yell.com

[youngus]

Hi Palomino,

Thanks , we did think this may be the case, Not sure if you have read my thread from the beginning and can offer any other legal route for me to go down ? My original grumble was that I was miss sold advertising and that when I cancelled (within the time period) they denied receiving my call and after my follow up emails kept stalling me until advert went "LIVE" Any advice would be greatly received!! If however I am stuck with this debt which I cant afford to pay what is the proceedure? Can I offer to make affordable payments to avoid having ccj etc.

[palomino]

Yes I did scroll through the earlier messages.

 

At this point I would lodge a formal complaint with Yell about the advertising being mis-sold, and about the way they have handled the matter.

 

Has Moorcroft bought the debt or are they acting as collection agents?

[youngus]

They are acting as yells collection agents they have added £40 to the debt thus far.

[youngus]

Hi to anyone who has helped me or still can!! Thanks Palomino, are there any drafted letters which I can send to yell? will they listen to me after ignoring my attempts to cancel with them in the first place!!! I think they will probably say its in the hands of moorcroft now but I will give anything a shot .

Edited February 24, 2010 by youngus

[youngus]

Hi Nagasis , Emandcole , Palomino,

Sent Account In Dispute letter and Harassment by telephone letters to moorcroft recorded delivery on 25/02/2010. Today I received a letter - Pre Court Division - Saying further to my recent correspondence , we understand you may be experiencing difficulty paying this balance??? They then list several free options that are available to me. They have totally ignored my dispute letter . Even though we have established(palomino) this is not a cca I still stick firmly to the fact that I did cancel and That their Salesman Damien McCambridge Mis sold Yell in the first place!!

[twofoot]

Had a read through your thread and I doubt if they would go to court though they may well start the ball rolling. I think the best course is to ignore them.

[palomino]

Youngus : even though this particularly contract isn't a credit agreement it is still subject to contract law (of which I know very little).

I would expect that you are entitled to proof that any contract exists. Remember that a contract is between two parties so you might want to consider getting Yell to carry out their obligations under that contract.

[emandcole]

Yep, the pleading of one party to another does not create a contract. It's a two way thing, they should be able to demonstrate precisely how any relationship was determined with the 'rules' each party is supposed to abide by. Same goes for the enjoyment each party has privilege to as a result of that agreement. If they've done everything correctly this should be easy for them to detail.

 

This is a very crude summary but essentially any contract, unless verbal or by conduct for example should be presented on demand.

[youngus]

ok , Thanks guys , I suspect you have realised that I am a bit green when it comes to law and contracts etc and I dont really know what to do next!!! Is there a letter I need to send requesting proof of contract ?They keep stating my return of email is THE contract or am I totally stupid and missing the point????

[charlie*]

It would be intersting to know if the advertising order was placed

by a limited company or by a sole trader.

 

We too have a problem with them but the order was placed by

my son's limited company and we are very puzzled. Problem is,

he cannot afford to go to law for advice and having not been

in biz long, has no accountant - nor the money to pay.

 

Not trying to hi-jack here, but, YELL is unusual so maybe

something good can come out of combining two problems.

 

Let me go a little further here... my son had a large advert in

the Yellow Pages book directory, terms of a franchise... he also

had £3200 value of ad on the internet... Yell.com.

He was told by the Yell salesman that the internet ad could be

cancelled at any time - (of course the directory could not after

they had gone to print).

 

Interestingly, their debt collector is also an insolvency

practitioner and as the original directory order was paid

via credit, a CCAct 1974 agreement was used (for a Ltd Co -

NO Prescribed Terms etc) but now, as he has ceased trading

he has received a DN giving THREE days before winding up

procedures may be started for the Ltd Co. What is concerning

is that they may try to claim that he acted irresponsibly in

confirming the debt (which he did not, by the way) and swing

the debt to him personally. Of course, he would go bankrupt

and that would be the end of a promising youngster. The

franchise by the way was very, very, dicey and they should

not have taken him on as their adverts ans pitch are very

misleading and not entirely truthful.

 

My son may be willing to bear witness that the Yell

rep did state that internet ads could be cancelled. I am talking

to one of their managers later and may be able to trick them

into an admission... I will report anything worthwhile.

 

In the meantime, if anyone has any opinion as to whether or not

a request for a copy agreement, as they claim to be under the

umrella of the CCAct 1974 would be a good idea... or/and whether

or not some action re a DN giving 3 days to remedy from receipt

is a good idea. I do not think there will be a Term/Notice as the DN

states quite clearly...

 

failure to act may result in further action

 

... at the bottom this states;...

 

Intended Action

a) We shall serve a Stat/Demand as stage 1 in insolvency

proceedings

b) We shall seek to recover damages for breach of agreement.

 

Of course, one has to bear in mind here that whilst Yell grant credit (what they really mean is they will accept the ad/cost in 12 installments). They do not charge interest, but seem to reserve the right to do so.

 

Thing is, would the CCAct rules apply just the same as with a normal personal bank loan?

 

1. Agreement requires to be enforceable with Prescribed Terms

2. Default Notices must give 14 days clear.

 

Again, apologies here, hope we can both benefit.

[youngus]

Hi Charlie, I am Myself a sole trader (not a ltd company) and no need to apologise if you google yell you will find we are 2 of numerous people that yell have stiched up! At the moment I have been given some great advice from this site but the problem is getting (moorcroft in my case) or whoever else acts on yells behalf to play ball! If there is any specific question you have I am sure someone will help you here!! I have sent a cca request back on jan 15 and after no response a chase up request they phoned me hounding for the debt to be payed ! Let me know how you get on and I will do the same.

[charlie*]

If the CCAct relates, then going on the agreement we have (and I expect it's a stamdard form) it will not be valid.

Just get a copy with your signature, the copies we have are not signed which is why we have asked for a signed copy.

In your case, you are a sole trader, ie, a human being, NOT a company,

so, you should be okay if the agreement is the same format as the copy left with my son last year.

 

charlie

[youngus]

I have never signed an agreement with yell mine was done as a passworded email which I had to reply to to enter into the contract? to this date they do not have my name or bank details just my initial and sirname which is on the advert , that has never provided me with a single lead!

[charlie*]

Dunno what to say about the way you did it....

 

My son was told by the rep that he could cancel an internet

advert that was payable monthly at anytime and they would

just take down the advert... well, they told me on the phone

today that the agreement could not be cancelled, BUT, they

have taken down the advert and are suing for almost £4000

for the advert on google... 'er, that's on top of the cost for

listings in the directory itself.

 

What I want to know is can we challenge an agreement

and a Default Notice

issued to a Ltd Company, both written, they claim under the

the CCAct 1974, neither of which comply.

 

My concern is that they have stated they will try to switch

the debt from the ltd company to my son on the grounds

of irresposibility.... he's 27, not long out of uni and does not

deserve this. The terrible thing here is that the real villains

get away with it all, no recourse whatsoever.

 

Any ideas, anyone, please?

 

charlie

[youngus]

Hi , Just had a letter from moorcroft asking me to enclose £10.00 fee and proof of id for my subject access request am a bit reluctant to do this without advice 1)what would this provide me with 2)They do not know my name /details so was wondering if I could send a postal order and a bill with just my Initials? Does this request refer to my initial cca request sent 15.01.2010???? To the best of my knowledge I cannot remember requesting this information as I say unless it is included in the cca request!!

Edited March 10, 2010 by youngus

[Nagasis]

Hi , Just had a letter from moorcroft asking me to enclose £10.00 fee and proof of id for my subject access request am a bit reluctant to do this without advice 1)what would this provide me with 2)They do not know my name /details so was wondering if I could send a postal order and a bill with just my Initials? Does this request refer to my initial cca request sent 15.01.2010???? To the best of my knowledge I cannot remember requesting this information as I say unless it is included in the cca request!!

As far as I can see, you have not sent a SAR to moorcroft (unless ive missed it).

 

In any case moorcroft wont hold any info on you anyway so I wouldnt send them your details, sig and £10.

[youngus]

Thanks Nagasis

[youngus]

Hi Nagasis , Emandcole,

 

This morning I received a letter from "midas legal services" who state they are part of the Moorcroft group giving me LITIGATION WARNING as I have failed to reach a repayment agreement and say their clients could instruct their solicitors to arrange for:-

 

1.)County Court Proceedings

 

2.)Service of statutory Demands followed by the appropriate Insolvency Proceedings and Statutory Advertisements

3.) Use of Late Payment of Commercial Debts(Interest)Act 1988 whic Provides for Daily Interest to be added at Bank Of ENGLAND BASE RATE PLUS 8%.

 

In the event of any Judgment obtained they may review enforcement by wharever method necessary ie:-

 

High Court Enforcment Officers.

 

Charging Orders / Third Party Debt Orders

 

Freezing Injuctions.

 

They have given me 7 days to contact them or they may commence without any further notice to me!!!

 

On Jan 20 , 2010 They sent me a letter saying they will put account on hold until they recive documentation from Yell for cca request and forward details to me or advised me to the contrary. They have not done either by means of letter.

 

They have not responded to my Account in Dispute Letter!

On 08/01/2010 They sent me their first notice of intended Litigation(Direct from Moorcroft) The amount on the two Litigation Letters are £1.00 differant which makes me think that the postal order sent for cca request was used to pay off the amount alleged to be owed!! Any advice as to what to do next???

 

Many Thanks

[emandcole]

Hi. All standard bumpf wih the usual array of threats. Could, might, would etc etc. You need to look at the facts of your individual situation and not get confused by a general letter that gets sent by the thousand in the hope of scaring people.

 

You state you've already sent off letters (presumably recorded) asking for various pieces of information. The 20th Jan letter you write about shows they have promised to do something for you, if they haven't done as promised that's their issue and not yours.

 

Your CCA letter should have stated somewhere that the £1 fee you would have enclosed was not to be used for any other purpose than paying the statutory CCA fee? If they've ignored this and instead chosen to credit the fee to the account then that simply creates further difficulty for them.

 

As for high court enforcement officers I would send a copy of the letter to the authorities as no high court in the land will have anything to do with such a trivial matter. Quite simply Moorcroft/Midas are a pretty desperate bunch and they'll tell you anything in order to try and scare you into paying them.

 

The big picture is you've asked for evidence of the debt and how any agreement between you and Yell was arranged, this is your lawful right. If they can't provide such simple documentation or detail how any arrangement was supposed to have run that isn't your fault...clearly they know that too hence all of the rubbish they're sending you now.

 

Sit tight, issue another letter if it makes you feel better reminding them of the situation and what it is you are expecting from them detailing the dates etc. Ask them why they've credited the statutory £1 fee to your account when they know perfectly well what that payment was for. Given their performance to date and the broken promises it is not you at the present time who needs to fear litigation.

 

You simply want to know what the debt is for and how such arrangements were supposed to have been made and regulated. If they can't/won't explain that there is no obligation for you to perform and court is the last place this should be as to date there is nothing for you to act on due to the failure of the debt collector to respond to a very simple request.

 

Send them the letter so you have a record of trying to work this out as it will make them look bad and make you look good. Also, they'll now have to explain a number of matters, which I pretty much guarantee they will try to avoid, more ammo for you in the future. Don't worry about this at all, it's all normal games for them.

[youngus]

Cheers , Have put a letter together will send it recorded like all others!

[youngus]

Hi Emandcole, Nagasis,

Sent letter to Midas / and this is what Moorcroft have sent me:-

 

We refer to previous correspondence regarding Data protection request but primarily to our last letter which advised that we required some additional information before we can access your request.

 

We would be grateful if you could supply the required data(my name and proof of id as they dont have any of my details) in order for us to progress matters.

 

As stated before I did not supply a Data Protection Request have only sent them cca request & chase up / account in dispute letter! Did send letter after correspondence with Emandcole but that went to Midas and basically said Moorcroft have not responded to any of my requests which were recorded deliveries and have taken £1 that was for the cca and credited it to the alleged debt!! Is this normal ?

[emandcole]

It is not normal at all, however as a DCA is involved it is quite typical .

 

First of all, if they can send demanding letters to you, at your address revealing deeply personal information about finances without asking you for identification what difference is there once you've made a request for information at a later stage?

 

None.

 

 

You state you've not issued a SAR? If so what exactly are they referring to then? Just in case, any SAR letter template from CAG would have pointed out if they feel they cannot send you the information they should tell you exactly why, given the clear fact that they had no problems sending other personal data and demands to that address beforehand. If they had not satisfied themselves as to your identity beforehand they should never have issued the letters they sent.

 

I would remind them of this in one final letter, asking them why they are interested in your identity now and were not equally interested in establishing your identity at the very outset before they sent such letters revealing sensitive information to you and about you. If they refuse to provide the info complain to the Data Commissioner as clearly they have already satisfied themselves as to who you are with the issuing of letters.

 

As for them not having your name what planet are they on? Course they have it. As for the ID they're fishing for a signature to copy onto a reconstructed agreement/cereal packet. Hold your ground and remind them that until they've substantiated their claim that you are the debtor you are unable to offer any kind of action. Only they can do this so the ball's in their court now.

 

If they litigate you will have more than enough proof that it was not you being difficult and that the claimants actions are both premature and vexatious in nature as you were clearly attempting to co-operate in full and were merely exercising your right to seek info about the debt they are chasing you for. I feel they may be on a fishing trip by being so awkward and effectively holding out for the signature from you but that's something you would need to consider based on your knowledge of the account history.

 

As for the CCA and them crediting the £1 fee to your account they are not entitled to do this, that charge is for one thing only and they know it. They cannot claim ignorance here, it is a willfull act typically designed to stall/reset the limitation period, thus buying them plenty of time in the future to chase you and the debt.

 

Demand this payment is removed from your payment history and also demand that any third parties they've shared this payment history with is also updated. You would be entitled to proof from them that they have done this, most likely through the CRA's they use who should send you notification that this change has been made if the registering party ask them to inform you. This can be difficult but I've done it myself and although the CRA's can be difficult about it they have a responsibility to ensure any data they hold about you is correct.

 

It is absolutely wrong of them to have misdirected this £1. State in writing that until they have amended their 'mistake' you are not prepared to entertain any further correspondence and if they refuse to amend the information refer it to the authorities. I'm certain any CCA template you would have used would have had the clear statement in it that the fee enclosed is to be used for no other purposes.

[mimi-n]

Hi youngus,

Welcome to the site. Ok, this may be a very tricky issue to resolve and much of any solution or partial remedy may come down to what paperwork/documentation/evidence of any kind you may have.

 

Yell or Moorcroft will not help and you insisting "I called to cancel" etc could be true but of course it is not in the interests of Yell to confirm such claims.

 

Do you have the sales material? Just wondering if you could claim the service was completely misleading as the call volume you were led to believe was no-where near the actual volume you had.

 

Is there a contract?

 

Did you have to pay up front or is this a credit agreement of some sort?

 

 

 

Hi to all,

I found the forum by typing YELL problems in Google and it seems that I have found here the most valuable information I need against them.

My story is quite same as many others.

quite same thing has happened to me last October (2009).

The small difference was that I was miss-leaded all the way 'till the confirmation e-mail. I was thinking of starting a cleaning company and I've set-up a trial website as well.

When I've agreed on the price which the consultant told me over the phone (around £500) for one year he asked me to replay on his e-mail saying that this is to confirm identity and later I will get the contract by post. I asked him is I should read the email first and he said that there is no need and it is the same that he told me already so I stupidly believed and confirmed.

Straight after that I have got an e-mail with all details including the full price which was higher than the originally quoted by the salesman. He just forgot to mention about the VAT. You can imagine how that small detail makes all the difference. I called him straight away and ask about why I was miss leaded. And so on and so on. Finally I told him that I don't want the service any more.(and I didn't even start to use it, never log in). He promised to get back to me with solution but never did so.

Next week I've decided not to proceed with the company (I have never register such a company really) so I've cancelled the website (that includes the e-mail accounts) and just for the record they do not have my real tel. number as I gave them (by mistake) lucky me, my old number which does not exists any more.

After I have got the first paper pack from them asking for my signature I ignored it because I was thinking that if I don't sign there won't be a contract.

It would be interesting to say that there is CREDIT AGREEMENT regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. It says there: Sign only if you want to be legally bound by its terms. Does that makes any difference?

 

And so the money chasing letters started to coming. They have also my Initials only (shame on them) and not my full name.

Now they are saying that they will give my details on a debt collection agency.

I am not entirely sure what they are really able to do and should they prove first that there is such an agreement between them and me or should I prove all that what I said above (that I've been miss-leaded) and take them to court.

What could possibly happen if I absolutely ignore them? Even if they finally go to court to ask for some kind of order (I am not entirely sure how does that happens) they need to provide some kind of evidence, right?

I will be more happy to hear your opinion and will keep you informed if anything else happens.

[youngus]

Hi Emandcole, Nagasis,

 

As suggested I sent one final letter and covered all points made in last post. Today I received a letter from Moorcroft-Home Collections Division Stating my account has been passed to them and this may involve their local representative calling at my home address to try to assist me and seek to establish how I propose to settle the outstanding balance!! Again they have ignored my correspondence. In their final paragraph they have stated that if no satisfactory agreement is made with them our their local rep they recommend to Yell that solicitors commence legal proceedings against me !! I have copies of all correspondence most of which was sent recorded delivery this seems strange that I have received letters from Moorcrofts pre court division / Litigation division / Midas Legal Services and now Home Collections Division and replied to all of them (except last)but none of these individual departments have answered any of my letters or supplied me with any infomation requested! I am not worried abot some meathead coming around my house but if I am not in my partner may feel intimidated , any advice re latest letter would be greatly appreciated as allways, they have given me a deadline of 10.00am on 16/04/2010 to telephone them.

[emandcole]

Jokers. You've documented your attempts to substantiate the debt and they've repeatedly ignored it. That's their choice entirely. As for doorstep collectors most of the time it's supposed to scare you. Quite how that works I have no idea, they have no rights to do anything and have to leave if you tell them too.

 

If your OH is worried about this remind them that it's simply some bloke or woman who wastes their days driving about knocking on doors trying to find someone gullible enough to start making payments. Send them this letter revoking any supposed 'right' to call at your address. Send it recorded, if they ignore it you would technicaally be able to sue them for a civil breach but more importantly it lets them know they can bugger off. Amend as needed as this is a standard template letter.

 

Dear,

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me by telephone over the past few weeks/months and these have been duly logged by time and date.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Yours etc

 

(Don't sign, just initial)

 

That should do it and seriously don't stress about a visit, most of the time they don't even happen and as stated above they have no power to do anything. If you want to be be cheeky you could add a warning about the costs of visiting your property, along the lines of if you ignore this letter and visit the property I reserve the right to charge you £50 for the use of my path etc. Always fun that one.