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    • Received a final demand today Final demand.pdf
    • Here is my final draft: I, XXXXXX, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in the claim and further to my set aside application dated 1 November 2022. The claimants witness statement confirms that it mostly relies on hearsay evidence as confirmed by the drafts in person in the opening paragraph. It is my understanding they must serve notice to any hearsay evidence pursuant to CPR 33.2(1)(B) (notice of intention to rely on hearsay evidence) and Section 2 (1) (A) of the Civil Evidence Act.   1.        The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2 February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None of these documents were received by the court nor the defendant by that date.   2.        I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already wrote off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimants witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment.   As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights.  This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information).  The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party.   3.        The alleged letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 was served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018, no effort was made to ascertain my correct address.  I have attached a copy of my tenancy agreement which is marked ‘Appendix 1’ and shows I was residing at a difference address as of 11 December 2018 and was therefore not at the service address at the time the proceedings were served.  I have also attached an email from my solicitors to the Claimants solicitors dated 14 July 2022 which was sent to them requesting that they disclose the trace of evidence they utilised prior to issuing the proceedings against me.  This is marked ‘Appendix 2’.  The claimants solicitors did not provide me with these documents.   4.        Under The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior to and including ,The Pre action Protocol letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claim form dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018.   5.        I became aware of original Judgement following a routine credit check on or around 14th September 2020.   6.        Upon the discovery of the Judgement debt, I made immediate contact with the Court and the Claimant Solicitors, putting them on notice that I was making investigations in relation to the Judgement debt as it was not familiar to me.  I asked them to provide me with a copy of the original loan agreement but this was not provided to me.   The correspondence to the Claimant Solicotors is attached and marked ‘Appendix 3’   7.        I then sent a Data Subject Access Request to Barclays but no agreement was provided. Details the timeline of communication between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 4’and the copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 5’.   8.        The claimant relies upon and exhibits a reconstituted version of the alleged agreement.   It is again denied that I have ever entered into an agreement with Barclaycard on or around 2000.  It is admitted that I did hold other credit agreements with other creditors and as such should this be a debt that was assigned to Barclaycard from another brand therefore the reconstituted agreement disclosed is invalid being pre April 2007 and not legally enforceable pursuant to HH Judge Waksman in Carey v HSBC 2009 EWHC3417.  Details of this are attached and marked ‘Appendix 6’.   The original credit agreement must be provided along with any reconstituted version on a modified credit agreement and must contain the names and address of debtor and creditor, agreement number and cancelation clause.   9.        Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim relies upon and not try to mislead the court.   10.   As per CPR 1.4(2)(a) the court encourages parties to cooperate with each other in the conduct of proceedings in order to try and save time and costs for the parties and to also save the time and resources of the court however, despite vast attempts at mediation the claimants have been most unreasonable and have remained unwilling to mediate. Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the original assigned agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. Signed                 ………………………………………………….. Name                  XXXX Date                     30 April 2024
    • Only trying to help.  Ain't being nasty.  Some
    • Hi folks, I've just found previous documentation. I thought it had gone missing. I'd forgotten that I did appeal it through POPLA but I can't find the thread on here that, I assume, I posted for help. Appeal letter is dated 27/10/2020 with a rejection. I genuinely had forgotten about this so apologies for misleading you. A lot has happened in the years since the ticket was issued. We closed down a couple of businesses and moved to the opposite end of the country to retire. The documents I have are scanned copies. I no longer have the originals. The NTK is also in there. If there's anything you'd like to see, please let me know and I'll post them, although it probably won't be until tomorrow now, but I'll be looking in on this page tonight. Thank you for the responses so far
    • Hello! After emailing them I received this reply:   I have drafted the following, please would you be able to comment as to if you think it is correct/sufficient? "Thank you for your email.   Thanks you for confirming that the vehicle does not have these features as stated in the advertisement.    I am sure you are aware that the Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides the short term right to reject within 30 days. Statutory rights cannot be taken away from a consumer, and any attempt to do so is illegal.   Please can you advise how best to return the vehicle?" Thanks in advance!
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Santander Card/Loan


biscuits42
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biscuit, they are not entitled to see bank statements, bills etc. Only a court can insist on seeing those and the Bank wouldnt be privy to the information even then.

 

I havent heard of Viking Services and you are right to not speak to them on the phone. How do you know for sure that they have been asked by Santander to contact you ?

 

Until you receive a copy of the agreement, then there is no proof of liability.

 

Just one thing, are you still continuing to pay them ?

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Ah, right.

 

TBH, I am not quite sure what to advise you to do. Will try and get you some assistance.

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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This morning I have received a letter from Viking Collection Services debt enforcement dept... which, uncannily, has the same address as Santander! So it would appear that it is an in-house DCA. They have demanded payment in full within 7 days. I have attached a copy of the letter. My thoughts are that I should just write informing them that I am disputing the account until Santander fulfill the SAR... is this right?

 

viking1.jpg

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You cannot put an account into dispute due to SAR non compliance.

 

I note steven4064 has commented earlier that the agreement is enforceable.

 

You will need to write again to Sanatander, re-iterate that you are unable to make full repayments and invite them to read the OFT's guidelines on Debt Collection

Edited by supasnooper
addition

 

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I've sent them a subject access request as the agreement they sent me is for the now non-existent storecard I used to hold with Debenhams. They closed it and changed it to a Mastercard a few years ago but Santander have not provided the agreement for the current account - ie the Mastercard one.

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I've now received a letter from them in response to my SAR letter (in whch I stated that I was requesting it as I was concerned that my initial request for a copy of the original agreement only got me a copy of the agreement for the storecard account, not the mastercard account). They haven't sent me any info (or cashed my cheque) but have said that they provided the correct information in response to s78 as they only "upgraded" the account to a mastercard so this is covered under FSA guidelines. Does anyone know whether this is correct, or whether they're just trying to pull the wool over my eyes by quoting lots of legal jargon at me.

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I've now received a letter from them in response to my SAR letter (in whch I stated that I was requesting it as I was concerned that my initial request for a copy of the original agreement only got me a copy of the agreement for the storecard account, not the mastercard account). They haven't sent me any info (or cashed my cheque) but have said that they provided the correct information in response to s78 as they only "upgraded" the account to a mastercard so this is covered under FSA guidelines. Does anyone know whether this is correct, or whether they're just trying to pull the wool over my eyes by quoting lots of legal jargon at me.

 

They are attempting to pull the wool over your eyes. The Mastercard would obviously have more benefits than the storecard ie.. You would be able to use it anywhere. Whereas the storecard would be restricted to a store or group.

 

IMHO, I dont think you should have explained WHY you wanted the SAR, it isnt necessary in any case. You may well find that you have difficulty getting them to send stuff to you now.

 

Therefore, a new agreement and terms and conditions should have been issued.. IMHO.

 

Also, the Subject Access Request is a request for ALL data pertaining to you. They do not have to provide a copy of the agreement under the DPA1998 and the ICO will not support you if they fail to provide one as part of the SAR.

 

The DPA request is independant of the CCA1974 request and shouldnt be confused.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks CitizenB. I've just checked and I sent two letters within a couple of days of each other, one a straightforward SAR from the link you posted, and the other was from another template and was sent as a complaint that the account number on the CCA received was no longer a valid account, and advising them I needed an appropriate CCA for the curent Mastercard account.

 

Their reply is obviously to the complaint and there's the usual blurb about what constitutes a "true copy" under s78. Then they state the following:

"The account number quoted on the agreement of 6*****5 was the original account number you were supplied when you opened the account. In June 2006 a letter was sent to you advising you had been selected for an upgrade to a new Debenhams account card and a card bearing the new account number was subsequently sent to you. By activating the card you accepted the upgrade.

When upgrading an account it is not a requirement for a new application form to be completed and this has full Financial Services Authority approval. I can therefore confirm that the agreement that you have been provided with is the correct agreement for this account."

 

My problem with the above is that no-one was disputing whether or not a new application form should have been completed... but whether the prescribed terms of the storecard were sufficiently different to those of the Mastercard so as to require a new account and CCA. I suspect the quote about FSA approval has been added to try and make it look like the whole thing is completely ok by the FSA. This just makes me suspicious so I will ignore the letter for now and remind them that they only have x days left to comply with the SAR. I can then see whether or not anything in the SAR shows that the original account was closed. If so I will assume that a new CCA would have been necessary. What do you think?

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I doubt the FSA would help you:) However, you could try either the FOS or the OFT.

 

I think if there were significant changes/alterations to the prescribed terms and terms and conditions a modifying agreement SHOULD have been provided.

 

You would be able to withdraw cash on a Mastercard but not on a store card. There are significant differences.

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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These demands from Viking are just daft.... they're obviously the same people as Santander - same address, same people, one even forgetting for a moment exactly which she was calling from - so why they bother sending letters demanding payment in full within 7 days is beyond me... they've already had enough letters telling them we can't afford minimum payment so where do they think we'll find the full balance? They've now sent one for the Asda loan.

I read something in the OFT guidelines that when a company passes on a debt, they have to pass on enough information to avoid repetition... surely if I have to go back to square one and send the information I've already sent Santander that we can't pay the minimum payment, then they're not working within the guidelines, as they should already have this info from Santander across the desk? Or am I barking up the wrong tree.

I wouldn't mind, but I only want them to accept the token payment for 6-12mths til we're back on our feet then we can go back to sensible payments! All our other creditors were happy to help!

 

We have also noticed that the default notices sent by Santander did not have a resolution date on them - just stated that arrears must be paid within 14 days of receipt of the letter, which I gather is a bit naughty.

Edited by biscuits42
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We have also noticed that the default notices sent by Santander did not have a resolution date on them - just stated that arrears must be paid within 14 days of receipt of the letter, which I gather is a bit naughty.

 

It certainly is:D You may never receive the letter ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Can anyone confirm whether the 40 days quoted in a SAR includes service time? If so, Santander have about 3 days to comply, if not time is up tomorrow. If they don't get service time and if I don't receive the results of my SAR request tomorrow, what is the next step?

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Can anyone please advise what the next step is if a creditor fails to comply with a subject access request within the 40 day limit?

 

Hi ibscuits, if you sent the original request via Special or recorded delivery then you can check on the RM website and see when it was delivered. You then count 40 calendar days from the date of receipt and that is when you should have the data in your possession by.

 

If not, then you can send them a Letter before Action. This gives a further 7-14 days before which you will a) take them to court or b) make an official complaint to the Information Commissioner.

 

This is the process when you take them to court...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/208966-me-them-sar-non.html

 

 

Short thread but successful outcome. :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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The second account under Santander, for the Asda loan, has since been passed to Viking also, and we have today received a demand for payment of the account in full. The OFT guidelines for fair practice during debt collection state that it is unreasonable to expect a debtor to repeatedly send the same information regarding a debt when it is passed from one party to another - does this mean that when the debt was transferred from Santander to Viking (ie across to the next desk!) they should have transferred with it all my previous correspondence explaining why we cannot make the minimum payments? If so is it reasonable and fair for them to be demanding full payment in the knowledge that we can't even afford the minimum payment?

 

For the Debenhams account, they replied to my SAR 2 days after the deadline with a letter saying that they complied with it on the 23rd of December, despite the fact that the £10.00 cheque was never cashed and I have received nothing but yet another letter demanding an income and expenditure form be completed - from Santander, not Viking... even though they claim to have already passed the debt to Viking!

 

Like a wally, I forgot to send the original SAR by recorded delivery (I was sending lots of letters and just stamped and posted them all without thinking that one should go to PO) so I just assumed that with the cheque not being cashed, it had either got lost or been ignored - maybe they realised it wasn't recorded so dumped it. So I've sent a second one via recorded delivery.

I received the letter saying that they'd already complied with it on the same day they received my second request (checked POD) so I know it's in response to the original one.... so why didn't they cash the cheque if they think they've sent the information??

And to top it all off they've sent ANOTHER income and expenditure form despite me writing twice already to tell them I'm not completing one as it's not a requirement! GRR!

 

They end the letter with the line "I trust this clarifies the situation."

 

No it bloomin' well does not!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok... I need some advice now as I'm not sure how to proceed (although I expect it will involve a lengthy letter).

 

Following my Subject Access Request to Santander re: the Debenhams card account (storecard opened in April '99, converted to mastercard June '06 and reissued with a third account number in April '09)... I've received a package today stating that the contents were originally posted to me on 23rd Dec 09 so they've returned my second cheque (but haven't cashed the first yet). They've sent me the following stating on the letter that the DPA only requires them to send information that they hold!

 

-Two copies of the original application at the beginning of this thread

-A set of Asda card T&Cs

-Two copies of "Notes" from the most recent account number but dating from 04/07/06-23/12/09 (Do not include details of most of the letters sent to and forth, and only two of the multitudes of phonecalls - also no mention of the account being passed to Viking)

-Three copies of transaction lists for the most recent account number (again dating from July 06-Dec 09)

-Three copies of transaction lists for the storecard account number from July 05-Dec 09 (it was opened in 1999!)

-A copy of the storecard account statements (Nov 03-Jun 06)

-A copy of the mastercard statements for original mastercard account number (July 06 - April 09)

-Two copies of the mastercard statements for the most recent account number for Oct and Nov 09 only.

-Two copies of the same 'Notice of Sums in Arrears'

 

They claim to have included all the information they hold and have also included a copy of the letter they say was sent on 23rd Dec 09 in response to my original SAR request. On this it states they have sent:

- Credit Agreement

- T&Cs

- List of Transactions

- Copy Statements

- DSA Form (although not sure what this is so don't know if I've been sent it)

- Notes

 

They then list 17 separate months between Aug 04 and Sept 09 for which they are unable to provide statements, stating that the data is not available.

 

My main concern is that I've changed my address 4 times since taking out the card and none of this is recorded on the notes, I've had my card changed 'due to suspected security breach on the account' and this isn't in the notes, I've had the card changed from storecard to mastercard and this isn't mentioned once in all of the paperwork sent to me. In my original request I asked for copies of all correspondence and have received nothing. I'm assuming the many duplicates are to pad out the envelope to make it look like they've sent me loads, when in actual fact there's little or no real information here! What do I need to do next?

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Hope someone can help with this as it's getting more tangled the more I look at it!

 

Please tell me if any of it doesn't make sense :D

 

I've now noticed that the letter they claim was sent with the original SAR response in Dec 09 states:

"With regard to the default notice I have provided you with the Notice of Default Sums and Notice of Sums in Arrears. I can see your account has not defaulted however there are numerous later payments recorded"

 

Firstly they've sent two copies of the Notice of Default Sums, but no copy of the Notice of Sums in Arrears - are these the same thing? Are Santander just trying to confuse me?

 

And secondly, if they're stating in this letter that my account has not defaulted, why have they issue me with a DN (albeit a faulty one). I've made my token payments regularly on the promised date every month even though they have yet to acknowledge or accept my offer.

 

Confused ??? Me ???? Course not :-?

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So, Santander have taken over the accounts (both of them) from the original lender who were Debenham and Asda, is that correct ?

 

Santander will only be able to provide you with information that they have from the time they took the accounts over.

 

In which case if any of the information missing is from before the date Santander acquired the accounts you will need to request that information from the original lenders.

 

There should be something like a diary of events/ call log type sheet. This should detail everything that has happened ie if they telephoned you, letters sent, etc. If they havent kept hard copies of letters then how will they know they sent you a Letter on such and such a date ?

 

Your personal information should be recorded accurately, so if it isnt then that is a breach of the Data Protection Act. If it isnt accurate then they are not reporting it accurately.

 

So you need to ask to see some indication that they have amended your details when requested.

 

IMHO I would write back and say that no information was provided to you in December. Remember that was the time of postal disputes and very bad weather.. this information could have been lost.

 

Say they didnt cash your cheque number, dated.. so you find it strange they would have provided information without the fee.

 

Tell them you want the items they say they sent out in December - resent. You dont have that information and you want it.

 

See what happens

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