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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Capone/cabot v OH (disputed Acc)


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calm down dear calm down (as michael winner says). Repeat after me :- Never speak to these morons on the phone! Seriously tho' I will never speak to them, only answered the phone yesterday as I wanted to confirm "unavailable - out of area was cap1. Haven't done complaint letter2 yet, bit shellshocked from the post - complete waste of time trying to reason with them, just don't know which letter to write first (absolutely disgusted with their 'holyer than thuo attitude" really hope they get their fingers burnt with this banking business, will scan default notice in the morning hopefully. How the hell can they boast that they help people in times of difficulties.

 

Really wish I didnt sign my letters to them - 'with love and best wishes - beachy'

 

Anyway your rant is forgiven and that was mine over for tonight.

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I do find it amazing that you can't reason with them, but they really only want one thing- all of our money (and tonnes we don't have). Anything else apart from their little timetable of default, harass and try to farm out to A N Other DCA, is immaterial to them.

 

I'm back to hello, note date and time, goodbye. I think I was convinced they couldn't bother me anymore. Hubris.

Nationwide-A&L-Halifax 1-Student Loans Company-NatWest-Virgin Media-Link-Capital One ALL WON!

Thames Credit -statute barred sent 13/11/08

BCW- prove debt letter- 14/08/08

Apex- CCA 14/08/08

Redcats UK- SAR 14/04/09

Call Serve- CCA 14/08/08

Littlewoods- no CCA letter 03/09/08- Lowells now

Wescot- CCA 19/9/08

Capital One/Debitas- now with Lowells

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. All information has been obtained from this site. If you are unsure, please seek professional advice. .

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ditto

 

Frightened me to death this morning openin their letter, but the more I think about it Id take great pleasure in standing before a judge with my 'evidence' and shaming the a**holes.

 

Back to work tonight, Exeter - Birmingham and back, feelin a lot better but, like you, BLOODY ANGRY !

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Safe driving and no road rage!

Nationwide-A&L-Halifax 1-Student Loans Company-NatWest-Virgin Media-Link-Capital One ALL WON!

Thames Credit -statute barred sent 13/11/08

BCW- prove debt letter- 14/08/08

Apex- CCA 14/08/08

Redcats UK- SAR 14/04/09

Call Serve- CCA 14/08/08

Littlewoods- no CCA letter 03/09/08- Lowells now

Wescot- CCA 19/9/08

Capital One/Debitas- now with Lowells

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. All information has been obtained from this site. If you are unsure, please seek professional advice. .

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Here is the default notice received from cap1, have been trying to set up pro rata payment plan with help from NDL, however, cap1 WILL NOT entertain unless bank statements, wage slips etc etc. are sent to them - flatly refuse to bow down to them - now this. Currently have telephone harrassment complaint with TS & OFT + account in dispute.

 

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I would- together with a copy of the letter from the OFT- was it a letter or a phone call?

 

I've spent today writing letters, though my two big ones to Cap are getting done over the weekend. I've sent off seven recorded delivery already today- well I got a bank charge refunded from Natwest, so I'm putting the money to good use on postal orders and recorded deliveries!

 

I've now been ordered to step away from the computer and watch some TV by the husband. :)

Nationwide-A&L-Halifax 1-Student Loans Company-NatWest-Virgin Media-Link-Capital One ALL WON!

Thames Credit -statute barred sent 13/11/08

BCW- prove debt letter- 14/08/08

Apex- CCA 14/08/08

Redcats UK- SAR 14/04/09

Call Serve- CCA 14/08/08

Littlewoods- no CCA letter 03/09/08- Lowells now

Wescot- CCA 19/9/08

Capital One/Debitas- now with Lowells

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. All information has been obtained from this site. If you are unsure, please seek professional advice. .

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When I make a new post to this thread it doesn't appear in the new posts index, thought I'd been sent to 'Coventry' apart from your replies.

 

Have also decided, for good measure, to go the route you suggested in your PM, though can't get appointment for over a week.

 

Had interview over the phone by TS yesterday, were just going to log it as a complaint until I was asked if I had proof that phone calls would continue my reply was "I have in my hand a signed letter .........." well you know the rest, let's just say the wheels are now well & truelly turning.

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That's right, hit them on all imaginable sides. This really is going to work out, Beachcomber. You are doing all you can possibly do and (if everything works out fully) Capital One will end up with a VERY public, VERY bloody nose.

 

I hope you are feeling better and a week for an appointment isn't really that bad, apart from when the phone is going morning, noon and night!

Nationwide-A&L-Halifax 1-Student Loans Company-NatWest-Virgin Media-Link-Capital One ALL WON!

Thames Credit -statute barred sent 13/11/08

BCW- prove debt letter- 14/08/08

Apex- CCA 14/08/08

Redcats UK- SAR 14/04/09

Call Serve- CCA 14/08/08

Littlewoods- no CCA letter 03/09/08- Lowells now

Wescot- CCA 19/9/08

Capital One/Debitas- now with Lowells

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. All information has been obtained from this site. If you are unsure, please seek professional advice. .

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could you just briefly let me know which organisations you complained to about Capital One to and about which issues - I'm getting a bit confused who responsible for what.

 

I have a complaint with FOS regarding penalty charges and phone calls but am about to be defaulted thanks to FOS it seems!!

 

So who else do I complaint to about Capital One account being 'in dispute' and they threaten / about to default me? You seem to have gone to Trading Standards? - are they any good.. and what aspects can they investigate. You also mention OFT? Is there any use complaining to ICO about incorrect default / negative notes to credit agencies by Capital One?

 

Good luck! Am very interested to know which of the organisations seem to be having an effect with assisting you with Capital One issues as my FOS adjudicator was apparantly the one who asked Capital One to send me those income / expenditure forms and if not sent back Capital One will default me!! Thanks FOS........ :(

 

(see thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/160716-capital-one-fos-argh.html)

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If their gonna default you they will no matter what. They defaulted me while in dispute and passed it to debitas, however, a strongly worded letter to them sent them back under their stone where they belong.

 

My wife has been also defaulted while account is in dispute, in both cases interest and charges are still being applied to the accounts. My complaint is with reference to telephone harrassment (currently 166 calls in 45 days) initially I contacted TS who then passed it to OFT who stated that cap1 are committing an offence of telephone harrassment as we have written to them 5 times to comm. in writing only + letter of complaint re. pro rata payments, default while in dispute & calls, the signed letter received back merely admits calls made & statement that they will continue to make them until we provide personal docs. that they know full well they are not entitled to have. Since letter of complaint daily calls have actually increased.

 

Been interviewed over the phone by regional office OFT whose initally response was to find some other way of letting Cap1 see proof of 'hardship' until I mentioned 'the letter' complaint now passed to area TS who have also interviewed me and will be liasing with Northampton TS regarding cap1.

 

* I urge anyone who has/is being harrassed by cap1 to make a complaint to TS as I was told that the more complaints received by TS will greatly speed up cap1 being told to get their act together.

 

Regarding FOS I have not had any dealings with them, as yet, however by what I have read on CAG they seem pretty weak in assisting the consumer.

 

All I can honestly say is thank you CAG & members for all your help & advice thus far - especially emmaf01 whose regular contact has stopped me 'goin over the top' had I not found CAG I dread to think what I would have done. Cp1 are absolute sh*ts to deal with, they abide by one law - THEIRS.

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Not meaning to intrude but did you use the OFT online complaints form to fill in... and did you go to TS separately of the OFT or did they link up somehow. As Debitas is in-house Capital One debt collectors how did you get them to shift debt back to Capital One (you mention a letter - any chance of a peek for future reference?)

 

Basically Capital One have stopped replying to any of my letters - so what can one do with these. Terrible company.

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I'm definitely at the "s*d Cap1" stage myself. I still haven't written another letter- doing it tomorrow as I can't afford special delivery until Wednesday! At least I'm pretty certain what I am going to write now, after some serious weekend reading.

 

Capital One have ignored my letters, denying they ever got there even though Royal Mail show a signature. I'm waiting for information on who cashed the postal order.

Nationwide-A&L-Halifax 1-Student Loans Company-NatWest-Virgin Media-Link-Capital One ALL WON!

Thames Credit -statute barred sent 13/11/08

BCW- prove debt letter- 14/08/08

Apex- CCA 14/08/08

Redcats UK- SAR 14/04/09

Call Serve- CCA 14/08/08

Littlewoods- no CCA letter 03/09/08- Lowells now

Wescot- CCA 19/9/08

Capital One/Debitas- now with Lowells

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. All information has been obtained from this site. If you are unsure, please seek professional advice. .

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Hi willtheywontthey, I initally phoned Trading Standards and was transferred to OFT where I made my complaint about telephone harrassment, as I told them I have a signed letter admitting that cap1 see no harm in telephoning and stating that they will continue to do so (calls have actually doubled since my complaint letter to cap1), OFT took a brief statement and gave me a complaint reference number. A few days later I received a call from TS as the OFT had contacted them ref. my complaint, they are currently investigating, however due to the signed letter and my log of calls cap1 will have to answer TS - so its a case of watch this space at the moment.

 

Regarding Debitas, they wrote to me saying pay up in 3 days or else - I swiftly wrote back telling them that the account is in dispute and what are they doing interferring (used a letter template from this forum with a little editing) - aint heard anything more from them since.

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Hi Emma, seeing cap1 seem to like the words 'this is our final response' I decided to give them MY final response regarding calls. In the unlikely event that TS cant sort them out it will be a case of contacting a man who can (re your PM), have read the stories and pretty sure he will jump at this one.

 

Seven calls today, mr 'unavailable - out of area' has started making silent calls to us now, pick up the phone to say bog off and there's no one there - annoying, but more power to the cause.

 

They have failed to provide all information regarding SAR, one months statement is missing and there are a lot of manual transactions that should have been made (ie letters we have sent) that have been excluded.

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Wednesday is my next day to send off a big batch of letters- 3 to Cap1 I fear plus other SARs. It will cost a fortune but will pay for itself in the long run!

 

Cap1 were one statement short in my husband's SAR- funnily enough one which had two charges on it. Good job we had the original for that month!

 

I just don't trust them with anything anymore.

Nationwide-A&L-Halifax 1-Student Loans Company-NatWest-Virgin Media-Link-Capital One ALL WON!

Thames Credit -statute barred sent 13/11/08

BCW- prove debt letter- 14/08/08

Apex- CCA 14/08/08

Redcats UK- SAR 14/04/09

Call Serve- CCA 14/08/08

Littlewoods- no CCA letter 03/09/08- Lowells now

Wescot- CCA 19/9/08

Capital One/Debitas- now with Lowells

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. All information has been obtained from this site. If you are unsure, please seek professional advice. .

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Does it include the prescribed terms? Is at actually a Consumer Credit Agreement or an application under the Consumer Credit Act?

Nationwide-A&L-Halifax 1-Student Loans Company-NatWest-Virgin Media-Link-Capital One ALL WON!

Thames Credit -statute barred sent 13/11/08

BCW- prove debt letter- 14/08/08

Apex- CCA 14/08/08

Redcats UK- SAR 14/04/09

Call Serve- CCA 14/08/08

Littlewoods- no CCA letter 03/09/08- Lowells now

Wescot- CCA 19/9/08

Capital One/Debitas- now with Lowells

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. All information has been obtained from this site. If you are unsure, please seek professional advice. .

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Yes, it does mention "application for credit" but it is also clearly marked as an Agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. There is a 2nd photocopied page also marked as an Agreement which contains the prescribed terms. I have the exact same two documents sent to me by Cap1. I have posted here already that if the 2nd photocopied page is on the back of the original signature page (or the creditor can prove to the Court that it somehow clearly links to the signature page) then it is likely to be enforceable.

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Have you checked the charges amounts- unfortunately the documents are no longer up on this thread to look at, so I can't.

 

And are they up on your thread, John?

Nationwide-A&L-Halifax 1-Student Loans Company-NatWest-Virgin Media-Link-Capital One ALL WON!

Thames Credit -statute barred sent 13/11/08

BCW- prove debt letter- 14/08/08

Apex- CCA 14/08/08

Redcats UK- SAR 14/04/09

Call Serve- CCA 14/08/08

Littlewoods- no CCA letter 03/09/08- Lowells now

Wescot- CCA 19/9/08

Capital One/Debitas- now with Lowells

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. All information has been obtained from this site. If you are unsure, please seek professional advice. .

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Well thats bit of a bummer ! Someone had to pour water on my fire.

 

Six say its not enforceable, one says it is.

 

"No prescribed terms, not list of penalty charges,

 

"Please supply me with ......"

 

"If your application is successful ......."

 

The fight continues !

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