Redbridge Council DYL PCN's

[Spanner79]

Hi,

 

Just wondered if I had any grounds for the following. Issued with a PCN from Redbridge council for being over a double yellow (about 1-2 feet). Wasn't obstructing anything as it is a big road etc.

 

Anything I can check before paying?

 

Also I no longer own the car...would this change anything?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Spanner

[lamma]

re the over the yellow lines - no. re ownership changing since the PCN - no. But for all PCNs, the wording of the PCN (and NTO if it get to that), the signs and lines and the Traffic Order are always in play until dismissed.

[Spanner79]

I thought that was the case but no harm in checking. The wording looks correct so I'd better go and pay it...

 

Thanks Anyway

[lamma]

'looks' correct ? is it or isn't it ? is the signage okay. does the traffic order actually cover the location ? etc.

[Spanner79]

Hi,

 

Some help needed.

 

Can someone please confirm the enforceability [sic] of double yellow lines when they are not "blocked off" at either end?

 

Thanks

 

Spanner79

[Jamberson]

Technically not enforceable but enforced anyway. It hardly matters to you as a driver, so they tend to be enforced as the discrepancy is trivial. You know there are yellow lines there, and you know what they are for.

[sailor sam]

Hi,

 

Take a look here which may help.

 

How to appeal unfair parking and loading tickets - Ticketfighter.co.uk

 

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[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Technically not enforceable but enforced anyway. It hardly matters to you as a driver, so they tend to be enforced as the discrepancy is trivial. You know there are yellow lines there, and you know what they are for.

 

If that was accurate why do councils need TROs/TMOs?

 

If the yellow lines are not in accordance with the regulatons and/or the TRO/TMO then any PCN can be appealed against.

 

If what you are saying is that if this is the sole point of appeal there is a risk that it may be seen as a trivial point then that is true but it also depends on the adjudicator in question and how the case is presented.

[Jamberson]

If that was accurate why do councils need TROs/TMOs?

 

You know why - to give them legal authority to enforce.

 

If the yellow lines are not in accordance with the regulatons and/or the TRO/TMO then any PCN can be appealed against.

 

Yes it can. You can appeal on any basis you like.

 

Sailor Sam posted a link - it explains in more detail the point I was making.

[lamma]

TRO defines the contravention. You do not contravene the lines you contravene the TRO. If the TRO is useless or wrong no contravention. A TRO doesn't create any legal authority as I undertand it, that comes for the ACTs and CPE application being granted persuant to them.

[Jamberson]

Yes, I agree lamma. The legal authority comes via the application process to run decriminalised parking. But as you say, no TRO, no contravention = no right to enforce a PCN.

[lamma]

the authority comes from the Acts (1984 RTRA and 2004 TMA). the application results in permission conditional on the council signing off the all its TROs and signs and lines are in order and supplying other information. As we know these applications get signed by councils who have doine nothing at all about getting these things in order. You or I did that and started taking millions from the public and we go to jail.

[Spanner79]

Hi All,

 

Firstly a cautionary note, I appealed 4 x Parking tickets for parking on a double yellow that was highly damaged and had no T bars at either end.

 

The problem I have is that I did not receive the letter informing me that my appeal had failed from the adjudicator and have since received 4 letters asking for £150 for each offence. I called the council (Redbridge) who informed me that my appeals had failed. I then explained that I didn't receive the response and they suggested I send in £100 per ticket along with a letter explaining this and they "should" accept this.

 

What I need to know is what is the likelyhood that they will accept and what should I put in a letter to ensure that they should accept and if not will not cash the cheque and ask for the remainder?

 

Anyone's help would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Chris

[Spanner79]

Hi All,

 

Firstly a cautionary note, I appealed 4 x Parking tickets for parking on a double yellow that was highly damaged and had no T bars at either end and had my appeals rejected as I was accused (rightly though) that I had sought to gain advantage with a technicality.

 

The problem I have is that I did not receive the letter informing me that my appeal had failed from the adjudicator and have since received 4 letters asking for £150 for each offence. I called the council (Redbridge) who informed me that my appeals had failed. I then explained that I didn't receive the response and they suggested I send in £100 per ticket along with a letter explaining this and they "should" accept this.

 

What I need to know is what is the likelyhood that they will accept and what should I put in a letter to ensure that they should accept and if not will not cash the cheque and ask for the remainder?

 

Anyone's help would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Chris

[GuidoT]

I do not know if they will accept such.

 

Say in the letter that encloses the cheque that if they cash the cheque they are accepting the payment in full and final settlement of the tickets. If they do not accept the sum in full and final settlement then the cheque should be returned.

[Jamberson]

You can do one of two things: Get an agreement from them that they will cancel the extra part of the charge in writing, then send a cheque. (Remember each PCN is seperate so get all PCNs quoted in writing.)

 

Or, if they won't do that, you can wait until an Order for Recovery is issued on each one, then file a Statutory Declaration on the grounds that you appealed to the adjudicator but had no reply. Provided you do this in the normal timescales, they will be compelled to revert the cases - and you can pay them then.

[Al27]

No, don't start trying to do deals with the council because you'll just get stung when they turn round and demand the extra.

 

You need to make a statutory declaration:

 

Schedule 6, 8(2) sets out the grounds upon which a motorist may swear a statutory declaration:

i) The motorist did not receive a Notice to Owner from the local authority.

ii) The motorist made representations against the Notice to Owner but did not receive a rejection notice from the local authority.

iii) The motorist made an appeal to the parking adjudicator but received no response to the appeal.

In all cases, a valid statutory declaration causes the debt registration and the Charge Certificate to be revoked.

In respect of ground (i) the local authority may resend a Notice to Owner.

In respect of grounds (ii) and (iii), Schedule 6 8.-(7) requires the local authority to refer the matter to the parking adjudicator:

“who may give such direction as he considers appropriate”.

[Spanner79]

But if it then gets referred back would it not possibly mean I end up paying more anyway if the adjudicator decides so?

 

It was the council that said I could pay the £100 per ticket when I called them and it wasn't a deal I tried to make with them. Surely this would help.

 

I kind of reluctantly accept paying the £100 per ticket but don't want to pay anymore...

[Jamberson]

You can do one of two things: Get an agreement from them that they will cancel the extra part of the charge in writing, then send a cheque. (Remember each PCN is seperate so get all PCNs quoted in writing.)

 

Or, if they won't do that, you can wait until an Order for Recovery is issued on each one, then file a Statutory Declaration on the grounds that you appealed to the adjudicator but had no reply. Provided you do this in the normal timescales, they will be compelled to revert the cases - and you can pay them then. It won't get "refered back" and the adjudicator won't be involved again.

[Spanner79]

So if I wait then I get the chance to formally say that I didn't receive the decision or will I have to somehow prove this (not sure how I could do that anyway).

 

When you say revert back does that mean they'll just reconfirm the decision but give me time to pay at the unpenalised rate?

 

Is there any danger at all that they will try and make me pay the £150 per pcn if I follow this within reasonable timescales?

 

Thanks for your help to date...

[Jamberson]

If you file stat decs, you do not have to prove your case. They are usually accepted at face value, provided they are in time. It would be most unusual for them to contest them.

 

By "revert back" I mean, you will be issued with a new NTO at the original rate (not the discount though - the rate of the original PCN, which is what the adjudicator would have ruled anyway).

 

There's no danger they would try and make you pay £150, so long as you submit the paperwork correctly then pay when you need to.