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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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CCJ over 6 years advice please


reverof
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Hi,

 

I’ve been looking at forums all day long regarding statute barred status and really need a tiny bit more help

 

I understand the process if its a defaulted account over 6 years UK that it will be statue barred status so hopefully some of my debts should fall into this arena.

 

My question is regarding CCJ's, I need to check but have 2 old ones over 6 years for sure from my stupid uni days - I knew nothing about finance and it was available everywhere - hell I didn’t even know I had to make monthly payments at that time!

 

If anyone would be so kind to help. Been a rollercoaster of emotions for me today thinking I may have light at the end of the tunnel then realising CCJs are slightly different :

 

- I understand they fall off your credit report once 6 years 1 month is up ? Does this mean my credit rating will improve? (unless they put them back on)

 

- What I cant seem to find is how likely they are to be reapplied as from what I’ve read if its unsatisfied it does come off after 6 years but can be applied back on if DCA's go back to court - does anyone have experience of this?

 

- Another post touched on the fact that if its been passed around to other DCA's they are less likely to push for another CCJ due to needing original court paperwork?

 

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated its because of forums like this us as consumers get some power and I’ve got my fingers crossed for some good news. Thanks so much in advance for helping.

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Hi, if you have unacknowledged debts over 6 years old they are statute barred and as such unenforceable in Law and should also dissapear from your Credit File.

In the unlikely event of another DCA chasing the debt you should send them a letter requesting a True copy of the original CCA which probably doesn't exist any more.

If you need a letter you will find one in the template section on the site, just follow the instructions when you do it and remember all the rules.

 

1. All communications in writing - No telephone.

2. Send all communication by Recorded Delivery.

3. Always print your name - Never Sign (or use a signature diff than you usually do)

 

They have 12 + 2 days to comply with your request if they dont, no case to answer.

If you need more help keep posting and help will follow.

 

B

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Hi, if you have unacknowledged debts over 6 years old they are statute barred and as such unenforceable in Law and should also dissapear from your Credit File.

In the unlikely event of another DCA chasing the debt you should send them a letter requesting a True copy of the original CCA which probably doesn't exist any more.

If you need a letter you will find one in the template section on the site, just follow the instructions when you do it and remember all the rules.

 

 

B

 

 

Thankyou so much for the reply really apprecaited.

 

I understood most of this orginally but I was under the impression CCJs (unpaid) are not statute barred?

 

This is the main area I couldnt find info on - maybe you could shed some light on this. Want to know more about chance of them re-applying the CCJ if unpaid?

 

Youve also made me think are you saying to send out the 12+2 etc letters if they try to reapply it as they may not have the required credit agreement anymore as debt has been passed around?

 

Thanks again to anyone that can help

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OK, Once a CCJ has been issued then any question of an enforceable CCA is completely irrelevant, so it is completely useless asking for a CCA once a CCJ has been granted.

 

Any entry on your credit file, will automatically drop off after 6 years.

Once you have been granted a CCJ then the only real way of getting it removed is to pay, failure to do so can result in bailiffs etc.

Are you saying that you were unaware of the CCJ being issued? Did you fail to defend it in Court?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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What i mean is, a CCJ will no longer appear on your Credit File after 6 years. I had 2 and they dissapeared.

It is the debt that is SB after 6 years and because it is unlikekely another DCA will try to pusue it, but you can never be sure with them.

Some dimwit of a firm may try your ignorance of the Law to make you pay and if they do send them an appropriate letter from the Templates on this site in response to whatever they send to you.

Because of the time lapse it is most unlikely the original is available and for them to re-apply the CCJ they will need all the original docs.

If I have been helpful please tickle my scales or better still contribute to CAG.

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Thankyou for you advice boswell and Bazakoo.

 

The CCJ to be tottally honest were on before I knew about it as I was away at uni and the letters came home address. It happened before I even had chance to read thier letters - I accept I am responsible for this to some degree.

 

So to confirm : The CCJ drops off after 6 years, the debt then carries on which is why you say it is statute barred (wierd because i thought CCJ debts didnt fall under SB?)

 

In terms of reapplying CCJ this is a low possibility if its been passed around because of time lapse they may not have original documents in order to apply for CCJ again?

 

So the debt carries on Statute barred status - if i receive any letters from DCAs the satndard statute barred letters are the ones I need not the 12+2+30 day ones?

 

So with the usual SB threads where (non-CCJ) 6 year period is up they cant apply a CCJ so you simply tell them so.

In cases like mine where its a unpaid CCJ the difference is that the CCJ can possibly be reapplied (but not likely after 6 years)?

 

In both cases the debt goes on under SB status?

 

Sorry for all the questions but im sure this will help some others out, been online for around 12 hours today finding out all the info and not found the great insight you kind people are giving.

 

 

edit: just seen your link boswell philapines but its interesting. The nets wierd really ive read so many threads and majority today made me feel depressed as they never mentioned the debt goes on under SB - they just said CCJ not covered and didnt expand.

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Hi, did you read post 6 and the link i attached?

 

 

Yeah i actually edited my post to let you know ;)

 

Wierdly enough the last post on that thread says the same as i read elsewhere - no the debt is not SB and then poster talks about the fact debt agencies may not know about the CCJ - what if they do?

 

If you could extend your kindness to confirming my previous post I can rest at ease tonight and stop bothering you all :oops:

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The CCJ will dissapear after 6 years.

For it to be re-applied to your CF it will have to be proved to be a debt that is still pending, ie, under 6 years old. As it is over that time,the debt not the CCJ, is SB.

I cant see how it can be re-applied to your CF twice if the debt is SB.

It has probably been written off by the Lender anyway as unenforceable and will cost another DCA money and time to try to re-apply it knowing it is SB.

Has anyone contacted you about the debt and have you checked your CF?

If I have been helpful please tickle my scales or better still contribute to CAG.

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Thanks again - I am in process of getting it online via Trust Online (as i believe they wont notify DCA's of search). Im pretty sure the CCJs were back from 2002/2003 but of course will check it out by tommorrow.

 

I then will marry this up with the letters I have to see which are over 6y.

 

I would be the happiest guy alive if they do fall off and not reapplied, I can then get work (as financial institutions offer good pay for what I do) and pay it off.

 

Thanks so much for your help Boswell much apprecaited will report back when ive checked it out tommorrow

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reverof, records of CCJs disappear from all official records (including Trust Online) after six years. In effect you don't have the CCJ anymore - it has disappeared in a figurative puff of smoke.

 

If a creditor or debt collecting agency tried to enforce repayment of the debt after the six years they would need need to obtain permission from the court and be able to show good cause why they didn't attempt to collect within the six year time frame.

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I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

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Thanks Palomino Have pmed you - but would just like to say I am not proud of these issues I have been a real tough few years for me as im sure some of you users on this forum have had . Really appreciate all the help especially for a new poster like me full credit to the community for that. I will be checking my credit file with Trust Online shortly and will post back.

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It appears you are now pretty much sorted with this?

There's a few links here that you might like to read also.

Legal Issues Explained - County Court Judgements

 

Removal of CCJ's - A guide to CCJ Removal

 

The second one won't really be relevant as it is over 6 years, but it's food for thought if anyone else is in the same situation.

 

Boo;)

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Those old ccj's don't come under the statute of limitations , they come under court cpr rules to be (re) inforced . I'm in the same position as you . Old (over 6 year ) CCJ's from Uni days that seem to be forgotten about . I kind of think of these ccj's also in the same light as most people here look on the absence of a true copy of their credit agreement . If they don't have the original court documents anymore , and going by the way they tend to lose cca's thats a distinct possibility , then the ccj doesn't exist either in any enforceable sense . But as mentioned , over 6 years and they'll need to go to the court for permission and with a good reason.

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It shouldn't because a personal search on your Credit file is only visable to you and not others even if they perfom a search on your file. But for some time now many are of the opinion that the CRA's are exchanging information with the DCA's.

 

A whistleblower could prove this as certain CRA files would be "flaged" IF information was being shared.

Edited by 247orbital
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It shouldn't because a personal search on your Credit file is only visable to you and not others even if they perfom a search on your file. But for some time now many are of the opinion that the CRA's are exchanging information with the CRA's.

 

A whistleblower could prove this as certain CRA files would be "flaged" IF information was being shared.

 

Sorry... but you have a lot to learn about how these industries work. One of the CRA's owns at least one of the well-known DCAs on here and as you become more familiar with the industry, you'll realise that there are loads of incestuous links between the lot of them.

 

Whistle-blowing has already been done and has no effect at all....

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Hi all,

 

Thanks for all the replies - ive tried to get the details and found that they are also registerd against an old address - no wonder I got the letters alot later they must have been sent to our old family home!

 

Also wierd you should say some are linked I used the Trust One link which I believe was safe - tried using Equifax and got message online to say I have to phone them up witha reference number for some final questions - is this normal? My brother used his card details to pay for free trial for me , maybe thats why?

 

Thanks again all

Edited by reverof
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hi reverof

 

post no 12 answers your questions correctly,

 

 

 

 

if theplaintiff hasn't physically got his copy of the ccj he cant do anything and the court certainly won't have a copy

 

nothing in this life is certain but it is highly unlikely that the creditor will pursue this now

 

I would let sleeping dogs lie

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  • 3 years later...
Be very careful when requesting your credit file.... as it often tips various DCAs off to your new whereabouts.

 

If no-one is currently chasing you, why worry about it anyway?

 

This is quite frightening - just looked at my credit file via equifax - will post if I receive any further contact from DCA - I've heard nothing for years - discovered 'default date goes back to 2008 so I'm wondering if it will tickle anything.

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