Loan Arranged Through Intermediary For Limited Company

[BobDuncan]

Hi all, I know it is something you may have heard before, but I have been, what I feel to be the victim of being too honest. I worked for a training company and my title was Director of Training and Courses. I was not a share holder of the company and I did not have any voting rights or anything. Suffice to say I trusted the person arranging a loan for the company. I was asked to sign as a witness, as the MD of the company arranged a loan. I was told there was no liability on me as the loan was a business loan being paid to the company. I had no reason to believe otherwise as I was shown that the monies were being paid into the company account and the monthly payments were arranged through a direct debit from the same account. Another loan was arranged after a couple of years and again I was asked to sign, although the details were given to me by the MD this time and I was told the intermediary had arranged it and all I had to do was sign again, same details etc. I have posted the rest of this elsewhere but been advised to start my own thread.

 

I used a company called Henderson & Barker and contacted them with a view to investigating the legality of a couple of loans made to the company I worked for and for which I do not accept liability. the first loan was arranged through an intermediary and paid into a Limited Company account. I was led to believe that I was signing as a witness and the said intermediary had his hand over the page indicating with his finger to sign here. He constantly told me as a limited company there was no liability on me for the loan as it was a company loan. A second loan was arranged as a consolidation of the first loan. This again was paid into the company account and the monthly payments were paid by the company. I had no reason to worry, that was until I was unfairly dismissed on 29 June 2007 and had to take my employer to court for such. Won my case after 10 months, awarded £29k but never had a penny of it.

 

Anyway, Henderson & Barker passed my case to their solicitors, Ultimate Law Ltd who sent all the papers for authorisation to act on my behalf for me to sign and return and I sent 2 x postal orders for £10.00 to get all the correspondence under the Data Protection Act etc from The Halifax. I received a letter from Ultimate Law dated 29 Nov 09 saying that on reviewing the paperwork the loan was unenforceable and they had written to Halifax saying that they had 28 days to respond. I contacted Ultimate Law at the end of October and they stated they had nothing back but would get on to it straight away. After a period of 3 more weeks I received a letter saying that Ultimate Law would no longer be dealing with my case as it was 'Too Far Progressed'. I telephoned them to enquire as to what Too Far Progressed meant. They just kept saying it was too far progressed and that was it. During all of this, they were fully aware of all the circumstances.

 

I requested all the paperwork they had on my case and they said all they had was the agreements and I should apply in writing for these to be sent back to me, which I did. By the way they were aware that Bank of Scotland (Halifax was taking me to court on 14 January 2010 for the full amount of the loan £20k+ and I was under the impression that Ultimate Law was formulating my defence on my behalf. This did not happen and at the Hearing on 14 January I was told that I had not filed a defence and judgement was to be made. I showed the court the letters I had from Ultimate Law and have now been given 28 days to file a full defence. What do I do now. The letter I sent to Ultimate Law has not been acted on and I am now back at the start. I am already going through a divorce over this, loosing my home and also lost my car. Any help would be appreciated and I do apologise for the short notice. I can't afford a solicitor as I barely cover the monthly bills.

[citizenB]

just giving your thread a little nudge. I have also alerted the site team for you.

 

Have you started to prepare a defence. If you want to pop a draft up, we can have a look at it for you.

[BobDuncan]

Thanks CitizenB,

 

As you can see, my case, to me is a bit of a minefield, I have never had to deal with anything like this before and feel like a fish out of water. All I can say is I have today telephoned Ultimate Law Solicitors Ltd and again been told that someone will call me back??. I know for a fact that if I again request the paperwork from Halifax they have 30 days to respond with the appropriate paperwork. I have been given 28 days to file my defence by 4pm on the 28th day. I have on three separate occasions requested via a letter to Halifax to be supplied with the name of the intermediary who started all this off with the arrangements for the loan. I have never been given this information. The MD of the company has filed herself as a bankrupt and sold her house, moved, changed her mobile (number unobtainable) and having spoken to a past colleague all the company paperwork has been disposed off?? I know the original documents were with the company, I had no reason to have a copy of what I thought was paperwork for company loans. It was only after her company was being sold to another person that I started getting paperwork to my home address and then the claims of the loans being personal loans began.

 

Hope this information helps to shed some more light on the case.

 

Bob D

[BobDuncan]

By the way, the second loan was as I say a consolidation of the first and as such, the first loan was to be paid off, leaving one loan. As is evident, the first loan remained active and the monies paid into the company stayed in the company.

 

Bob

[BobDuncan]

Hi again CitizenB, have you been able to read my reply yet? Can I write to the court to get more time?

[citizenB]

Crikey, it is a bit of a minefield isnt it.

 

I am not sure about being able to get more time. I will try and find someone to give advice.

 

What are we looking at here, around 10th February to have the new defence in by ?

[slick132]

Hi BobD,

 

First step is to post here details of the Particulars of Claim against you, if you have this.

 

By what date must your defence be filed at court.

 

Are you being sued by the bank as a Guarantor to the loan(s) made to the Ltd Co.

 

If Henderson Barker still have any of your papers, send them a Rec'd Del'y letter saying they have failed to assist you in any way and you require the immediate return of your papers to allow you to defend the banks actions yourself.

 

Say you require the papers within 7 days or they will be cited in your defence to the court action as a reason for your being unable to respond properly to the Court Claim against you. Adapt the letter to suit your case but keep it brief.

 

You will have to put a Defence together but we can only work on this when you supply the info I've requested above.

[BobDuncan]

Thanks for this.

 

I am already feeling more positive than I have for the past 6 months. I am contacting Henderson & Barker tomorrow as I have spent the weekend sorting all the paperwork out that I have. I have found the letter requesting the SAR from Halifax and as you state will give them 7 days to respond. I think it would be best to send an email requesting a receipt but will also send a backup copy of the email by post under recorded delivery.

 

No I did not sign the loans as a guarantor for the limited company, I was led to believe I was signing as a witness to the MDs signature. I have requested the name of the intermediary who I am sure was acting as an agent for the Halifax, 3 times from Halifax and although they have responded to my letters they have never given the information requested by me, I have spoken to a solicitor friend who has stated to me that there appears to be an element of fraud by both the MD and the intermediary.

 

The first loan was signed in the MDs office and not in a financial institution, am I correct in believing this should have been signed in a licenced premises for the purposes of arranging finance etc?

 

Once again thanks, I will sort out getting paperwork scanned and available to you.

 

Bob

[BobDuncan]

Forgot to mention, I must post my defence by 4pm on 11 February 2010.

[slick132]

Hi Bob,

 

You need to tell us exactly what their POC was on the Claim if you want help with a Defence.

 

You say you did not sign as a Guarantor. So why are the bank now suing you? Is it possible that the loan(s) were actually in your name personally.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but I don't see why the bank have sued you if they loans were made to a Ltd Co.

[BobDuncan]

Thanks Slick132, As I originally posted, the loans were arranged by an intermediary recommended by the MDs accountants, who say they can't remember who it was. I was under the impression and it was sold as such that the loans were for the company and nothing prior to my unfair dismissal led me to believe otherwise. The money was paid into the company account and the direct debits were from the same account. So from the time the loans were arranged until my unfair dismissal I was none the wiser. Once the company folded it was then claimed by Halifax that the loans were in fact personal loans, and the second loan papers clearly state this on the top. I was shown a line to sign on and this was pointed out which I signed (stupidly). I have contested this with Halifax from day one since finding this out. I will scan the particulars of the claim in today.

 

Bob

[BobDuncan]

The POC is attached.

[BobDuncan]

If you cannot read the attached. This is the first one received back in Oct 08 and it has been ongoing since.

 

The POC reads: The Claimant's claim is for 19943.48 presently due pursuant to a credit agreement entered into by the parties, full particulars of which have been supplied hitherto. By an agreement dated 6/6/05 the Defendant has an account number edited with the claimant. The Defendant hs failed or delayed to adhere to the terms of the Default Notice issued by the Claimant under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1874. The balance due as at 0// on said account is 19943.48.

 

I would also say that under the agreement, there was PPI taken out which they renaged on by saying as I was going to Employment Tribunal they would have to wait for the outcome of such. There is nowhere in the policy documents that state this and as such they have breached the contract anyway.

 

Bob

Edited January 25, 2010 by slick132
removed personal data

[BobDuncan]

Sorry for adding more and more information. The original loan arranged through the intermediary is not at present being pursued and I have heard nothing for a considerable amount of time regarding this one? Although I feel that it is contributory to the facts, the second loan was meant to be a consolidation of the orignal loan.

 

Bob

[slick132]

Hi BobD,

 

The thumbnail is too small to read at all, which may be a good thing as you've left personal details showing (Claim No. and maybe other stuff).

 

I've also removed the a/c no. from your post above and please take care not to post sensitive personal data.

 

Remove the thumbnail asap. As you've confirmed what the POC's were, there's no need to repost them for now.

 

Do you have one or both of the loan agreements - if so, hide the personal data (name, address, a/c no, etc) and post them here so they can be checked over. See here for help with posting documents onto the forum - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

Who do you mean when you say they, here " .... there was PPI taken out which they renaged on by saying as I was going to Employment Tribunal they would have to wait for the outcome of such. "

[BobDuncan]

What I mean by 'they' - Halifax Insurance, organised the PPI under their own insurance scheme and they act totally independent of the Building Society. You can see the standard policy document on line which clearly shows no reference to Employment Tribunals etc. they claim I could not prove I was employed full time prior to my unfair dismissal which is rubbish as I supplied pay slips and bank statements showing continuous salary being paid in. Also the MD spoke to Halifax confirming my employment although they refute this. My tribunal was not about whether I was employed but who employed me at the time of my dismissal as at that time a company takeover was going on which fell through. This despite the fact that we had been taken on under TUPE regulations.

 

Bob

[slick132]

So did you, after being dismissed by the employer, claim for the PPI to make the monthly loan payments, and Halifax Insurance refused.

 

Can you confirm if you have one or both loan documents to post here.

[BobDuncan]

ONLY HAVE SECOND LOAN, STILL TRYING TO FIND COPY OF FIRST LOAN AGREEMENT. Will upload the first one via photobucket. Claimed PPI but Halifax stated could not confirm employment therefore they cancelled the claim. Halifax would not pay up immediately as was the case with the Chelsea Building Society and their PPI, I was forced to take any job going to enable me to pay the mortgage. On winning my case 10 months later I informed both companies of the outcome and they took it upon themselves to reinstate the claims. Both insurances then paid 2 months payments as I had returned to work, albeit part time on minimum wage and having to work 12 - 13 hrs a day to be able to pay the mortgage and utility bills. Just to rub salt into the wound, Chelsea even tried to repossess my house because I fell behind with the monthly installments. Chelsea said the insurance was with Legal & General and therefore it was not their problem??

 

Sorry but I think I must initially concentrate on Halifax BS. As you can see from the agreement it does say to ensure that the loan is covered by insurance in case of not being able to work etc?? This is one of the first things you read

 

Bob D

[BobDuncan]

Hope this works, 4 attachments

 

Bob

[slick132]

Hi BD,

 

The doc'ts posted above are still too small to read at all.

 

Try using PhotoBucket and/or the POST IMAGE

symbol from the REPLY MENU.

 

[BobDuncan]

I will get home this evening and try again, it gives 4 or 5 options to upload scanned images which one do you normally use? or can I email them to you?

[BobDuncan]

I'm not sure if these links will work but I will post them anyway, they are from the share menue in photobucket.

 

 

 

 

[slick132]

Hi BD,

 

I don't think you have a hope in hell of defending on the basis of being unaware or misled about this being a personal loan in your name.

 

It's signed in 3 places and 2 of the sig're boxes suggest the loan is personal to the signatory.

 

The company name is not visible anywhere and there's nothing that I can see to back up your suggestion that you were acting as a co-signer for the company.

 

When the loan was paid or drawn down, did it go first into your own a/c and then into the company, or was it paid direct into the company a/c. Do you have any evidence about how the money was paid over - this could be something to demand from the bank in response to their allegation.

 

I'll see if you have any defence regarding the way the loan was set up with regard to PPI premiums.

Edited February 1, 2010 by slick132
typo

[slick132]

Hi BD,

 

When replying, is there any more you can do to find out who the intermediary was that set up the loan for the MD or company.

 

Also, can you show that you did NOT receive the money into whatever personal bank accounts you were using at the time. If you can do this, then part of your defence could be to put Halifax to produce evidence of the a/c into which the loan was paid.

 

If it was paid into the company account, this would add weight to your arguments.

[slick132]

Hi Bob,

 

Further to the above, I sought expert advice on the credit agreement itself and have to report that it looks enforceable.

 

So any defence will need to rely on other factors, such as where the funds were credited, etc.