Me v Cabot

[appo0712]

Below is the responce to my CRP request, Exhibit "a" is my applecation form as posted in previous post. Ehibit "b" is a copy repesentation of Prescribed T&C. Exhibit "c" redacted copy of Cabot's action history. Ehibit "d" representation of notice os assignment. Exibit "e" redacted copy that constitutes such a certitficate, in the course of business. exhibit "f" copies of statements of account. Exhibit "g" copy of claimant's statement of account.

Most of which have been posted in past posts, if you want my to post any of the others let me know and i'll scan them.

 

What i neen to know is how to get Morgan Sols to repledge the POC's and how to ask for another 28 day extention.

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/appo66/cabot/Morgan/CCI09052010_00005.jpg

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/appo66/cabot/Morgan/CCI09052010_00003.jpg

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/appo66/cabot/Morgan/CCI09052010_00006.jpg

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/appo66/cabot/Morgan/CCI09052010_00007.jpg

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/appo66/cabot/Morgan/CCI09052010_00008.jpg

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/appo66/cabot/Morgan/CCI09052010_00009.jpg

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/appo66/cabot/Morgan/CCI09052010_00010.jpg

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/appo66/cabot/Morgan/CCI09052010_00011.jpg

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/appo66/cabot/Morgan/CCI09052010_00012.jpg

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/appo66/cabot/Morgan/CCI09052010_00013.jpg

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/appo66/cabot/Morgan/CCI09052010_00014-1.jpg

[volvo]

Request extension of time using CPR15.5 for 28 day extension.

 

VOLVO

[The_Grumlin]

First problem page 2, para 1.3 very pee poor for solicitors. It should be law of property 1925 section 196 for notices of assignment. Nothing to do with CCA1974. Muppets.

[The_Grumlin]

Plus you have left your address in that para.

[The_Grumlin]

So they haven't supplied a DN? I see they claim they don't need one? Are they claiming the whole balance or just the arrears?

[appo0712]

Thanks for the reply, I've removed the address.

They haven't supplied any DN's or a TN, Their POC states " The Caiment is the assignee if the debt

Credit Card Ref xxxxxxxxxx

Notice of assignment having been given to the Defendent in writing. Dispite demands for payment, £xxxxxx remains due.

The Caiment claims £xxxxx + interest under s.69 county court Act 1984 & costs".

 

the amount that they are claiming is the full balance + £2K of their charges.

 

The Cridit Card Ref is Cabots account ref No.

 

Do i need to get them to repladge the POC? and if so how.

Edited May 10, 2010 by appo0712

[cups]

Hi

 

They did this to me but for another creditor, they went to court for the initial hearing and were told by the DJ that thay needed to supply a fully particularised POC. I now have this but it is still wrong and has no DN or TN.

I think Cabot thinks they have found a way around the legislation and is failing now to supplfaulty DN's that have ben issued before they got involved. They were told by my DJ that they req'd a DN but they have still ignored it.

 

Cups

[appo0712]

Update: Acknowledgement receipt for my defence received on 12th May, from Hmcs.

Also received the aq which has to be completed on or before 14 June (case transfered to my local CC)

 

I found some examples on completing the aq, but there a couple of issues that still unclear, these are:

"Without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case"

They have refused to send me the docs that was requested by CPR 31.14 as their POC's didn't state them, I also used CPR 18 and so supplied me with the same application form and docs as show in my past posts. The question i have is can i still use the paragraph as quoted.

The other question is can i also use this

"The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order file and serve the following:

* Copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations, which the claimant seeks to rely upon. The original documents must be brought to the hearing.

* Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 andConsumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended

* Document, contract or deed of assignment

* Notice of assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

* Copies of any statement or other document relied upon

 

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

The Defendant shall, in response, file and serve the following

 

* An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant"

 

[DonkeyB]

Can I direct you to this link, featuring a document written by Cabot? In it, Uncle Glen claims Cabot are NOT creditors as defined by the CCA.

 

So how can they claim, in their WS, to be a creditor who is only suing for the arrears?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/158487-words-glen-crawford-md.html

[DonkeyB]

If the OC did not at any time demand the whole amount as arrears, then it is fair to conclude that the reference to "Creditor" must refer to Cabot.

 

I'm sure that if Cabot are demanding arrears, then they are claiming the account has not been terminated? They appear to be somewhat confused.

 

Are they saying that a DN was NOT issued by the OC? It would be marvellous if you could find one - have you done a SAR to the original creditor to try and uncover one?

 

If a DN was not issued, and the account not terminated, that makes it a running account - and makes Cabot the creditor. Wish they'd make their minds up.

[appo0712]

Thanks Donkey,

 

I'm not sure if the OC me a termination notice, I'll send a SAR to them and hopefully get something from them before the CC case date; Having said that, from what Cabots's sols have sent me under the heading "Account Sales Agreement" it state that all the accounts within the agreement are: Charged-off post two agencies, where barclay's internal process of 180 days and two external collection agents of 90 days each have been exhausted, It also states that upon the request documentation will be supplied. So cabot should be able to access all documents regarding the account.

[Hadituptohere]

Creditor must have the rights and duties under CC74 s189 not just the rights, if cabots DOA only assigns the rights then they are unable to enforce

 

Hadituptohere

[DonkeyB]

Creditor must have the rights and duties under CC74 s189 not just the rights, if cabots DOA only assigns the rights then they are unable to enforce

 

Hadituptohere

 

I think they can if the original creditor is joined in the action.

[DonkeyB]

... which is unlikely. Banks don't like to be seen doing any dirty work, like litigation - not good for their image, is it?

[Hadituptohere]

True Donkey

 

But just going of my copy of DOA received from morgans/cabot it clearly states cabot as having the rights but not duties therefore cabot cannot enforce the agreement and have no right to claim in court.

 

Thought it might be useful..

 

Hadituptohere

[appo0712]

Received letter from local CC, stating Claiment shall within 14 days serve:

 

True copies of the original Credit Agreement and docs whichcomplies with CCA 1974.

 

Default notice complient with s87 of CCA 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termonation Notices) Reg 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended.

 

Docs, contracts or deeds of assignment.

 

Notice of assignment with proof, complient of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

Copies of statment or other docs relied upon.

 

List for allocation - direction hearing to be heard in August, estimated time 15 mins ( I'm not sure about this step) any help please?

 

Morgan Sols set me the the same docs as in my post #74

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2918143.html

 

Along with their cover letter: "We sent this same responce to in May, which was over a month prior to filing of your AQ. The Claiment contends that the points contained in the Draft Order which you submitted to the court had already been sufficiently answered."

 

I'm not sure of the next move to make, as I will have to build my defence upon the docs that they have sent.

[Hadituptohere]

Hi apppo

 

morgans have been been ordered by the court to produce these documents, if these documents havent been supplied and this is the only responce your going to get from morgans then this leaves the door wide open for you to apply for the case to be struck out due to no compliance after the 14 days allowed, looking good

 

Hadituptohere

[appo0712]

Thanks Hadit,

 

Morgans are using the Application form as key evidence, The copies of statments are not easy legible. They also are insisting that they do not need to comply with the s77 / s78 request, nor do they need to supply the default / termination notices as they are only collecting the arrears, although the ballance is for the full amount.

 

Do I need to contact Morgans or just wait for the 14 day deadline to pass?

 

Copiy of App- form http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2595176.html

[Hadituptohere]

Theres no need for you to contact cabot/morgans, if you dont receive the documents after the 14 days allow a couple of days then contact the courts case manager and see if theve received anything, if not ask for their advise, you may then need to apply for a strike out check out my thread and at thread 271 which Meldrew kindly advised

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/127059-hadituptohere-cabot-case-struck-14.html

 

Hadituptohere

[ohm]

Section 59 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that application forms are not binding.

I joined yesterday and not sure how to use the Forum.I would like to bring the followig new tactic used by Cabot to everybody's attention and look forward to receiving members views/advise/suggestions. Cabot have filed a case against me as assignee of debts from Providian & Barclaycard.I requested true signed copies of agreements under CCA 1974-paid £1 fee.They sent me one from Providian-acopy of a 'Reply Card' card saying 'Please reply by 15th Dec 2000'-it has my signature and dated 29 Nov 2000.No terms & Conditions.Another separate copy headed 'Financial And Related Conditions' which may be copy from any year-no link between the two.Willing to provide (not obliged as they are assignee) Barclaycard Credit Agreement when a copy is provided by the Assignor.My cheque was returned and they have stated that.

'You will observe that section 77 and 78 CCA74 states that ''The Creditor under a regulated agreement...shall give the debtor'' cetain documents.The Claimant also submits that it is an assignee of the contractual benefits of the agreement.Accordingly Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd(''Cabot UK'') is not the Creditor for the purpose of the CCA74 as defined by Section 189 of the CCA74.

The CCA states that the Creditoris ''the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law,and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement,includes the prospective creditor'' The Claimant in this case is the Assignee of the contractual benefits of the Credit Agreement and the Judgement.The contractual liabilities and the burdens of the Credit Agreement have not been assigned.The Claimants position is that as a matter of contract law,an assignment transfer the rights or benefits but does not relieve the Assignor of duties or burdons of liabilities to the other contacting party or entitle that party to enforce such duties or burdens of liabilities against the assignne of the debt.In the House Of Lords case of Linden Gardens Trust Ltd v Lenesta Sludge Disposals Ltd (1994) 1 AC 85,Lord Brown-Wilkinson stated that ''It is trite law that it is, in any event, impossible to assign ''the contact'' as a whole,i.e.including both burden and benefit.The burden of a contract can never be assigned without the concent of the other party to the contract...''Therefore, it is submitted that the claimant is an assignee and has not been assigned the burden or the liability of the the Credit Agreement.Therefore the Claimant is not bound by Section 77 or 78 CCA74 requests.

As we the Claimant is not the Creditor for the purpose of the CCA74, we return your cheque to you.

I have filed my Defence saying that there is no valid agreement and no monies are due to Cabot.

1)The Claimant has not provided true copy of agreement fully compliant with all the regulations made under the provisions CCA 1974.Proof Required.

2)No Statement of Accounts

3)No Default Notice from Cabot

4)No Notice of Assignment etc total claim £20645.62

Allocation Questionnare to be filed by 18/7/10.

Any advise will be appreciated.

Thanks

Ohm

[Hadituptohere]

ohm some words from pt that goes against cabots claims

 

'In my opinion, what cabot are suggesting is fiction, as if what they say is correct, Wilson v FCT would never have happened'

 

Hadituptohere

[appo0712]

It is a sad state of affairs, when they resort to this, even more so as their methods are too feeble and predictable. One would think that DCA’s have the knowledge and a full understanding of the CCA act, without having to troll through forums in search of answers to aid them in their profession.

[cups]

You are right, buit Cabot's rep told me that my defence and argument was rubbish because it was from the internet!!

 

They too can app use the internt whn it suits them!

[appo0712]

Cabots' sols time as expired I'v spoke to the CC this morning and no doc's have been sent to there. As it stands the key doc's that the CC ordered them to send have not been sent. Margans main argument will be that they don't need to.

 

CC advised me to point this out at the hearing.

I'm not 100% sure on what to base my defence should I work on their lack of cooperation regarding them not sending the doc's that the CC ordered or should I go towards the fact that they have no right to take the case to CC.

[Hadituptohere]

Hi appo

 

List for allocation - direction hearing to be heard in August, estimated time 15 mins ( I'm not sure about this step) any help please?

 

Id say if they havent complied with Courts Directions then this does need bringing to their attention, Dont know if youre better filling an application or a skeleton argument for the direction hearing, im sure others will pop in and advise

 

Hadituptohere