False accusations after complaining - ** WON **

[elpulpo]

You can't accuse him of not being consistant, put it that way.

[Ms_J]

That's true. The letter is the one of the strangest yet! Hopefully someone realises that there are mistakes in it before they post it out!!

[elpulpo]

Hopefully not.

[Ms_J]

Yep. No doubt I will be requiring further advice when it arrives.

[Ms_J]

One letter received today from MD stating that decision letter will be with me soon. Also states that Dec pay correct.

States that all contracts clearly advise that SSP is paid. I was never given a contract for that role. I was for the initial role I did but the job I moved to was different so how the hell am I supposed to know what each contract states?!

He does not understand how I feel that I was harassed or forced to resign! Also, I offered to resign (?) in the meeting that never took place and he ignored it. This is the meeting that he claims took place where I confessed to stealing letters.

The short fall in my on-call has been disputed by other staff members so I won't be getting that.

As for the deposit, I need to verify it?!

He will make any payment at the end of the month.

[pippadeee]

Am I right that your last day of notice was on Thursday (11th)?. In that case they're too late- they can't dismiss you when you're no longer employed by them, have resigned and also finished your notice period with them too.

I think he's delayed sending any dismissal letter for a reason - that reason being realisation has dawned that, since the onus is on the employee to prove constructive dismissal and so those cases are extremely difficult to win, its perhaps in his interests after all to let your departure remain as a resignation rather than a dismissal which you'd have a better chance of winning in a tribunal situation.

Thats my hunch as to why, after pushing it so hard, he suddenly backed off and hence no dismissal letter.

[Ms_J]

There is a dismissal letter heading my way, I got a sneak preview of it yesterday.

[pippadeee]

I've just read earlier posts and you sent the resignation letter on January 14th yeah? If your notice period was 4 weeks then as of last week you no longer work for the company.

 

The letter you've seen hasn't been sent to you officially has it? You've had another letter in the meantime saying its on its way but you haven't received it. You now officially do not work for the company so its too late to dismiss you. You can't be sacked when you don't work there anymore. They're too late!

 

You have confirmation in that letter you've receved today - which you've received AFTER the end of your notice period and in which it states the decision letter is on its way....thus confirming by the time your notice period expired no official dismissal took place.

 

Keep the envelopes these letters arrive in too btw - the postmark on them may be relevant so keep em safe too.

[Ms_J]

That is right, my notice period ended on Wed.

So this means that I cannot pursue unfair dismissal? What happens about references etc as he will state that I was dismissed?

The letter that I have not yet received but have seen is very basic in that in tells me the decision was made to summarily dismiss me but gives no explanation as to how they reached their decision. I feel that it is a very serious allegation and they really have no proof but this could have a major impact on my future employment and that worries me greatly.

 

I have been keeping the envelopes as I thought they may be useful.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Ms_J
poor spelling

[Ms_J]

Should I have been provided with proof of all of the accusations? I was provided with copies of my signature for two of the allegations but nothing or no explanation for the third and I find this strange and rather unfair. I did state in my written statement for disciplinary hearing that I had not received any info about the third accusation.

The court date is getting closer and I am trying to gather as much info/proof that this man is a liar as I have nothing to back me up except my word.

[elpulpo]

You should be provided with all evidence they intend to rely on prior to a disciplinary hearing.

What court date is this, Ms J? I didn't know you'd made an application.

Sorry, I've taken my eye off the ball a bit with this one.

[Ms_J]

I was pretty sure that's what should have happened. Can I pursue unfair dismissal even though I resigned?

The court date is about the wage arrestments, to find out why it was not implemented, he claims I stole the letters and he knew nothing about it.

[elpulpo]

I'm with ya. I'd forgotten about that court hearing.

Don't know what will happen there. End of the day, it's his responsibility to make the wage deductions. Is he going to attend this court hearing then? If the accusations about you having stolen mail come up, just say " so why hasn't he reported me to the police then?" County Court Judges (Sheriffs I think you call them, you're north of the border, nae?) smell bullsh*t a mile off.

What I'd do now is try and get an initial consultation with a few different employment law solicitors in your area. Take all your evidence with you and see what they think. Be prepared for widely different views.

[Ms_J]

He will be there and that it what is worrying me the most. I would do anything to get out of being in the same room as that little creature.

Yep, it will be a sheriff and the accusations will come up! Spoke to solicitor today and he asked me to go along tomorrow as he thinks my manager definately has a case for constructive dismissal and me too. I know how difficult C/D is to prove so I was hoping that my dismissal may have been useful!

I am struggling to find solicitors who deal with employment and the ones who do are £150+ an hour and do not deal with legal aid.

[elpulpo]

Well, judges control things very firmly, he won't be allowed to be nasty. If he's as big a pratt as he sounds, he'll show himself up. Just keep calm and answer any questions that are put to you.

I'd just use the initial meetings of a few solicitors to get a measure of how you stand. Have you tried CAB?

[Ms_J]

I hope so! Solicitor said the same as you, so hopefully it will be ok.

I went to CAB but wasn't too impressed and they told me that as I had consulted a solicitor they would not be able to offer any assistance.

With regards to the LBA, should I just wait now until the date that the wages should be paid, which just happens to be the day of the court hearing!

[Ms_J]

I have received the letter informing me of my dismissal. I have 2 queries, Should I appeal and also, should they have taken minutes at this disciplinary hearing ?

[elpulpo]

yes and yes

[Ms_J]

yes and yes

Ok, so I would be entitled to have a copy of the minutes? (Not that there will be any at this moment in time!)

What should my grounds for appeal be?

 

Thanks again, elpulpo. You will be sick of me and my questions!

[elpulpo]

Yes. Write and request the minutes.

What does the dismissal letter say? (A load of crap, I'd presume?)

Base the appeal around that.

[Ms_J]

I will do that. Should I do that in the appeal letter?

The letter is full of crap. It is supposed to be from the "independent" person who is refering to himself by his name ie "present at the hearing were mr independent and mr director." If I were writing a letter I would be saying, "present were Mr Director and Myself." I have not to hesitate to contact him if I require any further info but have no contact details for him! The letter was sent on headed paper from the office I worked in.

It says that I handed in a letter and the delay on my part in submitting my evidence caused delay in concluding matters.

After adjourning & considering the facts it was decided that my actions were considered gross misconduct and considering all alternatives decided to summiarily dismiss me. However as I had resigned they cannot continue with the dismissal process.

[Ms_J]

Just spoke to Solicitor who said to ask for minutes and tell them that I am decilning the offer of appeal on the grounds that the desciplinary was unfair as Mr Independent is not independent etc.

[elpulpo]

I'd ask for the minutes first, submitting your intention to appeal at the same time so you don't run out of time to appeal. State that you'll provide the full grounds for your appeal when you've been provided with the minutes.

Address it to Mr Independant c/o your office. Then if pillockbrains opens the letter, you can complain that he's stealing people's mail.

[Ms_J]

Lol, it will be Mrs Independant who opens it! The letter is dated 12th Feb and it arrived today which is 5 days later!

[pippadeee]

What did the solicitor say about the fact that, by the time you received the dismissal letter, you were no longer an employee and hadn't been for almost a week?

 

Aside from that reason, I don't think you should appeal for another reason. The remedy for a successful appeal is reinstatement. Do you want your job back? If not, don't appeal.

 

Was your grievance ever concluded? Did you appeal that?

 

You really do need specialist legal advice I think.