they say on face value if you cant see it in black and white on a screen.

 

3) OFT debt collection guidelines... generally dont come into play until a default situation occurs but its worth quoting still.

 

This is an excerpt from a letter I wrote crapone about registering adverse data but it shows how to use the code and the regs....

 

your organisation is in serious breach of the Banking Code and as such are in breach of Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, specifically Regulation 5 which states:-

 

5.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either paragraph (2) or paragraph (3).

 

(3) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph if—

(a) it concerns any marketing of a product (including comparative advertising) which creates

confusion with any products, trade marks, trade names or other distinguishing marks of a

competitor; or

(b) it concerns any failure by a trader to comply with a commitment contained in a code of

conduct which the trader has undertaken to comply with, if—

(i) the trader indicates in a commercial practice that he is bound by that code of

conduct

 

The Banking Code that you are a signee of clearly states you must cease reporting the status of this account as behind on payments to all Credit Reference Agencies where the amount is disputed, I quote:

 

“13.6 We may give information to Credit Reference Agencies about the personal debts you owe us if: the amount owned is not being disputed”

 

 

 

 

 

 

S.

[ravenbluemoon]

Shadow, you're a star! That's something for me to work on with the letter. I'll take a look at the 'code and the UTCRs for a bit of inspiration, then I'll be sending it to the OFT and FOS and see how it goes.

 

I'm especially interested in what the FOS says as one of my cases has a BIG problem with harassment over debts, and they've kinda ruled on it before with someone (can't remember the thread I saw it on).

 

Anyhoo, I'll get the letter going tonight.

 

Thanks!

[Fletch2006]

Good start guys. Here is another interesting point to bear in mind: -

 

After recent (few years ago) consumer legislation you will no doubt be aware that all financial firms have to send a letter which cap one call a 'notice of default sums'. This letter is usually sent as well as the statement and it mentions how much you have been charged & for what reeason & when they are allowed to start charging interest on the late payment charges etc.

 

The ironic thing is you don't receive one of these in the post if you are over your cred limit, you get told in an e-mail that you have a received one but when you try to access it on the online portal you can't!

 

The whole point of these letters is that they raise to the consumer the cost of being behind on payments or over cred limit but if said consumer cannot read them what is the point!

[the_shadow]

Good start guys. Here is another interesting point to bear in mind: -

 

After recent (few years ago) consumer legislation you will no doubt be aware that all financial firms have to send a letter which cap one call a 'notice of default sums'. This letter is usually sent as well as the statement and it mentions how much you have been charged & for what reeason & when they are allowed to start charging interest on the late payment charges etc.

 

The ironic thing is you don't receive one of these in the post if you are over your cred limit, you get told in an e-mail that you have a received one but when you try to access it on the online portal you can't!

 

The whole point of these letters is that they raise to the consumer the cost of being behind on payments or over cred limit but if said consumer cannot read them what is the point!

 

Its ALWAYS been the case a default notice is required to enable the creditor to take things a further stage.. i.e. sell the debt or take the debtor to court...

 

If the scenario you posted above is correct then if they were to terminate the agreement and sell on the debt or take you to court then they have unlawfully rescinded the contract due to not delivering a default notice at all let alone a cca1974/2006 compliant default notice.

 

S.

[Fletch2006]

Know what you mean but I wasn't talking about that sort of Default Notice.

 

I meant the separate letters that started coming in addition to the statements in 2008 ish. I didn't think these letters tarnish your credit file like the Default notice you refer to (apart from the tarnish from the actual late payment/overlimit charge).

 

As far as I was aware they were introduced to inform the consumer more about charges?

 

Cheers

[the_shadow]

Know what you mean but I wasn't talking about that sort of Default Notice.

 

I meant the separate letters that started coming in addition to the statements in 2008 ish. I didn't think these letters tarnish your credit file like the Default notice you refer to (apart from the tarnish from the actual late payment/overlimit charge).

 

As far as I was aware they were introduced to inform the consumer more about charges?

 

Cheers

 

Ah right, the default charges notice, yep the CCA2006 regs stated you have to be given these if they are to charge interest on any charges, also annually they must send you a statement and if they dont the interest gets wiped for that period they dont comply.

 

S.

[ravenbluemoon]

Ah yes, them - looks like Cap1 actually do send these out, but I'm not convinced that they are sent everytime. Like I say, how do we know?!?

 

Sorry I haven't got round to the letter yet, I've been a little busy. I should have it by the weekend.

[ravenbluemoon]

OK, here's a draft of the letter I'm going to have sent to Capital One. The letter I'll send to the OFT/ICO/someone with teeth will be fairly similar in any case. Thought it'd be better to send something to Cap 1 to get the ball rolling with them.

 

This letter is a bit of a mash up, including bits of a reply to the standard fob-off letter, they've refused to refund the charges, but failed to mention the other aspects of my complaint.

 

Anyway, the letter: Any comments or additions muchly welcome! (removed details and changed numbers to hide claimant's identity)

 

The Executive Office

Capital One Bank plc

PO Box 5281

Nottingham

NG2 3FA

 

19/02/2010

 

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION: DO NOT IGNORE

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account Number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

Your Ref: ERC/KT/xx-xxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2010. There are many issues related to this account, therefore I have divided this letter into several sections.

 

Default Charges

 

Referring to my previous letter to you, dated xx/xx/2010, I was writing to request a demonstration of costs or the repayment of unlawfully misrepresented charges debited from my account. This is under S.5-8 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In no way whatsoever am I referring to the OFT’s statement of April 2006, which is a separate matter relating to Current Accounts only, and therefore of no bearing to this issue.

 

I hereby give you a further 14 days from the date of this letter in which to comply with my request. If I do not receive a satisfactory demonstration & complete breakdown of costs, or full repayment within this time, I will have no alternative but to begin legal proceedings to recover this money. This action will cost a minimum of £45, which will be added to the balance owed.

I enclose a schedule of charges which reflects the current level of interest. The total currently stands at £350.00 including interest. I presume you have levied more charges since this list schedule was written up, and I will request that these charges will be returned in addition to the ones listed in the schedule.

 

This is the final correspondence you will receive from me on this matter.

Please do not waste my time by offering a part payment; as such offers will be ignored.

 

Statements

 

In your letter you state:

 

“While disputing these default sums, it is important that you maintain at least the minimum payments on your account. Failure to do this may result in negative information being recorded on your credit file, which may affect your ability to gain credit in the future. To avoid further default sums, you must ensure we receive monthly payments by your due date and your balance stays within the agreed limit. Your payment due date is printed in the statement and we recommend that you make the payments at least 5 working days before this date.”

This of course, is a problem. As you may know from reading my previous correspondence, I am no longer able to access my account online, and you have not satisfied my request to receive paper statements (which I have asked on several occasions). I have been informed by one of your personnel that it is your policy to disable the internet banking account if there are arrears on the account. Therefore, I have no information on the aforementioned “minimum payments”, “account balance” or “due date” – so how do I know what these amounts are?!?

 

In answer to this, you may say that your telephone operatives will tell me this, but how do I know this is the truth? I have no proof that the person calling me is from your company, and therefore for security reasons will not discuss account matters over the phone. If is information is passed to me by statement then I can pay the appropriate amount.

 

Please note that in Section 9 of the Banking Code (to which you have signed up to) states that:

“9.1 To help you manage your account and check entries on it, we will give you regular account statements....

9.2 We will normally give you a statement every month, every three months or at least once a year...

9.3 If you have a card which allows you to withdraw money from your account, we will provide you with statements at least every three months if you have used the card.”

 

Currently, you are not providing me with statements of any kind, thereforeyour organisation is in serious breach of the Banking Code and as such are in breach of Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, specifically Regulation 5 which states:-

 

5.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either paragraph (2) or paragraph (3)....

 

(3) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph if:

(b) It concerns any failure by a trader to comply with a commitment contained in a code of conduct which the trader has undertaken to comply with, if:

(i) The trader indicates in a commercial practice that he is bound by that code of conduct.....

Furthermore, I also note that negative information may be placed on my file. I request that you remove any negative information from my files as I have never consented to my data being used in this way.

 

The Banking Code that you are a signee of clearly states you must cease reporting the status of this account as behind on payments to all credit reference agencies where the amount is disputed, I quote:

 

“13.6 We may give information to credit reference agencies about the personal debts you owe us if: the amount owned is not being disputed”

In conclusion to this section, as the account is now in dispute, I ask you to stop sending my data to credit reference agencies, and to remove any adverse data which you may have sent previously. Also, I request that statements be sent to me by post, as previously requested.

 

Telephone Harassment

 

In relation to the excessive calls made to both my landline and mobile phone, I have again written to you on numerous occasions ordering you to cease calling. The calls are causing serious distress and anguish, and you are in breach of several Acts, including (but not limited to) Section 2 of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. A complaint has now been lodged with the OFT on this matter. In the meantime you are to cease and desist with immediate effect.

 

Final Note

 

Given your track record in not responding to letters, or sending the most appropriate template letter to me without actually reading the letter in full, I request that these matters are taken seriously, and a full response given within 14 days of the date of this letter. However, I have also spoken to the OFT and the Information Commissioner, who will take action should the issues not be resolved. I also reserve the right to start action via the small claims court to recover the aforementioned charges plus claims for damages with respect to distress, inconvenience and harassment.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

A.N.Other

[Fletch2006]

Hi Mr A N. Other,

 

Just read ur letter, I think that covers all the necessary aspects. No doubt you will send it 'signed for'.

 

Well done & lets hope it makes em see sum sense!

 

Have a good weekend

 

Fletch

[ravenbluemoon]

Yeah I'll make sure of it... short of hand delivering it (I work just across town from their offices)!

[Fletch2006]

Hi Raven, I bet they wouldn't let you in lol!

 

By the way, do you know what I should do next, cap 1 are refusing to refund my £12 charges incurred for the past few years. They sent a reply to my first letter which said no basically & I replied back with my 2nd letter saying 'I have not received a satisfactory response & will commence court action etc & that was over 2 weeks ago now.

 

What is the best route forward - do you know if the FOS will look at £12 charges cases or should I commence court action?

 

Cheers

[Helford]

Crap One, stopped sending me statements last Autumn for no reason whatsoever, I then moved, wrote and told them my new address (Quoting key information that only they would know!) and they wrote back asking me to write to them again telling them that I have moved - not happy with my signature apparently (???). I don't think they ever had it in the first place. No statements for the last few months since!

 

They have now blocked my internet account as well. No worry, I'll guess and keep things ticking over, pending me hitting them with another charges reclaim like I did at the end of 2006. Strange, they had all my signatures then - on the N1 Claim form that I submitted via the County Court :D:D

 

When will these idiots learn?

[Craigbadger]

Interestingly ive just realised that ive not recieved a statement certainly not this year and probably in a few months. I cant access my online banking also. I am in arrears. Hideous unprofessional company they seem like. Well do keep updating this post, i'm curious to see what happens.

[ploddingon]

ive alway had paper statements and about a year ago decided to set up the online banking, i was considering going paper free but then decided against it, since then i have defauls and account has been blocked but because i didnt request paper free i still get a paper statement thank god (so i can see how much there ripping me off for)

 

anyway, im now on benifits as i had a baby and could not manage the hours i used to work, ive been trying to cover my cap 1 charges but every time i get my balence just below the limit they add there charges and then charge me for there charges lol.... over and over agin...

 

soooooooooooo ive decided to get my cash back ha ha,,,,, im actually excited... im just sercing the capital one forum for the first letter details as im not sure what i should write.... do i just ask for a list of charges since my account was opened?

 

grrr c1 make me furious how they act, i only wanted to keep the card to help with my credit rating, but its not much help while its over the limit is it i suppose

[ploddingon]

ok ive just come across it now..the subject access request form.. is that right (for list of overlimt/late charges?

[Fletch2006]

Yes Subject access request. Send a cheque for a tenner too (not a postal order cause they go missing).

 

With a cheque you can see when it was cashed.

 

Send it signed for & be prepared to wait the 40 days

[jotty]

Any update on this as I am about to send a similar letter

[ravenbluemoon]

Terribly sorry, I forgot to keep you all updated. Here's where we are now.

 

We sent off that letter a short while ago. In the meantime, we got a letter back, offering the charges back, but not quite the amount of interest we were after. The account holder accepted it, as it wasn't worth going after the other £40. They wanted her to send back the attached "Complaint Settlement Form", but as there was still issues remaining, I made sure that she crossed out "I confirm my acceptance of Carp 1's offer to refund £296 in full and final settlement of my complaint" to "partial settlement, see attached letter", then sent the following letter:

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated 03/03/2010, regarding the offer of settlement.

 

I respectfully accept the sum of £296.89 that you have offered, although I believe that the interest has been calculated incorrectly, as based upon your interest rates on the account, the total should be £338.46. However in order to reach a swift conclusion, I accept your calculation.

 

However, I can only accept this as a partial settlement of the complaint. I have amended the attached settlement form to reflect this. The reason that I can only accept this as a partial settlement is that the following issues outlined in my complaint letters still have not been addressed by you:

 

1) Lack of paper statements

 

I still have not received any paper statements for my account, as requested on several letters. Therefore I do not know the current balance or minimum payment due. I am keen to pay off the account as soon as possible, but until I have proof of what is owed, I cannot pay. I do not trust anything that may be discussed over the phone as there is no proof, and in addition, I believe further charges may have been applied to the account.

 

Please send me statements for the months of January, February and March, together with an apology and an explanation of why you insist on concealing my account information from me.

 

 

2) Telephone Harassment

 

This has not been addressed in any way whatsoever, and I consider the silence from you on the subject to be very unprofessional. If I do not receive an apology and explanation as to why you are continually calling me when I ask you NOT to, I will take the matter to the County Court, where I will be claiming for damages under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. I will also require confirmation that my account is marked to show that telephone calls are not accepted.

 

You have 14 days from the receipt of this letter to respond, or further action will be taken.

 

 

I think this letter may well have crossed in the post with another letter from them (or it was an astonishingly quick response!): I've attached them below with a bit of annotation. NOTE that they admit blocking the account as a ploy for the account holder to answer the phone!

 

 

As you can see, they promised to unlock the account online. HOWEVER - we tried to gain access to this account, and it still shows up as blocked! So, another letter to send. The annoying thing is, once the charges are refunded, the account holder is more than happy to pay the remaining balance.... which is about £33 - as there are three more charges to claim since the original letters are sent (worth £36, this can be seen on statements summaries that they sent with their letter) - so Carp 1 actually owe HER £3!

 

We'll see if they send a paper statement as promised...

 

Hope this helps anyone out there!

Edited March 21, 2010 by ravenbluemoon
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[jotty]

Letter sent, lets see if they give me the same excuses.

[ravenbluemoon]

We'll see, eh?

 

I'm going to take this further over the next few days (work permitting), and I'll let you know how I get on.

[jotty]

Any update raven, I have receivd the usual we will let you know reply but nothing else and the constant phone calls continue, we even had a debt collector turn up the other day !