Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • You probably do need to ignore it, but show it to us just in case. Cover up your name, address and anything that could ID you like your car reg. HB
    • Hi all! I've now had a "final notification letter" through from ECP. I assume I should continue to ignore this, but is there likely any action I need to take? Do you need to see a copy of the letter? Thanks
    • Please will you upload the defence in a PDF format document
    • Afternoon All - after 3 weeks of silence, this morning I received an email from HMCTS advising that P2G have rejected my claim. Decide whether to proceed Parcel2Go.com has rejected your claim. You need to decide whether to proceed with the claim. You need to respond before 4pm on 25 June 2024. Your claim won’t continue if you don’t respond by then. This is their ‘defence’ Their defence Why they disagree with the claim When choosing a service on the Defendants website, the Claimant chose to book their order with Evri and selected to take out £20 parcel protection which comes with the service. On the first page of the booking process, the Claimant entered the value of £265 for the contents and was offered parcel protection for loss or damages against their goods for £13.99 + VAT. The Claimant selected no, which then produced a pop up which explained 'We strongly recommend that you protect the full value of your item(s).' however, the Claimant still did not take this protection out and instead continued with the booking process. At the end of the booking process, the Claimant was offered this again which was refused and the Claimant continued with the booking by accepting the terms and conditions which re-iterates the information provided in the booking process. The parcel was sent, however, seems to be delayed in transit. The parcel finally started to track again, however, when delivered the parcel was empty with no contents. As such, the claim was re-opened and attempted to be settled for the £20 protection taken out in the booking process. This was refused by the Claimant as they felt they should be paid the full amount of the value entered when booking. Unfortunately, due to the refusal of the parcel protection in the booking process the Defendant is not liable to settle the claim to the value and only to the parcel protection taken out. The Defendant shall rely on the Terms and Conditions of carriage in particular section 9. The Defendant understands that the contents have not be handled with due care and attention, which is not being disputed, however, they are disputing the amount they are liable to. They have requested mediation, I’m sure not least to drag the case out even longer, but I can see no benefit to me in this and so shall reject it. As ever, I’d welcome your thoughts guys. g59   
    • I doubt HMCTS holds any data on whether arrests by AEAs required police assistance.  They couldn't or wouldn't provide data on how many of warrants issued were successfully executed - just the number issued!  In my experience, arrest warrants whether with or without bail are [surprisingly] carried out with little or no fuss.  I think it's about how you treat people - a little respect and courtesy goes a long way. If you treat people badly they will react the same way. Occasions when police are called to assist are not common and, having undertaken or managed many thousands of these over the years, I can only recall a handful of occasions when police assistance was necessary. On one occasion, many years ago, I arrested and transported a man from Hampshire to Bristol prison on a committal warrant. It was just me and he was no problem. I didn't know the Bristol area (pre Sat Nav) and he was kind enough to provide directions - seems he knew the prison.  One young chap on another committal warrant jumped out of his back window and I had to chase him across several garden fences.  When he gave up (we were both knackered) I agreed to drive by his girlfriend's house to say farewell for a while.  I gave them a few moments and he was fine. The most difficult are breach warrants but mainly in locating the defendant as they don't want to go back to prison - can't blame them.  These were always dealt with by the police until the Access to Justice Act transferred responsibility from them to the magistrates' courts. The fact was the police did not actively pursue them and generally only executed them when they arrested someone for something else and found they had a breach warrant outstanding.  Hence the transfer of responsibility.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Me v Tesco/Incasso - Appeal in process


costa12
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4784 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 832
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

IMHO, the Judge is wrong.. For instance.. what if a company issues a DN on a Saturday or Sunday.. and they do.. cos the dates bear this out on occasion.. the debtor automatically loses 24 / 48 hours because it cannot go into the post until the Monday.

 

gh, in the first link they are allowing only one day for 1st class post ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

by first class post on 9 March 2001 might have been delivered in the ordinary course of post on 10 March 2001,

 

but they are saying S7 of the Interpretation Act applies

 

However the Interpretation Act 1978 extends to Northern Ireland and section 7 applies to the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

problem in that case was they were trying to argue 6 days for posting!! I think that is a little OTT lol

 

It is the PD rather than teh Interpretation Act itself which clarifies the timescales

Edited by gh2008

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, gh.. speed reading.. not a good thing when you are tired:!:

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, gh.. speed reading.. not a good thing when you are tired:!:

 

Tell me about it :D but I always much rather people question advice/info than blindly follow it.

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So in this case the DJ said that the 'clock starts ticking' from when the DN was put in the post, not when the DN was received.

 

What did the Judge mean by 'put in post'

 

Did the clock start ticking....

 

When it was printed off and placed in an envelope ready for collection by UK Mail?

 

When it was collected by UK Mail?

 

When UK Mail delivered it to Royal Mail?

 

Unless a receipt for 'Proof Of Posting' was obtained then what proof has the creditor that the D/N ever actually entered the postal system at all?

 

If this ruling is even considered then all those being pursued for debt could just as well argue that they sent cash in the post and that the creditor must have received it as it was definitely posted to them!

Link to post
Share on other sites

This just seems total madness and is completely contrary to the ideals and construction of the CCA.

 

... So, a few years ago you borrowed £5,000 from a financial institution who told you the APR is only 4%. Suddenly they start charging 27% APR and you complain. They don't answer your letters, so the only option appears to be to withhold your payments till it's sorted.

You request a copy of the agreement to check out what it said, only they send a reconstituted one which is useless to you, but yet they have legally complied. Now they default you, mark your credit file for you as a bad debtor. They harass and threaten you. They set DCA on to you and still ignore your letters. They eventually send you a Default Notice that when you receive it is dated 12 days previously. You complain. They take you to court. Someone swears blind it was posted 12 days previous to you receiving it (even though you know it's an impossibility) and the judge says "Well that's ok, then, case to the claimant".

 

What protection do we actually have?

 

I have a genuinely invalid default notice (IMHO) issued by Sainsburys and dated 3rd April, 2010. I kept it in the safe and I regarded it as pure gold. For anyone interested, the 3rd April was a Saturday! Not only was it a Saturday (and I don't for one minute believe they post out on Saturdays) but it was flamin' Easter Saturday too! I don't believe it even entered the Royalmail chain until at least Tuesday, 6th April.

However, if it ever gets to court and a Sainsburys stalwart swears "Sir, I know it was dated Easter Saturday, but I did pop it into the post box all the same, so the defendant can't really complain about it not arriving till Saturday 10th April - after all, it's not my fault it all happened slap bang in the middle of the longest bank holiday weekend of the year, so Sir, I put it to you that Easter Saturday is when the defendant's 14 clear days should be calculated from ...!"

  • Haha 1

< < < < If I can help I will and if I have helped please tip my scales. :|

Please keep this site alive by downloading the great new CAG toolbar - keeps all your subscribed threads in one easy to use place. http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/cag_plugin.php Use the search facility regularly and CAG generates much needed money!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Subbing. If an allowance for service isn't required why does virtually every DN (apart from mine and a lot of others with HSBC) include one? O the 6 DN's I've had to date all bar HSBC have included several days on top of the required 14, presumably to allow for service. They clearly believe it is required, otherwise why not just make it 14 days from the date of the letter.

 

How many first class post bank letters have you received the day after allegedly posting? Not many I'd bet. Mine all seem to arrive 5-7 days after the date on the letter. That would give barely a week to rectify.

Brooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooce's success's so far:

 

Capital One - 15% f & f saving £4,250

Barclaycard - 25% f & f saving £12,000

Blackhorse - reduced loan settlement saving £1,605

Cahoot - 15% f & f saving £2,740

MBNA - 20% f & f saving £26,800

Lloyds TSB 28% f & f saving £7,377

 

Total written off to date: £54,772!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with all your arguments. All I want to know is.......how can I Appeal? What is the procedure? And, here's the $64,000 question, what evidence can I base my Appeal on?

 

Costa

 

I did ask the Site Team to help with that EXACT question, however we still don't seem to have got any closer to answering it.

 

I'll have a dig around for you.

PMs and emails are being sent ....

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers GH. I've downloaded the N161 and EX340. So I've got the form and the leaflet on how to complete the N161. The fee is £120 and the Appeal will be to a Circuit Judge in the County Court. N161 seems pretty straight forward. Only sticking point is what to put as the evidence (which we already know:madgrin:). I must file and serve the N161 and supporting evidence by 13th October at the latest (21 days after Judgment). So we have some time to play with.

 

Costa

Link to post
Share on other sites

I *think* you will need the transcript as well. You have to pay for it to be transcribed. You may just need the 'bit at the end' where the DJ sums up and gives judgment

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Could this thread be moved to Legal Issues and the title changed to indicate the current situation i.e. something like ' Lost .... Appeal??' added to the end

Ta

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I *think* you will need the transcript as well. You have to pay for it to be transcribed. You may just need the 'bit at the end' where the DJ sums up and gives judgment

 

You are definitely going to need the transcript of the summing up and judgment. You need to know *exactly* the reasoning behind the decision as that is what you are appealing against.

 

You will have to show that the DJ made a mistake in Law.

The 2 documents I posted earlier both say that the Interpretation Act DOES apply to documents sent under the Consumer Credit Act, it would be useful to check out Goode to see what he has to say on the matter.

 

Can you get to the British Library? Have you got access to a friendly solicitor or barrister? might even be worth approaching them and asking how much to answer that question i.e. what has Goode got to say about teh service of DNs

 

sorry clutching at straws - you are going to be saying that the DJ made a 'mistake in Law. and as LiP that is quite difficult to prove :(

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

s176 service of documents states service may be by "an appropriate method". s189 defines "an appropriate method" as being by post or by electonic transmission.

 

S176A which deals with electronic transmission under the Act, states at subsection 2 that "A document transmitted in accordance with subsection (1) shall, unless the contrary is proved, be treated for the purposes of this Act, except section 69, as having been delivered on the working day immediately following the day on which it is transmitted.

 

s176A defines electronic transmission delivery timescales, Date of service for delivery by post is not defined in the Act - so s7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies for docs by post - as per Sir Roy Goode quoted in a previous post.

Link to post
Share on other sites

s176A defines electronic transmission delivery timescales, Date of service for delivery by post is not defined in the Act - so s7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies for docs by post - as per Sir Roy Goode quoted in a previous post.

 

Have you got an exact reference for that quote? We cannot even be sure it is from Goode as it is a typical CAG quote - with a attribute rather than a reference.

Not knocking CAG - far from it, but just quoting a bit of text and attributing it rather than referencing it won't stand up.

 

Especially as the Counsel for the other side said that Goode DID NOT comment on service of DNs .....

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

S176 defines the method for Service, it does not define Date of Service. Date of Service depends on the method used for service e.g fax, post, email as per s176A of the Act, and the Interpretation Act.

 

If a fax is transmitted to a number at a different location, clearly it will arrive quicker than a letter which has to go through delivery depots, and the postal system.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Costa - was any mention made of the PPI being *still* included in the agreement & prescribed terms when it was infact cancelled. What about the fact that the PPI repayment that was made was not refunded but credited to the account therefore changing the prescribed terms and making teh APR TCC etc all wrong

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

S176 defines the method for Service, it does not define Date of Service. Date of Service depends on the method used for service e.g fax, post, email as per s176A of the Act, and the Interpretation Act.

 

If a fax is transmitted to a number at a different location, clearly it will arrive quicker than a letter which has to go through delivery depots, and the postal system.

 

 

Ok, let's be very clear here.

 

The DJ ruled that the Interpretation Act DOES NOT APPLY TO SERVICE OF DNs

 

That is the issue.

If it did apply then the DJ agreed that the DN was in effective and Costa would be a happy chap

The other side argued it DID NOT apply and they won

 

We need PROPER EVIDENCE that teh Interpretation Act DOES apply to service of DNs

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The primary issue is whether s176 defines Date of Service as occuring the moment a letter is sent. It clearly doesn't. s176 states a documment may be served by an appropriate method.

 

Date of service depends therefore on the method used for service e.g. first class , second class post, fax, email etc. . Date of Service i.e. date of delivery is defined in s176A for electronic transmission as occuring on the next working day. Date of Service for post is not defined in s176 or s189 - so the Interpretation Act appliens which does defined the time at which service is effected.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is actually given in Consumer Credit Legislation, edited by Sir Roy Goode (published by Butterworths)

 

Where you say "It is actually given in Consumer Credit Legislation, edited by Sir Roy Goode" is that because you know it, or have been led to believe it.

 

I'm not having a go, but yes, we have a quote attributed to Goode which, if proven, will be *very* helpful

 

Just stating something without proof is what the last few pages are full of and is of little help to Costa.

 

Standing up in Court and saying cos Sagittarius said it was by Sir Roy Goode will not convince the Court

 

The primary issue is whether s176 defines Date of Service as occuring the moment a letter is sent. It clearly doesn't. s176 states a documment may be served by an appropriate method.

 

Date of service depends therefore on the method used for service e.g. first class , second class post, fax, email etc. . Date of Service i.e. date of delivery is defined in s176A for electronic transmission as occuring on the next working day. Date of Service for post is not defined in s176 or s189 - so the Interpretation Act appliens which does defined the time at which service is effected.

 

Yep, that was the *EXACT* argument used by Costa - it failed .....

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...